Just returned from the ANA
PTVETTER
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Not really a show report, but what I found while selling coins for a dealer friend.
I have read on this board, that how rude dealers are. I always though that maybe someone did something that set the dealer off. Normally as a dealer I am set up and mostly stay at my table. Since I went to many more dealers than I normally do, and found that indeed there are a few dealers that were rude. Now most are not that way, but that few is still too many.
I should not admit this, but I forgot what parking garage I was in.
This has a positive side I got the workout to stay in shape.
Maybe I can blame it on old age?
On an other note I was hearing that the union was a BIG problem.
In fact I understand that our host had a problem involving their moving of their large safe.
Anyone else hear this?
Comments
Cartage fees are high, especially for heavy objects. This has considerable impact on auction companies and book/supply dealers. There did not appear to be any large supply and book dealer there.
I have heard from the ANA of the difficulties ,in added costs and time, of having a show in a union state. I was on a show committee for a Mid-Winter (when that was what they were called). They asked about union issues, and when they were told that we were a right-to-work state, you could hear the sigh of relief from the ANA reps.
It's not a state thing but a Philly problem.
This is not a problem in Pittsburgh.
I had one unpleasant experience, many years ago while employed at a local R&D firm. I was working on a contracted project and needed to do a little painting. As a technician, I was accustomed to doing my own machining, wiring , whatever. I went and got the necessary paint for my project. "What are you doing", someone asked. "I'm going to paint this", I said. "No you're not".....It cost me two days and my department head was not happy.
One dealer quoted me $8 per book was his cost for moving the product to his table. Shocking!
Latin American Collection
Rude dealers are a show spoiler for me. When I used to go to shows in the PNW, I usually knew who they were, and just avoided their tables. At a major show such as FUN and ANA, one could have the occasional unpleasant experience. Glad you finally found your car...
Cheers, RickO
Here's a thought, maybe host the show somewhere where costs aren't through the roof?
I thought the union issues were “fixed” a decade ago? Sad to hear they are still occurring.
Anyone notice there were very few places to plug in for phone/laptop charging?
That, plus the fact that the PCC is getting a bit run down, makes me think the city isn’t investing enough for the first-tier convention business.
When I encounter rudeness, I remember that there is a great coin show going on just 20 feet away.
How were the sales to dealers, on your dealer friend's behalf?
What brought strong prices, what brought little to no offers, etc.
There was a charging station on the floor, but I think it was free, not sure however.
Today's phones have battery's that last longer than years ago, So many just charged them up in their room before the show.
I understand that the contract for the Hall was signed with the union problem was NOT a problem.
One change was the Mayor at that time the when the contract was signed lost his bid for reelection.
I seem to remember that Indian head cents sold well also higher grade red Lincoln cents.
In re to pricing, which many are thinking, They were priced fairly no bargains.
I told the dealers that they were NET priced and some could not resist offering less. WHY?
I am not talking about a small discount.
As a full time dealer I was shocked. Maybe it is because I did not have a dealer badge, but that should not matter!
I was at ANA all day yesterday. Overall, it was a great experience. But unfortunately, I did also encounter a weirdly rude dealer who soured part of the day. I regularly visit this person's website, and have purchased coins from him, and so was looking forward to viewing a particular coin in hand. When I first saw his table, there were two or three people there (dealer had another person helping him). I went up, spotted the coin in the case. I waited for a few minutes, and no one acknowledged me, so I decided to return later. Several hours later, I had circled back, and dealer was there with one other person. I walked up and saw they were chatting. I waited by the coin trying to make eye contact. One minute. Two minutes. Three minutes. He seemed to be deliberately ignoring me. Finally maybe four minutes, he made eye contact, then looked away to resume his chat without acknowledging me in any way. At that point I left.
End of vent. But guess who will no longer be visiting his website?
... And you have only yourself to blame. Dealers are an odd lot of humans with various moods that do change. I'm not a dealer but I was one decades ago so I've been on both sides. Sometimes I just look in cases with no intention of buying anything. I usually walk up to a table and say nothing, unless I know the dealer. Sometimes they ask if they can help me, sometimes they don't. If they ask I either tell them I'm just looking or tell them what I'm looking for.
I have found that in general, a talkative, happy looking (no matter his true mood), friendly dealer can turn a dead show into a good one in sales. While I always wait my turn (as you did) I don't wish to interrupt and I find that staring at the dealer while smiling or holding a check book generally gets me noticed. A simple "Excuse me, may I see that coin?" works too.
IMO, you were the looser. You had a chance to make a personal connection with someone you've done business with in the past. Probably would have given you a good deal too.
Yeah, I see your point. But I was standing there smiling and looking like I wanted to see a coin. I wasn't scowling, but I wasn't exactly waving fistfuls of hundreds, either. I guess at a certain point, I expected someone trying to sell stuff to acknowledge a person trying to buy stuff.
Perhaps you need to work on your "approach."
I
can be a peevish sort of guy. I have notice that there are two basic types of people we deal with - "mice and men." There is nothing wrong with either and for me at least, I can be both - depending on the circumstances.
That's why, on occasion, I will wait for someone to take the initiative and SPEAK UP. I know what's going on, they are possibly standing there torturing themselves out of shyness or manners. However, I think of it a s some perverse sort of "training" to help them be more assertive.
Most of the time, I'll be helping one customer and ask anyone standing around if they only have one or two coins for me to look at. That way they don't need to be standing around waiting in turn.
