Options
What do you think about this 1921 Peace Dollar MS67 ?
thebeav
Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
Looks like an awful lot of money. Of course, it's a photo, but too many things bother me about this coin. As a 67 anyway.....https://coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2018/08/Boldly-lustrous-1921-peace-dollar-brings-massive-price.html
3
Comments
Not very appealing to me.
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN
Although graded 67, I am surprised at what 'appears' to be wear on the hair details...Could be the picture/angle/lighting etc.. Cheers, RickO
Needs a dip. Er, I mean conservation.
Will it get beaned?
I could have saved $130K and probably found a 65 that has better eye appeal.
Personally I would expect a somewhat better strike on a 67, even for a high relief 1921. Looks to be fairly mark free, not a big fan of the coloration but could just be the photos don't truly reflect the color / luster of the coin. Did anyone see the coin in hand and if so provide a comment?
K
I was expecting to like it a lot more than I do
Might be the images, but it does not look that great to me.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
I would rather have a better struck ms63 with great eye appeal than that 67.
I'm not qualified to comment from an image. Now, if two or three of the "big rollers" and "major dealer players" who saw/bid on the coin would care to comment, we all may learn something from this post.
Not a 67 IMO. Poor eye appeal.
The photo shows a “ring” on the reverse that I sespect is a tremendous mint bloom. This is a case of the folks that saw it in hand know something we don’t.
Won't display here.
At least not at that price. I would have to look long and hard at that mark in the field in front of Ms. Liberty's nose, and spots in the hair and left field do matter when you get to the MS-67 level.
Might look good in hand, but I would rather have a sharply struck eye appealing 65, and a lot of money left to buy more coins.
Rather than debating whether or not 67 is the right grade for the coin, which would be an exercise in futility, I'll simply observe that there are enough 1921 Peace Dollars that look close enough to that one that $132,000 seems like a pretty wacky price. Of course, it might look like a bargain from a different perspective.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What does this mean? I've seen quite a few with the "ring" toning but what does "mint bloom" refer to?
Maybe it’s a case of set registry glory needing that 67?
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Lot 1234.
I’ve seen the coin and in my view it is a MS-66 with average detail. Scraping on Liberty’s cheek, dings on the W and S, and field scrapes prevent any more generous grade. Reverse dings on LU, behind eagle’s neck, and O and R affirm the obverse grade. The reverse die appears to be nearing its end of life; there are small die chips through STATES OF AM and a larger chip above N of ONE.
Overall the coin is “soft” and not especially impressive except for the general cleanliness from marks. Tarnish is irregular and very distracting especially at Liberty’s eye.
[Photos by Stack's-Bowers]
It’s GOTTA look better in hand, right?
I was talking to a dealer who went to a summer FUN show who interacted with another dealer that got an MS66 on a HR, the guy felt like he had scored and won the lottery, which is nuts.
As has been said, perhaps, someone bought the label. Let's see where this slab ends up.
Exactly.....no eye appeal at all.
I don't like it.
It certainly looks less than I was expecting, especially at that price!
My YouTube Channel
I'm not impressed. Yes, the eye thing is very distracting.
Pete
I must be missing something. Seems like an awful lot for that coin. Looks like wear around the ear to me.
im not impressed by it. for the price id like to see an better obverse and different toning on the back. i can wait
Way too expensive no matter how I look at it
and I've seen much better eye appeal a couple grades lower for much less 
Tell ya the truth, I have seen pics of 64's that womp that, perhaps because it's a 21 it's privileged
Steve
I picked up the term from others as “full mint bloom” which was taught to me a really powerful mint luster and usually tracts the design elements from the opposite side of the coin.
I mostly see this effect on say Lincoln cents, as that is what I collect. When the coin is struck the metal flows into the head and shoulders of Lincoln’s design elements, that you can intern see on the reverse as a vauge outline of Abe and the luster swirls over and around dictated by this effect. You can see it on Jefferson nickles as well as Jefferson’s image on the obverse tracks on the reverse and the luster blossoms from there. Some walkers have it too.
You can see on that peace dollar that the head has made some kind of influence on the reverse as what looks like a pocket or slight impression, and if there is luster, I suspect that that makes for an interesting and somewhat unique or uncommon effect when rotated. Only speculating as I have not seen the coin personally, but if that is what’s going on I bet it’s cool.
As it appears in the photo, I don't like it. High grade notwithstanding, I'd want some more lustre, less of a hazy appearance, and a stronger strike. With that said, I don't think the photo is doing the coin any favors, and it certainly could have more lustre, not to mention better lighting could make what appears hazy out to be a light and possibly attractive skin. However, to pay that much for a 1921 peace dollar, I expect the coin to be absolutely hammered. I have one (a humble 64) better struck than this coin, and to my eye, overall more appealing with nice color and lustre. I'm sure the coin in question is cleaner, but mine was less than 1% of the selling price of this coin.
