New collector looking for guidance
Pedzola
Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
New member here, first post. Looking for some collecting guidance.
I started purchasing bullion items back around 2008. Despite being far underwater on most of this accumulation today I have always thoight of it as an investment rather than a collection.
Over the past year I've started trying to organize a little more, trading up some misc bullion for US gold type coins and some modern commems. But have been learning a lot and getting more interested in collecting numismatics vs bullion, and also put together a couple of very rudimentary type sets of 20th century circulating coinage.
After lurking on this forum a while I thought it might be time time to start a proper collection of graded coins, and thought I'd ask for some input.
1) Focus - I would like to focus on 20th century coins, probably including gold. I am drawn to the 1920's era. What are the easiest type sets to assemble in high grade and what is unobtanium? I realize this may depend on budget. To provide a boundary, I might put my budget around $5k/year. It would be very tough for me to justify spending that annual budget on just 1 or 2 coins.
2) Purchasing - I do almost all my purchasing online. For my very limited ungraded type sets ive used mostly ebay and in some cases have received coins that were not accurately represented in auction pictures. For graded coins is ebay the best bet? As a novice I'm wary of fakes, i may not be able to tell the difference. There is one reputable dealer I have purchased from but he is an hour drive away and not open on weekends, so not really someone i can visit often. I have never been to a coin show, are they worthwhile? How are ebay prices vs local shops and shows?
3) Any other resources I should be using? How do i find out what is rare vs common?
Looking forward to learning a lot more and kicking off a collection. I appreciate all the knowledge of the community here.
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You should open an account at Heritage Auctions and Great Collections to purchase coins. I use many sources to buy coins eBay, Dealers, Auction Houses, Coin Shows Use auction realized prices as your base for coin value and it really does not matter what sales outlet you use to purchase coins. If you use eBay, sign up for eBay Bucks as it can add an extra 6% to 10% to your buying dollars.
Whatever your interest is in, study auction realized prices especially if it's a significant amount of money.
Don't go by price guides alone as they can be deceiving.
Download the photograde app.
We all have paid tuition in this hobby but as long as you learn from your mistakes then you will be fine in the long run.
Thanks for the quick feedback. I am very new at this.
I have never looked at great collections or heritage auctions until just now. I will familiarize myself w/them.
For realized auction values is there a consolidated source of info for this or am i looking at ended auctions from ebay and the other 2 all separately?
The price guides you refer to - where would i find those? Sorry for the dumb questions. Ive only ever looked at ebay prices and major bullion dealers like apmex. Thanks.
I will search for photograde....
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Check out CoinFacts.com (provided by pcgs) for great info about coins you’re interested in, with recent auction prices.
Welcome, and good luck! Don’t hesitate to come back here often with your questions.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Pick up a Red Book of US coins. It has a price guide that is too high, but it is a handy reference book.
PCGS Coin Facts will provide realized auction prices of the different auctions. You have to do your own math to put a auction realized value on the coin that you want to buy.
If you can stomach the ups and downs of bullion runs and come out the other side still interested in collecting, then you have what it takes!
Def get to as many coin shows as you can. It will give you a sense as to what is on the market and if issues are scarce or not. It’s a great overview and a super way to study coin condition and grading by seeing lots of coins in person.
Ana summer seminars are worth the time and money imo. It puts you face to face with experts and insiders. Good things rub off.
As far as online goes, what helped me the most was learning how to photograph coins myself. 10k shots will teach you something. I’m not the best by any means, but it taught me how to read photos I see online.
I installed the pcgs photograde and coinfacts apps and both look like they will be super helpful. Had no idea these existed - THANK YOU.
Coinfacts app has a ton of info im looking forward to digging in more.
And yes spot price and premium swings in au/ag can be tough to stomach. For this next collection I will plan carefully and only buy to keep.
Still determining what to get into. I thought it might be interesting to do a single year date set, for example, all circulating coins issued in 1926.
Problem is i think not all were minted every year. Even sticking with the entire decade of the 20's, it would be painful to pay 10x for a nice walking half vs a 40's example.
Other options maybe a first year or last year collection.
Will keep doing my research!
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Do you know about messages I sent you one? Welcome to the board.
Use Heritage Auction results for these two classic 20th Century type coins.
1) 1913-P Buffalo 5c in MS66
2) 1917 type 1 25c MS64FH (bright, natural)
By the time you're done, you'll have the price research and image discrimination tools well in hand
Consider gold and silver commems. It’s a cool series and dirt cheap right now.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Pedzola....Welcome aboard. Your collection will be best addressed by what excites you... that way, you have fun and build a collection of value. Good luck, Cheers, RickO
Gluggo got your message thanks!
Colonel, good suggestion, both those coins are on my short list.
Eureka, I want to get an Oregon Trail commem. There may be a couple others but that one really sticks out to me.
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Then you do have "the eye." I just read ...somewhere... in the last couple months that many consider THAT one to be the most beautiful US coin.
I think I agree.
I sold my High Relief $20 gold that is ...traditionally... named as the most beautiful, but I kept my Oregon.
Something about the representation of the westward movement in US history.
Bold and well executed design in my opinion.
Welcome, have fun posting ask questions before you buy. I find the more I look the more I learn go to auctions sites you will find all kinds of stuff that you can look for that sells for good $$$$ it will give you a sense of what collectors are looking for and what sells for good $$$$.
There is so much to look for you just need to find your neck. I try to be well rounded so what ever comes my way I will be able to make money on it if I sell it. Then it starts all over again take that $$$ and buy again till you get what you really want.
It's one way to off set you buy's I can be here for ever talking but do the one thing 1st look around there is no charge for that and you will pick up on what most here do and it's FREE. Be safe and have fun.
Hoard the keys.
Welcome to the best numismatic school @Pedzola .... be diligent with raw coins and share your curiosity with the experts here.
I am still learning myself and will follow your learning curve 
Have FUN!
A coin shop closed on Saturdays. Wow, that is the busiest day of the week for retail, and usually the bread and butter for small local shops. He must do really well the rest of the week.
Visit as many shows as you can, and ask lots of questions. Not all certified coins are the same - you can have two MS65's of the same coin, but one will have a better strike, and one will have better luster, and those two pluses might be on the same coin. It is a buyer's market right now, so be picky. Welcome!
Hi @Pedzola , your story reads a lot like mine. I too am a "stacker". Buying bullion turned into buying pre 64 junk, turned into trying to find cheap silver dollars, turned into paying attention to condition and years, ect ect ect. I bought this years giant red book and read and read and read. Now I'm ordering more books. Im researching online every day and reading as much as I can on this site. It's really been a fun ride so far. I still love my modern silver but the old stuff is sucking me in. Nice to see someone else with a story like mine.
If you're ....BRAND NEW at collecting, I'd add that ANY raw coins you might want to take a chance on be very low priced and something that you are getting "just because."
I started collecting way before slabs but would not ...start..... with any raw coins now.
Don't be in a hurry. If you are buying for type (single example of each) you can afford to be picky and just buy coins that reach out and grab you! Good luck with the hunt!
Thanks all for the warm welcome and tips. At the risk of creating more competition for myself
I think I have an initial list of coins to search for...
1909 Lincoln vdb
1913 Buffalo Type 1
1916 Mercury FB
1917 SLQ Type 1 FH
1917 WLH
1921 Peace
1926 Oregon Trail
1908 St. Gaudens NM
1911 $10 Indian
1909-D $5 Indian
1908 $2.5 Indian
All more common dates at or near issue. Would hope to pick all these up in ms64 or better.
And yes the Oregon Trail may have to be the #1 pickup, agree on the design, certainly inspired.
Plus, one of the greatest computer games of all time. The oxen on the coin appear to have survived fording the river.
An important question for everyone - what is the deal with toning?
I might be stirring the pot with this, but I think I prefer coins that look as "new" as possible (shiny silver with original patina, not cleaned). I dont understand the draw of coloration, is it not an artifact of improper handling/storage?
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Maybe should just leave the toning thing as "personal preference." I will probably stay away from rainbow colors.
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You have gotten so much great advice here @Pedzola that there's hardly anything I can add except to say coin shows can be daunting the first time in but man are they fun.
Chances are there will be a member or member dealer or two at any one you can get to.
I wish the CoinFacts app was around when I got started.
Boy did I overpay on more than on occasion.
The CoinFacts realized auction prices feature is a tool you can use judiciously (yeah, sign up for Heritage and Great Collections for sure).
Sometimes especially eye appealing coins need to be paid up for and the guide /realized pricing is irrelevant.
Sometimes an anxious bidder would have overpaid for a dog.
Enjoy your stay and
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Coins with eye appeal and orginal skin are desirable and very collectible. I started off collecting the shinny mint like silver coins as I became a more experienced collector my taste changed to toned coins with orginal skin and eye appeal.
I'm fairly new as well and have received a ton of great advice here on the boards. I love toning as well, but I discovered very quickly that Artificial vs Natural toning is something that even experts can't agree on. I tried to pick out coins I liked and showed them to the vets here. I was wrong every single time! I finally gave up in finding my own toned coins and only purchase already slabbed ones from people that specialize in them.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
When buying coins from non-ebay auctions, pay very close attention to fees, shipping, and taxes.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
If you buy from Ebay you should bring a picture here lots of good people who can tell if its a counterfit or if its shady ebayer. Lots of posters here have busted hundred of Fake Ebayers selling bogus coins. In fact its scary how many there are out there selling at will day after day after day!
Welcome, this forum has many experienced collectors you can learn from with trusting advice, most of all enjoy the hobby.☺️
This is probably the safest route.
But it is worth saying relative to your previous comment: with the exception of 0.999 gold and platinum and palladium, all other metals and alloys will tone over time in the presence of just air. It is not a question of mishandling, unless you believeall coins should onlybe stored in a vacuum.
I think it was already mentioned but I would urge you to get a red book. It has a ton of info in it and is a great reference tool
@Pedzola Welcome aboard!!!
It looks like you would have the start of a good US type set looking at your list.
Good Luck and Happy Collecting, Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
READ READ READ before you spend spend spend....don't make the same mistake I and many others have made.
Don't quote me on that.
Welcome
Is this the red book in question?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0794845711/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_-KCNBbV5HANGV
Spent some time researching today. Really dont care for great collections or heritage auctions websites. I will probably stay away.
Looked for a handful of coins from the list I posted on ebay and couldnt find anything I would buy. I am taking Friday off from work, maybe ill have time to visit the dealer and see what he's got.
Looks like it'll probably be a while before I make any progress on the list. Will keep trying to absorb as much info as possible so I can recognize a special coin or good deal when I do come across one.
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Buy from reputable dealers... and be patient. Buying certified coins is smart because you can verify authenticity. Welcome aboard.
Yes that is the red book.
Your want list looks like a solid start to a 20th century Type set, thats a good choice.
Be sure to use the search option on this forum as well, tons of good topics and insights.
What a great list, I really like it as a 20th Century type collector myself. I hope you have good luck with your acquisitions and I encourage you to look for coins with original surfaces. I would include a red\brown MS Indian Head cent as well but that's just a personal preference for myself.
The important thing is you understand their auction realized prices, and you know where they are if you need to search for that hard to find coin. The auction houses can be an excelent place to buy key dates.
On the 1921 Peace Dollar, I challange you to find a PCGS MS64 with a full strike and atttractive toning at a fair price. If you take the challange, you will soon learn what it is like to find that hard to find coin. If you find it, you will have a very collectable coin,
You picked a great time to put your foot in the water. Modern technology making buying much easier, pricing is so much better for really rare or nice coins. Yes, get an education here on the boards by wondering what the heck someone is talking about and then, go figure it out. Best of Luck from Sol aka Michael
Welcome!
You've come to the right place. You sound like the sort of collector who is poised to have a tremendous amount of fun with this. Learning and education are the real key to successfully participate when you're buying coins worth more than a trivial amount.
Much good advice has already been given here. You indicate a preference for 20th Century coins which I think is fantastic! A 20th Century type set, along with a collection of Peace dollars was my initial goal. I started with a similar budget to yours. $5k/year is plenty to allow for a respectable collection within a short time. As you've already mentioned, buying certified, slabbed coins is important if you don't KNOW ins and outs of authentication and grading. There are tons of junk, fraud, monkeyed-with coins, and counterfeits on the market.
As you get going, you'll realize soon that even slabbed coins come in oh-so-nice! and hum-drum boring pieces, even in the same grade.
You asked about toning....... Big subject. It's an acquired taste for most collectors, but one that really tastes GOOD once you get familiar with it. Lots of coins were dipped to remove toning (or tarnish) at one point in their lives. It was all the rage to collect WHITE coins at different times and many coins saw the dip bucket. Sadly, each trip removes a layer of metal, diminishes luster, and generally accelerates the destruction of the surface. Coins with an age-appropriate patina are really desirable to many collectors, especially when paired with nice luster. Here, too, there is a world of problems with many actors artificially coloring coins. Sometimes their work is really good (market acceptable, but generally frowned-upon) and sometimes they just ruin nice coins to make a buck.
For me, a basic 20th Century type set is a great place to start and it's easy to add the gold issues. The most expensive coins in the basic set would include the Barber Half Dollar and 1921 Peace dollar. No worries, as nice mint-state examples of both are completely affordable in your budget. With the gold, you can collect type examples at a high grade, or at a grade that is only modestly above bullion value.
Heritage? yes. Great collections? yes. Ebay? no (with exceptions). Dealers? yes, once you meet some of the good ones! Shows? YES! They're fun and you'll be exposed to tens of thousands of coins in one place. Lot viewing at a big auction is another way to get great exposure to large numbers of coins.
Finally, yes, a shout-out to the Oregon Trail which was initiated by a doctor in Pocatello, Idaho. I live a few miles from the trail and our local youth belong to the Oregon Trail Rec District. It's a gorgeous design. Take your time and find a nice one.
Welcome to the madness. It's addictive.
Click on my sigline below to see my 20th Century type set. I initially completed the whole thing for <$10k, but have upgraded it gradually over the years.
The 20th century is a reasonable place to start although my interests have always been on older coins. There are a lot of wonderful designs that were introduced starting in 1907 when President Theodore Roosevelt contracted with Augustus St. Gaudens to re-design the $10 and $20 gold pieces. The 1907 High Relief $20 gold is beyond your price range, but carefully selected examples of the $10 Indian and $20 St. Gaudens are within you budget. Beyond that are the Bella Prat $2.50 and $5.00. The $2.50 gold coin is reasonably priced in MS-64 or so. The $5 gold is quite a bit tougher.
Beyond that you have the Buffalo Nickel, Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter, Walking Liberty Half Dollar and the Peace Dollars. All of them can be purchased in Mint State at reasonable prices. You might like the 1920s, but that era was marked with higher priced coins and some less than perfectly made issues. Perhaps you could open up to consider the pieces from the 1940s, which cost less. The 1942 Proof set offers a treasury trove of type coins with the 1942 War Nickel, Mercury Dime and Walking Liberty half dollar leading the way. If you really want to study the history of these coins from this era, I would recommend “Renaissance of American Coinage” in three volumes by Roger Burdette.
As for the other types, the later ones are fairly easy to find. The earlier types, Indian Cent, Barber coins and the Morgan Dollar all range from a bit expensive to cheap for a Mint State Morgan Dollar.
I am not a big fan of eBay fan. There are too may pitfalls there, including counterfeits, over graded coins and catfishes who don’t always deliver what they advertise. I am a big fan of establishing good relationships with honest dealers. You can do that with some of the dealers who use eBay, but placing bids indiscriminately there can get you into trouble.
Given you budget, I would say that auctions should be your second or third resort. The material you are buying simply does not justify paying the outrageous buyers’ fees that the major auction houses now impose. There are a couple of on-line houses that don’t charge buyers’ fees, but I won’t mention them here. PM me if you want names.
You should go some coin shows. The large ones offer a large selection of coins, especially in the areas that now interest you. Go with a list of what you want to buy, however. You will be totally overwhelmed if you go into a big show without having done some homework.
Local shops can be good but limiting. To really serve you with coins that you will keep and not be looking to upgrade, you need to find a dealer who has the capital and interest to offer better quality coins.
Buy a Red Book. (A Guide Book of United Sates Coins). The prices listed there are no up to date, but it will give you a lot of history and a lot of information about what the better dates are. Beyond that, magazines like "COINage" can provide you with some interesting information.
Welcome! After reading all the replies you've gotten so far, I can only say "I agree" and will add -have fun!
Thank you again. I found a big regional coin show coming up in November so I will try to make that a target to acquire at least 1 or 2 off my list.
As for the ms64 1921 Peace challenge - I found this one on ebay. Any commentary?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332804676864
I looked up the pcgs cert (34763595) for better pictures. Also see it sold for a little less in 2 other actions already this year.
Price guide says 725. Looks ok but doesnt blow me away. I have seen nicer peace dollars, I feel like 1921 "high relief" should have a little more impact.
Im going to go order that red book, but loving the pcgs coinfacts and cert lookup apps!
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BryceM thanks for the toning explainer. Also your type set is fantastic. Your SLQ is amazing and may change my thinking on toning. Thanks for sharing.
And yeah whats the deal with barbers? Boring coins with crazy prices. I will be working on my partial type set for a while, will worry about barbers when I run out of better coins to buy!
Also, going to add that indian head cent to the list. It is more attractive than the Lincoln but was going to exclude it as a product of an earlier era. Might as well add it to the list. I think it will be relatively easy to find a nice one.
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That’s because that one is a sorta average piece for the grade. Not bad, but not all that great. Take a look at the Heritage Auctions Archives (as another suggested) and you’ll see what I mean. Most 21’s go around 600 to 700, but then there’s the really nice ones that go for 1000 and up. Some of those are likely two guys getting into it and some are be speculated as upgrades to 65, but most are really nice pieces bringing what really nice pieces bring.
I disagree that the auction premium is not worth it. I simply bid what I’m gonna bid including “the juice.” If you do that and pick nice quality, you can often buy below what a dealer will charge. Plus, you’ll generally have a lot more to choose from in the large auctions.
I would caution you against buying common coins. Common coins are common coins and will always be so. When the market dips, they fall the most and take the longest to recover. Do yourself a big favor and buy the rarer pieces. They’re always in demand and when the market rises, they go up the most. A few rare coins is far better than a hoard of commons.
I am debating this advice, buying rare examples vs common. It would be nice if the collection appreciates in value, but my motivation isnt competition or investment return. I think I just want nice examples to keep and enjoy and show others what old coins used to look like.
If the market dives, maybe I upgrade or expand the collection. Buy the dips, right?
In fact, I was just debating the opposite - should I replace a couple items on my list with more common dates? Like the walking half - would be much cheaper to find a nice example from the 40's.
And actually I just found a nice looking 1937 oregon trail on ebay that seems to be priced right. I was going for a 1926 but this might be my first pickup. Going to eat dinner and if its still here in an hour maybe buy.
Nobody here us going to swipe it from me if I post a link, right? Opinions?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382563737998
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You know, that's my motivation for collecting. I do not need to collect the best, but that's just me. Everyone's motivation is a bit different.
That '37 Oregon is a nice looking coin at a fair price. It's got everything I would look for in this issue. Enjoy.
Thanks for the 2nd. Got it! It's all downhill from here.
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Nice coin. I remember back in the 90’s when they went like 600 to a G during “commem madness.”
As you can see Pedzola lots of sage advice. I would use the analogy of my peach tree orchard .
When I started, I really didn't know what I wanted to do but I knew I wanted to grow some fruit of my own. I started by buying a bunch of different trees and planting them. As I learned more about Peaches I looked for better varieties that fit my taste. I marveled that I could walk thru my trees and see thousands of peaches and I was happy. Lots and lots of 1 to 2 inch peaches everywhere. One spring a late frost killed a bunch of blossoms and I worked hard to save what I could but I lost about 70% of my blossoms meaning no blossoms, no fruit. The 30 % fruited and I had a few very large, very sweet, very very good peaches. Now I cull the blossoms in the spring by 50% so I get the best peaches in the area. 3 Inches , soft, red, full of sweet sugary juice.
The point being, You don't know what strikes your fantasy until you've made the trip. Enjoy it. Buy what strikes you. Along the way you'll get more knowledge of what you really like because you've held it in your hand and gazed upon it. Your money won't be wasted, You will buy some and pay too much and sell some and get less than you paid, but you'll develop your tastes.
Personally, I would rather have just 1 really perfect peach than 500 just OK peaches.
Last year I started with 10 boxes of PCGS certified and 8 boxes of NGC certified coins and a bunch of albums. As I traveled around the U.S. in my Motor Home, they were shifted from shelf to storage bin to shelf. I decided to sell or trade everything to get down to my BOX of 20. Looking for the best available of a few select coins that I just will probably hold in my folded hands in my casket.
Man what a trip but along the way, I have accumulated a few really choice Gems that bring me great enjoyment.
Man I envy you, just starting the journey with so much to look forward to.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs