There is a difference between an honest mistake or something that later needs to be revised in light of new evidence. No one would fault anyone for that sort of discrepancy. What I do fault people for is when they have a history of deception or making things up outright. Was that an error based upon insufficient knowledge and technology or something pulled from the person's rear and completely fabricated to begin with? It all comes to the credibility of the alleged expert(s) making the claims. I think there is plenty of reason to question the credibility of some of the putative experts making these claims.
the mint never made any 1913 proof Liberty nickels either did they?
No the mint did not do so legally but some person or persons at the mint with access to the dies made a total of 5. I had herd once that this was a mixture of proof and business strikes or all proofs, don’t know which is correct, but the total of 5 is generally accepted. These 5 coins showed up at the ANA summer convention in 1919.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@BUFFNIXX said:
In a new thread I will be posting my 1935 buffalo nickel -- satin finish special striking -- (looks for all the world like a like a satin finish proof)
along with its letter from Walter Breen. Then I guess we can have another big numismatic food fight!
This is a coin I have actually owned since 1986, it came from Heritage Galleries.
I hope not. I look forward to seeing the coin and the new thread.
@koynekwest said:
As I said a couple posts ago-these coins must be re-examined TODAY by a panel of experts on matte proof coinage. Only then will they be legitimate if found to be proof or specimen coins. Just my opinion.
As far as SEGS goes, I have respect for Larry but he attributed a 1913 Var 1 5c for me as a proof nearly 20 years ago. It later turned out to be a circulation strike. I also bought a 1913 Var 1 that NGC called a circulation strike that turned out to be a proof.
Here is an example of a SEGS coin, properly graded and attributed, this is my coin,
a 1913 type two doubled die obverse with class six doubling on the date.
Despite what others have said I respect both SEGS and Larry Briggs.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@BUFFNIXX said:
This is a test, just changed my picture.
You're not a monster. Why would you want that monster to be your profile picture? (To provide context to others in case the photo changes, it is a picture of Breen).
@BUFFNIXX said:
This is a test, just changed my picture.
You're not a monster. Why would you want that monster to be your profile picture? (To provide context to others in case the photo changes, it is a picture of Breen).
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Good reading and good argument on both sides. I lean in the direction of no Lincoln proofs were made legally that year. Who's to say some shenanigans didn't go on when someone wasn't looking. Fun to fantasize about but impossible to prove.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@BUFFNIXX said:
This is a test, just changed my picture.
You're not a monster. Why would you want that monster to be your profile picture? (To provide context to others in case the photo changes, it is a picture of Breen).
Agree. There is no argument for committing crimes against children.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
There is a difference between an honest mistake or something that later needs to be revised in light of new evidence. No one would fault anyone for that sort of discrepancy. What I do fault people for is when they have a history of deception or making things up outright. Was that an error based upon insufficient knowledge and technology or something pulled from the person's rear and completely fabricated to begin with? It all comes to the credibility of the alleged expert(s) making the claims. I think there is plenty of reason to question the credibility of some of the putative experts making these claims.
LOL. I sure wish I had your powers of perception so I could know the hearts of men.
Knowledge evolves. I can think of several "honest mistakes" made out of ignorance (The earth is flat and is the center of the Universe) or "fabricated" on purpose to deceive ("If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.").
Actually, it is 2 - something on a beautiful sunny FL afternoon and I'm authenticating/grading a box of 19th Century South American coins (while listening to Irish Instrumental music). At the end of the box I see an 8 Escudo that I cannot wait to write-up diagnostics on.
Eat your heart out guys as every coin here BELONGS TO ME for a short period of time.
(EDIT to add) : The found Mint documentation / correspondence papers consisted of 4 to 7 pieces.
"Special Lot" coins were authorized by the DM.
@Rosco said:
Bruce Vogel / seymourwampum.com.... ****had copies of all the Mint documentation he personally located at NARA Pennsylvania and College Park Maryland RG104 pertaining to this subject, on his website.
****I just now looked at the website, and it appears he is rebuilding and upgrading it again, to further add information.
Synopsis of events documented:
from memory...
*October 1916 proof coinage to cease.
*Early November 1916, DM requested that any further special striking's, be reported directly to the DM and not reported
on the coiners records, referred to as the " Special Lot ".
*Hermon A MacNeil requested and paid for 2 complete sets in correspondence, and request was fulfilled by the Mint.
*Somewhere in this timeline the DM requested an unused press be moved to the Assayers office, not sure why.
I have spoken with Bruce Vogel several times, over the past several years on this controversial subject.
He told me to look at 1909 and not (just) 1916 concerning my coin, which I was not, just 1916.
I personally called Joel Rettew Sr. around 2009-10, in an attempt to get first hand information from the owner of
said 1917 set he acquired.
My hope was that he would have pictures and technical information about the coins.
His recollection he said, was not very good about it at all.
Leonard Albrecht
Would he have seen the OP coin and had an opinion ??
Credit to: reprint from the Numismatist.
Dr. Sol Taylor
I found an article years ago that said Dr. Taylor was speaking to a group or a convention, on this topic.
From what I remember, presentation pieces were prepared for the American coinage, for Mint Artist(s) presentation in
a meeting with the same, from Braxus, France in 1917.
Can anyone speak to this ??.......Were you there ??
Kenneth Bressett - Red Book.
2008 Red Book gives credit to cent, nickel and quarter for Specimen striking's are known to exist, though
not an official issue.
"Official "to mean : not for public sale correct ??
David Lange states in his Lincoln cent book, he has seen a Quarter Dollar that he believed was a Proof.
Also that a few silver pieces dated 1916 and 1917 were ultimately coined, and distributed privately.
*This coin was in a feisty thread last year in a PF ANACS holder, ultimately called a mechanical error.
Changed hands at a show shortly after, I hope it gets a fresh look someday by the experts.
Looks legit.
Comments
@Insider2
There is a difference between an honest mistake or something that later needs to be revised in light of new evidence. No one would fault anyone for that sort of discrepancy. What I do fault people for is when they have a history of deception or making things up outright. Was that an error based upon insufficient knowledge and technology or something pulled from the person's rear and completely fabricated to begin with? It all comes to the credibility of the alleged expert(s) making the claims. I think there is plenty of reason to question the credibility of some of the putative experts making these claims.
I will concede that.
No the mint did not do so legally but some person or persons at the mint with access to the dies made a total of 5. I had herd once that this was a mixture of proof and business strikes or all proofs, don’t know which is correct, but the total of 5 is generally accepted. These 5 coins showed up at the ANA summer convention in 1919.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I hope not. I look forward to seeing the coin and the new thread.
Here is an example of a SEGS coin, properly graded and attributed, this is my coin,
a 1913 type two doubled die obverse with class six doubling on the date.
Despite what others have said I respect both SEGS and Larry Briggs.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
This is a test, just changed my picture.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
You're not a monster. Why would you want that monster to be your profile picture? (To provide context to others in case the photo changes, it is a picture of Breen).
+1
Smitten with DBLCs.
Let’s take a holiday break, shall we?
Good reading and good argument on both sides. I lean in the direction of no Lincoln proofs were made legally that year. Who's to say some shenanigans didn't go on when someone wasn't looking. Fun to fantasize about but impossible to prove.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Agree. There is no argument for committing crimes against children.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I agree with you on this one hundred percent.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Rusty Nails and Salty Dogs...
It is cocktail time.
R.I.P Son 1986>2020
It's five o'clock somewhere!
LOL. I sure wish I had your powers of perception so I could know the hearts of men.
Knowledge evolves. I can think of several "honest mistakes" made out of ignorance (The earth is flat and is the center of the Universe) or "fabricated" on purpose to deceive ("If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.").
I wonder which is the case with Breen?
Actually, it is 2 - something on a beautiful sunny FL afternoon and I'm authenticating/grading a box of 19th Century South American coins (while listening to Irish Instrumental music). At the end of the box I see an 8 Escudo that I cannot wait to write-up diagnostics on.
Eat your heart out guys
as every coin here BELONGS TO ME for a short period of time.
**THREAD BUMP
I partially quoted myself from page 3.
(EDIT to add) : The found Mint documentation / correspondence papers consisted of 4 to 7 pieces.
"Special Lot" coins were authorized by the DM.
I personally called Joel Rettew Sr. around 2009-10, in an attempt to get first hand information from the owner of
said 1917 set he acquired.
My hope was that he would have pictures and technical information about the coins.
His recollection he said, was not very good about it at all.
Leonard Albrecht
Would he have seen the OP coin and had an opinion ??
Credit to: reprint from the Numismatist.
I found an article years ago that said Dr. Taylor was speaking to a group or a convention, on this topic.
From what I remember, presentation pieces were prepared for the American coinage, for Mint Artist(s) presentation in
a meeting with the same, from Braxus, France in 1917.
Can anyone speak to this ??.......Were you there ??
Kenneth Bressett - Red Book.
2008 Red Book gives credit to cent, nickel and quarter for Specimen striking's are known to exist, though
not an official issue.
"Official "to mean : not for public sale correct ??
David Lange states in his Lincoln cent book, he has seen a Quarter Dollar that he believed was a Proof.
Also that a few silver pieces dated 1916 and 1917 were ultimately coined, and distributed privately.
*This coin was in a feisty thread last year in a PF ANACS holder, ultimately called a mechanical error.
Changed hands at a show shortly after, I hope it gets a fresh look someday by the experts.
Looks legit.
R.I.P Son 1986>2020