In short: a coin like this deserves a better photo, but based on the photo, I'm not such a fan. The coin also needs a better strike to be truly appealing at this level.
Standard weakness for a 1921 peace dollar.
Technically it looks 67 but I think it should have lost a point for how ugly it is.
I think it will be a good candidate for conservation. Hopefully we'll see a new trueview for a nice bright spot free 67 soon.
Collector, occasional seller
Solid, and detailed strike on the high relief is the most important factor IMO. My 63 & 62 have more chatter but they have much better detail on obverse/reverse. The original look of this Peace would be at least palatable with full detailed strike. At that, the price would still seem a bit high.
Well, I have not seen this coin in-hand, but I think I have seen photos of it before. The number of extant 1921 Peace dollars in 67 is quite small (7 at PCGS, a few dupes?) and they're all rather memorable. I would just add that it would almost certainly be mistake to judge this coin from the photos provided. The coin is described as peralescent (a made-up word?). Probably, the photograph in the article could scarcely be worse. Deeply lustrous 1921's are a joy and really special. Roger has seen this coin in-hand and has given us his comments. He has forgotten more about this series than I'll ever know, but he tends to be pretty darn particular and overly harsh as compared to prevailing market opinions and valuations.
I'm certain it's much prettier in-hand. It's fair to say that most collectors of the series wouldn't be thrilled by the toning pattern, but it isn't that bad in the context of an original-skinned, lustrous 1921. You could dip it, but then the primary exceptional attribute of the coin (luster) would possibly be affected and land it back in the cohort of the typical MS65-66 coin.
It's interesting that the very highest-graded peace dollars in each issue often have toning, and it's usually not so helpful to overall eye appeal. They are nothing like Morgans (or any other series really). If you want to assemble a set of white, original, top-pop Peace dollars, you're looking for a very tough project indeed.
As far as the people commenting about wear around the ear, NO, just no! The die almost certainly never touched the planchet in this area and had no chance to strike up detail, produce metal flow, or luster. They're virtually all like this. They had enormous striking issues with the high-relief design and a FULLY-struck business-strike 1921 is as rare as pink elephants in the wild.
Finally, the luster on 1921 coins is fundamentally different than on the low-relief 1922-1935 specimens. Extrapolating what it should look like from more common issues would be a rookie mistake.
I think the coin better be pretty darn special to otherwise justify a 67 grade with this average or even below average strike.
As far as price, it's too high in my opinion, but try finding a better one for less money. There isn't much oxygen at high altitudes.
I know that the 1921 high relief often comes weakly struck, but strong strikes do exist even though rare. I would expect a MS67 to be hammered and have a full strike.
All of you people saying negative things about the coin, how many of you actually looked at it in hand?
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
I'm not saying anything negative. I just don't like it.
Sorry, but it's not visually appealing to me !!!
It would take a special photographer to make a decently struck specimen look that weak in photos.
The Stack's coin is marginally better, but the Heritage lot has more detail. When evaluating 1921s, look at the entire coin including central, peripheral and letter-shape - both sides - for fullness of detail. Then go back and do the same for surface wear or marks. (I know this is backwards, but it seems to be effective in separating detail and damage.) Some avid collectors make little "defect diagrams" to help them remain objective.
Opinion: Reading the 1964-D dime comments (a $10 coin is about right) and seeing prices for 1921s and other available coins, it all seems part of a greater unintended distortion of the coin hobby caused by marketing gimmicks from TPGs and supporting casts. As some have noted with modern "MS-70" coins there is very limited collector support for high prices. That does not bode well for the present hobby or for attracting new collectors, most of whom will get burned and never buy a coin again.
All I know is if @RogerB has seen the coin in hand and grades it MS66, it must be at least a 67+!
I don't like it.
Some folks around here are more conservative graders than others. Much of it depends on their age.
Sharpest tail feathers I have ever seen on a 21 Peace$, but the toning is reminiscent of some minor cardboard sticking to a coin after long term storage. Not a coin that I would pay a premium for. JMO.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I have never personally seen a 1921 with a full strike. Even the proof coins that I've seen are a bit lacking. Some get pretty close, but even the two coins in 67 on CoinFacts and the two 66+ coins all show strike weakness.
Roger's point about central weakness being only one factor is important. The definition of the lettering and rays is also highly variable.
It looks an awful lot like PCGS's coin facts photo with very similar toning(?).
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain