A Video-free ANA show
messydesk
Posts: 20,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
As many of you know, David Lisot, videographer and mensch, records most of the educational seminars at ANA, FUN, and other major shows, and also records videos done at the show. Many of these videos end up on the NNP and CoinWeek. He wasn't doing it at the ANA show this year, but not because he couldn't attend. He showed up ready to go, then was informed that he had to have a union stooge shadow him at $75/hour, with a minimum of 4 hours billed (per day or per show, I don't know). Needless to say, he cut his losses and left.
John
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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I saw David walking around one day ,but had not heard what had happened. I would have left also.
I thought his videography was part of the ANA show contract?
The apparently excessive rates for cartage and other things might doom Philadelphia as a location for future shows - at least at the Convention Center. ($5.50 for the same soft drink that was 75-cents across the street was certainly out of line.)
Now that Janus is law of the land expect even higher prices until the unions either collapse or go bankrupt..
I have watched many of his videos on Youtube and also yours and several others on the NNP site. I had wondered if there would be one for this show...guess not.
What a crock
Latin American Collection
The Eastern/Northeast states take their Unions seriously. For the 2010 ANA in Boston, I had eight boxes of my monograph books on the 1794 Dollars delivered to the host hotel. When I got to the hotel, I found out that I was charged $50 per box for the hotel storing them for me (even though they stored them under a leaking condenser unit, that soaked the boxes
). Then, when I attempted to take the salvageable books into the Convention Center, the security guard told me that I was not allowed to do that, as I was not a Union employee. I told the guard that I was not moving anything on behalf of anyone else, and that I was just bringing in my own stuff. I was told that it didn't matter, because NOTHING was allowed to enter the Convention Center without being carried in by a licensed Union member!! 
My rant from PTVetter's thread,
@Boosibri said:
One dealer quoted me $8 per book was his cost for moving the product to his table. Shocking!
Shocking - I agree. ( @Boosibri, the following rant is not directed toward you, but knowing who you work for, I suspect you will understand). I am retired, so I don't give a carp anymore over who I might offend or shed some unwanted sunshine on.
Over my career, I have worked in the private sector as an engineer/manager/director (non-union) in both union and non-union shops. In my experience, 100% of the union represented shops have driven their employers into bankruptcy. Only about 20% of the non-union shops went BK. We are not talking about mom and pop shops here - think big. I recognize me sample size is small and may not be statistically significant. But it is reality for me.
It is not the union rank-and-file that are the problem (they basically do what their masters tell them), it is the higher level union hierarchy that must be "fed" in order to have labor peace with the company (golden goose). I could tell stories that would curl your hair. I have always said that the union/management relationship was incestuous and been proven to be correct many times, so the blame lies with both union and management.
On the other side, the public sector unions are not much better and may be worse depending on where you live and the specific union . Elected officials (often put in office by the unions) make promises that they cannot keep and one day will come home to roost in the form of bankruptcy. Just look at the city of Detroit as an early example of this phenomenon. What happens when Illinois, Kalifornia, and the northeast states cannot keep their promises and go BK? The unfunded liabilities are mind-boggling. I don't plan to step up and help them, nor should the other states. Reality will strike very quickly. Since I retired, I have been volunteering alongside some public sector workers - overall, I am not impressed.
So back to the $8 book premium. I'll assume that the vendor simply marks up his/her inventory to account for the extortion. I would NEVER buy a book at the ANA with a $8 "union" premium. In this example the union lackey gets his pay, but the poor vendor loses business. And by the way, never forget that the union person you supposedly "pay for" also must cover some "back room" union rep that must be on the job "representing" when one of his lemmings is also on the job. The rep gets paid while putting his feet up and watching - contributes nothing of value to the operation but is part of the overall cost equation. In my experience the rep is across the street at the bar watching sports and having a snort (or three) while his "people" are doing the work. Nice arrangement huh?
I hope some of this is insightful. IF I were to ever put on an major show, it would NEVER be in a union represented hall. Too much drama, too many restrictions, and too much wasted cost.
OK union lovers, flame away. Hopefully the others have learned a little about how many unions really work in this country today. Not all unions are like this, a few are actually responsive to business needs.
