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Are milk spots inevitable on most silver bullion, proofs and rounds?

HallcoHallco Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 30, 2018 5:46PM in Precious Metals

It seems like this is a real problem based on threads I have been reading.

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most of my silver is junk silver and ASE's. I have not had that problem.

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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. out of hundreds/thousands of SAEs/rounds over the last 15 years, I think I have seen milkspots on less than a dozen....and most of those came to me in the secondary market. The ones I got straight from the mint, or in rolls when released, have generally been milkspot free.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    HallcoHallco Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:
    No. out of hundreds/thousands of SAEs/rounds over the last 15 years, I think I have seen milkspots on less than a dozen....and most of those came to me in the secondary market. The ones I got straight from the mint, or in rolls when released, have generally been milkspot free.

    This is good to know. Thanks

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a lot of Mint ASE's and no milk spots. Yes, it is a problem... but it seems not every coin develops milk spots. Also, a tip I had when this problem became an issue, was to rinse all new mint silver in acetone. I have no idea if this is valid, however, I have no milk spots. Cheers, RickO

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    Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Last I checked, I didn’t have any on my ASEs. With that said... I have rolls that haven’t been opened in a decade. I open the tube to give them a look when I receive them, then they just sit there and look pretty.

    MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From my observations, they seem to show themselves within a year of the coin being minted. I have two pandas, 1993 and 2013. The 2013 is in an NGC Early Releases slab and still shows none whatsoever. I believe it is stable at this point. (the 93 is also clean)

    Back in 2016 however, I got a slabbed Panda early in the year.... It was clean at first, but by the fall of that year there were several! :rage: I got rid of that one and will only buy them with a couple of years track record now. Same for eagles.

    My YouTube Channel

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    davidkdavidk Posts: 275 ✭✭✭

    Canada gets the milk spots off coins

    http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/canada-gets-milk-spots-off-coins

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    HallcoHallco Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davidk said:
    Canada gets the milk spots off coins

    http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/canada-gets-milk-spots-off-coins

    Nice! I want to buy some bullion for 2018(the year I came back to collecting)! Guess I will be looking at some RCM stuff! :)

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    CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭

    @davidk said:
    Canada gets the milk spots off coins

    http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/canada-gets-milk-spots-off-coins

    It states it will fight milk spots, time will tell.

    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
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    NIPSZXNIPSZX Posts: 79 ✭✭

    I thought milk spots were special white toning. LoL

    It's crazy how popularity and conformity weigh trends in this industry. Quickly advertised perception is noteworthy and well known.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,203 ✭✭✭✭✭

    spots on silver bullion do not affect their value as bullion. Clean or dirty, silver is silver.

    Any additional numismatic value will be affected by spots.

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

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    morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll never buy a 70 ASE ever again, unless it's melt. If you make a 70 at a TPG get rid rid of it as soon as possible. Weird how I have ASE's in NGC plastic, snap fit holders, OGP and in tubes with no spots. This particular 70 shown was fine for years, then bam spots were born!


    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
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    HallcoHallco Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! :disappointed: That is awful. Sorry to be seeing that.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    Wasn't milk spotting a problem with Peace dollars? Also one sees lots of toned Frankies with untoned round shaped areas which were probably milk spots.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only way I truly know my pandas are authentic are when they spot, with gold or silver.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @OPA said:
    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    Wasn't milk spotting a problem with Peace dollars? Also one sees lots of toned Frankies with untoned round shaped areas which were probably milk spots.

    Like I said....I've never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spots. Never seen or heard of a Peace dollar having milk spots.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @OPA said:
    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    Wasn't milk spotting a problem with Peace dollars? Also one sees lots of toned Frankies with untoned round shaped areas which were probably milk spots.

    Like I said....I've never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spots. Never seen or heard of a Peace dollar having milk spots.

    Others have posted here in the past that it was a problem. Maybe someone will respond.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leaving the silver pieces in their original packaging will reduce exposure to contamination. By paying to have a coin put into a plastic holder, you are also paying to increase potential surface contamination and spotting.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The product from the RCM only says it will 'prevent' milk spots... it does not 'remove' the milk spots after they form. That is where some enterprising individual will make some money... figure out a solution that will remove the spots without any adverse effect on the coin. Cheers, RickO

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    bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hallco said:

    @davidk said:
    Canada gets the milk spots off coins

    http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/canada-gets-milk-spots-off-coins

    Nice! I want to buy some bullion for 2018(the year I came back to collecting)! Guess I will be looking at some RCM stuff! :)

    Not so fast , the may have gotten the milk spots off but the hag spot is still there

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Leaving the silver pieces in their original packaging will reduce exposure to contamination. By paying to have a coin put into a plastic holder, you are also paying to increase potential surface contamination and spotting.

    Mostly agreed , RogerB.
    But there are those odd occasions with unexplained anomalies which occur.

    Here is that 5 coin 25th Anniversary Set From 2011.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure, there will nearly always be exceptions, but overall each new re-packaging increases the opportunity for contamination, for which none of the re-packagers will accept responsibility....far too easy to blame others than to fix their own part of the problem.

    Not one of the TPGs presently operating uses anything approaching a clean-room for handling coins. Not referring to medical or NASA standards, but simple best-practices for eliminating most contamination. ;(

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    From what I've read and seen its caused from residual "detergent" left on the planchets and or blanks after they are initially washed and rinsed. Now, what I do not understand, is you will see examples of let's say i.e., MS 70 SAE bought on x day. The coin is beautiful and stunning. Not a single milkspot to see. Then one day you take out the same coin and see milkspots all over it. My question is why in the hell arent the milkspots already noticeable? Of course, people have said to keep coins and or bullion stores in a dry climate and this will alleviate this!?....idk...some mints have worse milkspotting than others. CML and queens beasts. But the new mint shield may be on to something. Time will tell.

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @OPA said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @OPA said:
    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    Wasn't milk spotting a problem with Peace dollars? Also one sees lots of toned Frankies with untoned round shaped areas which were probably milk spots.

    Like I said....I've never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spots. Never seen or heard of a Peace dollar having milk spots.

    Others have posted here in the past that it was a problem. Maybe someone will respond.

    I've heard people say this is also why you do not see a lot of SAEs spotting due to the fact their purity is .993(respectively) as opposed to .999

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @morgansforever said:
    I'll never buy a 70 ASE ever again, unless it's melt. If you make a 70 at a TPG get rid rid of it as soon as possible. Weird how I have ASE's in NGC plastic, snap fit holders, OGP and in tubes with no spots. This particular 70 shown was fine for years, then bam spots were born!

    They should come off very easily w/o a trace. It is a shame these are not guaranteed anymore because it could have been reholded again after the spots were removed.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2018 6:48PM

    @RogerB said:
    Leaving the silver pieces in their original packaging will reduce exposure to contamination. By paying to have a coin put into a plastic holder, you are also paying to increase potential surface contamination and spotting.

    This is true; however many prefer their coins be graded. It is all a crap shoot. You would be surprised at the condition of some stuff that comes right from the mint.

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shinywhite said:
    I've heard people say this is also why you do not see a lot of SAEs spotting due to the fact their purity is .993(respectively) as opposed to .999

    ASE's are 999 fine.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @shinywhite said:
    I've heard people say this is also why you do not see a lot of SAEs spotting due to the fact their purity is .993(respectively) as opposed to .999

    ASE's are 999 fine.

    That

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shinywhite said:
    From what I've read and seen its caused from residual "detergent" left on the planchets and or blanks after they are initially washed and rinsed. Now, what I do not understand, is you will see examples of let's say i.e., MS 70 SAE bought on x day. The coin is beautiful and stunning. Not a single milkspot to see. Then one day you take out the same coin and see milkspots all over it. My question is why in the hell arent the milkspots already noticeable? Of course, people have said to keep coins and or bullion stores in a dry climate and this will alleviate this!?....idk...some mints have worse milkspotting than others. CML and queens beasts. But the new mint shield may be on to something. Time will tell.

    I've posted on more than one occasion that one can see the pre-incipient/invisible milk spots by looking at the coins using a halogen flashlight, but it seems to have flown over everyones' heads. Not one person said that hey I tried that and it doesn't work. At that point the contamination can still be removed with EZest dip. You can try the acetone if you want to.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Sure, there will nearly always be exceptions, but overall each new re-packaging increases the opportunity for contamination, for which none of the re-packagers will accept responsibility....far too easy to blame others than to fix their own part of the problem.

    Not one of the TPGs presently operating uses anything approaching a clean-room for handling coins. Not referring to medical or NASA standards, but simple best-practices for eliminating most contamination. ;(

    It's not post mint contamination. DW has said that coins arrive direct from the mint with some in the tubes already spotted. I can't imagine what a TPG could do to cause that sort of problem.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @OPA said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @shinywhite said:
    I've heard people say this is also why you do not see a lot of SAEs spotting due to the fact their purity is .993(respectively) as opposed to .999

    ASE's are 999 fine.

    That

    I meant .9993 pure. Yes it generally shows that they are .999 but in fact they are .9993

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    ^^^correct me if I'm wrong

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still, no one has developed a process/product that will remove the milk spots - Cheers, RickO

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, while at NCS I learned how to remove many of these - the method I devised left with me. LOL. :p

    It all depends on the coin as each is different. It is more difficult to do on a proof. Two years ago, I posted before and after images on another website to make a point it can be done without leaving a trace. B)

    If it worked on all coins (some I will not touch), I would have gone to PGCS and collected the reward they offered. :) I've stopped fooling with SE as soon as our guarantees no longer applied; but at work today, I'll still do it when the value of the coin warrants it.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At one point I was in touch with the head of QC for the mint. They were working on the problem, but she didn't hang around long enough to make any headway and moved on up the ladder. Frankly, I don't know why they don't make a video of the entire process [esp. that part where the coins/planchets come into contact with solutions; if in fact they do at all] and put it out for view. Can't believe it's that secretive. Probably be a piece of cake for someone to solve it if they could see the process. Then again it might be that the spots are on the planchets when the mint gets them.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Sure, there will nearly always be exceptions, but overall each new re-packaging increases the opportunity for contamination, for which none of the re-packagers will accept responsibility....far too easy to blame others than to fix their own part of the problem.

    Not one of the TPGs presently operating uses anything approaching a clean-room for handling coins. Not referring to medical or NASA standards, but simple best-practices for eliminating most contamination. ;(

    There was a poster here some time ago who was [and maybe still is] an employee of the Sunshine Mint one of the suppliers to the U S mint. He posted a pic of a bag of unidentified white powder that he said was used to make the/a rinse solution for the planchets. I'll do a SWAG and suggest that it was supplied to them by the mint. Perhaps with your adeptness at searching the mint records you could search their purchase records and find out if they bought the stuff.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The basic planchet cleaning product is a version of "Simple Green." It has been used for 30+ years.

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    The basic planchet cleaning product is a version of "Simple Green." It has been used for 30+ years.

    Is it initially in powder form? Idk where I heard this?

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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    Not a major problem on my end....just a minor occasional nuisance. That holds true to all .999 silver bullion coins. I have never seen a 90% silver coin with milk spot.

    It seems Milk Spotting occurs on Peace Dollars a larger percentage of the time from 1922-1926. It is an issue that causes 65s to become 64s.

    thefinn
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    shinywhite - Liquid when I noted it about 6 years ago, but other forms might be in use. The US Mint is constantly testing these kinds of things for products that are better, or cheaper, or environmentally superior.

    Post-US Mint is a totally different matter, and it would be good if those who repackage pieces would improve their processes and procedures.

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