@topstuf ...Good one... reminds me of what I did to a perpetually obnoxious dealer in Seattle once... stopped at his table... looked a bit...pulled out a roll of hundreds... asked to see a coin...he practically fell over getting it out of the case (always locked). I looked at it, said no... not good enough and walked away. Never asked the price (which I am sure went up by about fifty percent from when it was in the case). That was the only time he was not obnoxious...Cheers, RickO
I made a trip on Friday afternoon to the ANA and stopped by a major bullion dealers table to sell a few generic items. It was a surprise to hear that only 1 of the 5 or so people manning the table could make any offers to buy—-anything—-even bullion!!!
Well, when I asked who was the guy I should see, they pointed out the buyer who was busy with a dealer in a transaction. I waited my turn, quietly and in queue. A moment after I ask who the buyer is, a guy with a duffel bag asks the same question—he is also told who the buyer is at the table.
Well, the guy with the duffel bag starts to queue up in front of me!!!
Being from Jersey—you know what happened next. “Excuse me but I guess you didn’t see the line”—the guy looks confused....I then said “you were right BEHIND me”
We had no problem after that short conversation.
Lots of rude people out there.
Had a very unpleasant experience with a dealer at the Portland 2015 show. My first taste of a true donkey in the hobby for me. Funniest part is this man has many good reviews by people on here.
My Instagram
I understand everything that is posted here. As I value my time very highly, I find it mostly wasted attending shows.
As you get older and time is shorter, you value the nice people you meet along the way!!!!
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Case in point. A dealer was there that was not set up. Just came to be with and see his friends.
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His doctor told him he will NOT see Christmas. Damn cancer.....
I've seen that before. They act like a jerk but then worshiped here.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
There was a dealer who used to post regularly here that I made a point of visiting his table at a major show in recent times. He had a corner booth and I had money to spend. When I arrived at his table several times, he was in the back sitting and talking to the dealer next door. Not once, over the visits that lasted at least 3 minutes each, did he even look my way. I did not want to interrupt his social conversation, but I figured at some point he would see me, as his only customer viewing his wares, and come over to see what I wanted. Never did so I gave up each time. The gist of the story is that he then posted here and was upset that forum members never came by and that he was going to protest this by removing himself from active posting. Strange but true.
OTH, another dealer at the same show, who is a member here and that I think the world of because of how he gives back to help folks, told me he stands at his table the whole time during the show so that he can greet everyone who comes there and never sits in the back looking away. Guess who got my money?
Best, SH
Shocking - I agree. ( @Boosibri, the following rant is not directed toward you, but knowing who you work for, I suspect you will understand). I am retired, so I don't give a carp anymore over who I might offend or shed some unwanted sunshine on.
Over my career, I have worked in the private sector as an engineer/manager/director (non-union) in both union and non-union shops. In my experience, 100% of the union represented shops have driven their employers into bankruptcy. Only about 20% of the non-union shops went BK. We are not talking about mom and pop shops here - think big. I recognize me sample size is small and may not be statistically significant. But it is reality for me.
It is not the union rank-and-file that are the problem (they basically do what their masters tell them), it is the higher level union hierarchy that must be "fed" in order to have labor peace with the company (golden goose). I could tell stories that would curl your hair. I have always said that the union/management relationship was incestuous and been proven to be correct many times, so the blame lies with both union and management.
On the other side, the public sector unions are not much better and may be worse depending on where you live and the specific union . Elected officials (often put in office by the unions) make promises that they cannot keep and one day will come home to roost in the form of bankruptcy. Just look at the city of Detroit as an early example of this phenomenon. What happens when Illinois, Kalifornia, and the northeast states cannot keep their promises and go BK? The unfunded liabilities are mind-boggling. I don't plan to step up and help them, nor should the other states. Reality will strike very quickly. Since I retired, I have been volunteering alongside some public sector workers - overall, I am not impressed.
So back to the $8 book premium. I'll assume that the vendor simply marks up his/her inventory to account for the extortion. I would NEVER buy a book at the ANA with a $8 "union" premium. In this example the union lackey gets his pay, but the poor vendor loses business. And by the way, never forget that the union person you supposedly "pay for" also must cover some "back room" union rep that must be on the job "representing" when one of his lemmings is also on the job. The rep gets paid while putting his feet up and watching - contributes nothing of value to the operation but is part of the overall cost equation. In my experience the rep is across the street at the bar watching sports and having a snort (or three) while his "people" are doing the work. Nice arrangement huh?
I hope some of this is insightful. IF I were to ever put on an major show, it would NEVER be in a union represented hall. Too much drama, too many restrictions, and too much wasted cost.
OK union lovers, flame away. Hopefully the others have learned a little about how many unions really work in this country today. Not all unions are like this, a few are actually responsive to business needs.
Cameonut
PS - I saw the thread about how a union "person" needed to be on the clock for an ANA member to show videos. Case in point. Easy Money!
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
The author did not pass along the $8 fee.
Latin American Collection
Which means the union lemmings took $8 of his well-deserved profit. I rest my case.
(I suspect I know who the author is - he deserved better treatment from the extortionists).
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
@spacehayduke I just recounted a similar experience via pm about a dealer with a corner table in 'recent times' who never once gave us a look the times we stopped by to view the coins in his case and make his acquaintance.
When he came on here to complain that no one from the forum came by to his table I thought it odd.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Fact: It cost Heritage Auctions $50,000 to move their stuff into the show. I have a dealer friend who set up, and received a lightbulb from the ANA which didn't work, he had to then put an order to the ANA and WAIT for a convention center employee to bring it to him. He had cases without a light for a few hours that day...