Cameonut
PS - I saw the thread about how a union "person" needed to be on the clock for an ANA member to show videos. Case in point. Easy Money!
The solution - avoid union represented halls unless they are competitive.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
...it’s Philly though fellas...same as Vegas...the web is thick and the vig unavoidable to most...somebody could get that fee wacked, but if you don’t know from who, then it won’t happen...pay the $300 and enjoy the show
I wonder what they would have done if David just went ahead and did his work?
The ANA should have taken care of this.
Fixed it for you.
Oh, and you could only buy that soft drink until 2:30. Want to guess why?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
What political party runs Philadelphia? My grandfather worked as an electrician at City Hall for decades. I know he was a Democrat but I didn't know or care about politics at all until I reached forty-something and he had died.
Don't the Unions run NYC the same way?
Unions had their righteous place, at one time. They have since gone completely corrupt in many instances, imho.
I am sure there are some good union people, but the unions I have seen (I have, THANKFULLY, never had to belong to one), haven't been doing things that I would consider "beneficial" most times.
Sure, they "negotiate" higher pay/benefits for their employees, but those same employees end up having to give up a good bit of their pay to the union anyway. They do things like this "charging to have books brought in", when it isn't necessary.
I have heard of people at shows, in certain cities, saying they weren't allowed to plug in a light without the union rep doing it and billing for it.
The ones around here, largely, don't do much but go on strike, contribute to political pawns, and push for higher costs for normal folks. They also are the ones fighting to keep bad people employed (cops who break laws, teachers who do bad things to students, thieves, etc). Yes, they should protect employees but when the employee goes way over common decency bounds/breaks laws, they shouldn't be employed. Union or no union.
Sad to hear that chosen cities have such a strong union presence that it impacts sellers and therefore buyers. It's, imho, unnecessary extortion.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The ANA should have taken care of this.
Aren't there a couple of members of the ANA Board of Governors that frequent these forums? As a 40-year ANA member myself, I would like to hear their thoughts on this situation.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
At one point in our history, unions served a purpose and really helped labor. They have long since degenerated into corrupt and useless organs. Most companies truly value their employees and recognize that without them, they would not exist as a business. In companies that I worked for, the employee was our focus. Sure, there were rules, and some employees were not the best - we are dealing with humans. However, our motto was 'People make it happen.' We had high wages and great benefits - and no unions. They tried a couple of times, the employees rejected them. Cheers, RickO
Just another affirmation of "Power Corrupts".
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
When I was much younger in my career I was the plant controller of a large unionized facility. The union leads for the site had a scheme going where the most senior guys would all bid to one particular area of the plant and then would always be on "Union business" which caused nearly 100% coverage for the department to be incurred on overtime (these guys were getting 1.5x - 2x and locking down near $200k per year as a result) with the wages for the "union business" being paid out of the members union due fund.
Recognizing the scheme I began to arbitrate every grievance under the sun and even seek to aggressively receive grievances by tackling some of the behavioral issues which was making the plant uncompetitive. Now they all had to actually do "union business" and show up to the arbitration. The levels of real business now far exceeded the equilibrium they had previously established and the resources of the general duty fund depleted within 3 months....they were bankrupt and had to show back to work again on regular time and without the resources to defend non-sense grievances we made important structural changes to the working rules which got the plant back to being competitive again.
Latin American Collection
RE: "Oh, and you could only buy that soft drink until 2:30. Want to guess why?"
OK....I'll bite. Why couldn't soft drinks be purchased after 2:30 pm?
The lady at the entrance told me to go buy my waters from a secret vending machine at the back of the room which was half the price of the machines outside the main entrance and 3x cheaper than those at the concession stand.
Latin American Collection
I don't think anyone who knows the history of labor and the rise of unions can argue that at one time unions were the best thing under the sun for the rank and file workers.
My only contact with a union came when "they" were trying to organize workers at a University teaching hospital where I worked for two years. Please read the next part carefully:
I know nothing about the union itself. What I do know for a fact from attending two planning sessions (as I was trying to get in good with the Commie Babe active in the takeover attempt who I worked with) is that all the people in that group were avowed communists and what they were up to had more to do with advancing their political aims in the US than helping the workers!