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You might be happier buying at coin shops.....
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Was the reply from an eBay seller after dancing around my SIX ...questions ...asking the same thing:
"Is it that color in ROOM light?"
I got "lessons" about "grading lights", brightness and lightness, doctoring, "proper" lighting, etc etc etc.....
Everything BUT the answer to what ...I...I.... thought was a very simple question if the coin looked like the image in room light.
Ah well, I might be happier buying at coin shops. 
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Comments
LOL... I hear you.
Seeing is believing. Especially when lots of $ is involved.
I think the answer is in there, and it is "no".
Collector, occasional seller
After the 2nd question about the same thing, you should self block the seller and the seller should block you.
It is obvious you are not going to be happy.
You would be amazed what you can do with photo fixing software. And I don't even have the sophisticated software.
Obviously you two don't see eye to eye
What kind of coin @topstuf ?
I think the seller has a fair point. You could have explained your question further and repeating it six times is quite persistent. Of course, if you asked it differently or responded to his answers then he is the one who was being difficult and obfuscating.
Maybe just “how does it look in hand?” “Room light” is not self evident or a typically used term.
Honestly, I would never answer that question with a "yes" or "no". Even if it looks right on MY computer screen, I can't guarantee that it looks the same on YOUR screen. In fact, all my items have a note in them that "colors may appear slightly differently on your computer".
Margins on Ebay sales are often less that the cost of shipping both ways. Question is legitimate, but I can understand the sellers reluctance to stick out his neck.
Most coin photos are not taken with "room light" because it is not intense enough to get the details of the design. They are taken with lamps which light the coin at certain angles. I look for the pictures that best depict the coin "in hand" when I get a good shot. There are some coins I just can’t photograph well. They are almost always certified. Raw coins are a piece of cake for me.
His STEERING my questions into "brightness" in no way addressed ANY aspect of..."color."
There's a seated dime on eBay with WAY conflicting images.
A...."True View" ...and... an image of the coin in the slab.
Night and day.
The questions I asked were NOT repeat questions. EACH addressed his latest evasion of ....COLOR.
And hell yes, I know about different monitor resolutions.
His final "advice" was the very best he could do.
I love that phrase. "The best he could do."
Agreed. I had NO uncertainty of the details of the coin. But, as you say, the photos of PROPER lighting for grading do nothing to ...approximate.... what the coin LOOKS like.
It's not the resolution, it's the color balance, the white levels, etc. Then you've got phone screens, tablet screens, television screens and the different lighting associated with the different screens.
Pull up an image on your phone and view it in room lights, in the closet, and then in sunlight. It will look different in the 3 different rooms using the SAME screen.
I totally understand your need and desire to know. However, there really is no way to know, for either one of you, what the other one is seeing.
You know the saying. "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your BS."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
after dancing around my SIX ...questions ...asking the same thing
sometimes a non-answer is a good answer.
It would not be unreasonable to have him reimage the coin under the centennial bulb.
In a possibly futile attempt to convince the forum that I may not be dysfunctionally dense, I will now leave the thread to those who did not participate in the event itself.
@jmlanzaf I just did my first try at coin photography this weekend. Edited all the shots on the work computer that is calibrated for printing. Load a couple on my phone, all dark. Damn it! Luckily a quick edit applied to all fixed it but yea. All screens are not the same nor should they be. They have different uses
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Maybe you'd be happier communicating by telegraph.....
Link ?
I'm wondering what it looked like.
I think I've mentioned this before, but my daughter-in-law has a Masters in Digital Image Manipulation...the idea that that is even a degree should tell you all you need to know about online pictures.
After 6 questions, I would have blocked you. It is a foregone conclusion that you will be returning that coin!
You would be doing them a favor. Any seller who can't answer a simple question after six tries is obviously hiding something.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Disagree. It's an unanswerable question. The seller can't know what the buyer is seeing.
Okay, that one brought me back.
It would, could, and SHOULD have been ONE question. The seller should be giving DANCE lessons.
I wish I could compromise my ethics and out him and quote his deceptive replies.
But you'll just have to take my word for it, distasteful as some of you might find that.
I..will...demonstrate MY first question.
(bear in mind that the listing showed a ...."true view".... (NOT A PCGS ONE) in the listing.)
MY question was, "How close to the PAIR image is the actual coin in room light for ...COLOR?"
The image was very nice. Had it been an actual and GENUINE True View, I would have been a bit more confident that it was pretty nice.
So ...........
It has been my experience that lots of questions will lead to a return since the person is looking for that "perfect" coin that eludes them, or they are going to try for an upgrade. Either one is bad for the seller.
Not that you were doing that, but many sellers believe this to be the case. The comment above about blocking each other made me laugh, but it might be true!
Give a link so we can see it for ourselves.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I'm happy at a coin shop.
I'm happy most of the time. Unless I'm not.
+1
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
What will you do if coin shops start saying you might be happier buying at Ebay?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
What I usually do. Buy from dealer sites or auction.
To be fair to the seller, not all rooms have the same light. Some are sunny, some are dark, some use old bulbs, some led, etc. My pictures would look different in each room of my house.
Where is the link?
The emphasis on color makes me jump back in, as I had a color FIGHT to resolve.
After I retired, I took a job at Amazon to learn ecommerce, and was the manager of a manufacturing facility that printed designs, slogan, etc. on shirts, parkas, etc. Simple, easy job.
The biggest challenge was the FIGHT between the graphic artist and my master printer as to the COLORS of the inks used to print. Teh submitting artists specified Pantone colors (our books contained over 1800 colors) and the graphic artist translated the stated color to an ink color based on the color of the shirt, as the inks changed colors based on blue, black, red, whatever the base color was of the shirt.
A custom ink was made, test shirt printed, and then the master printer and graphic artist often fought for hours, requiring new inks to be made to get the EXACT match based on the color on the very expensive computer monitor of the graphic artist. There was even a test area, with 9 different "ROOM LIGHTS" that all changed the color being reviewed. For example, there was a "natural" sunlight, 3 different incandescent lights, a fluorescent light, a CFL, an LED, and a couple foreign lights.
During this time, production sometimes would come to a standstill, as the graphic artist insisted the color printed had to match the color the customer saw on their screen.
Finally, one day, I had enough, and took the graphic artist and the master printer to, IIRC, Best Buy, where there are maybe 100 TV's, monitors, etc. all showing the same thing, but yet there is variation of colors, hue, tint, etc. I told the graphic artist to point out WHICH SINGLE monitor all our customers had, and we would match to that color.
Case Closed.
The process was changed that instead of 1800+ colors in the book, the submitting artists had to choose from about 100, and no custom inks, just an ink library, and it was either ink A or B in the range. Unless the job exceeded X pieces, the master printer alone signed off on the color match.
So, back to your "Room Light", what light, what camera, what monitor, etc. Way too many variable, and even if you got an answer, which is not really possible, it will look different in hand. Take it to different room in your home, and it will change again.
Our local B&M shop has a weekly bid board and usually has some pretty good deals, if you know what you're looking for. I just picked up a Fr. 2002-L PCGS 66PPQ for $95.00 this past weekend !!!
mustangmanbob , lol
I worked as a commercial photographer back in the day.
One of my jobs was a photographer for a poster company shooting 4x5 and 8x10 sheet film of original artwork. I used gelatin color filters to get the exact colors the anal art director needed. A lot of work but good pay.
Reading this thread makes me chuckle.... In my career in Aerospace electronics, we made lighted switches and displays for aircraft (of all types). Color displayed on products was critical, and measured to ensure it was both correct and consistent. Minor variations in the colored filters would cause a serious loss in product. I mention this just to support the above.... color is critical and displays will vary... especially commercial products for the general public. Cheers, RickO
I like the saying; "if you can't convince them...confuse them."
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
As a seller I would have "gotten" what the OP was after on the first try and made some sort of stab at an answer. As a seller, best to try to answer than obfuscate. If there is no good answer just say so. A good answer might have been: "The color is pretty close to what I see in hand, perhaps a little darker than the photo. Please return it without question if it isn't what you expect, but I think you'll be happy with it."
That's how I hooked a wife... I'm one fugly looking guy.
Hoard the keys.
OMG Where are your listings?
Haven't been a seller for some time now, but as a buyer the last few years the better guys respond along this line. Golden Rule and all.