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  • WFFLWFFL Posts: 496 ✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:
    If your primary goal is investment honestly I think there are better areas to invest in. The problem with cards is they can't generate cash flow like dividends and interest and they also have high turn over costs from commissions and fees. If you are just an every day collector like me the best you can hope for is a 4% transaction cost and in many cases it is closer to 14%. You have to be right a lot and you also have to be willing to sell.

    Cards go through periods of ups and downs and the idea that you can sit back for thirty years and at that moment a card will be at maximum value and you sell is really unrealistic. I think if you plan to hold cards for the long term you need to buy cards that have great interest to you and something you are proud to own. Simply holding a collectible for future value is tough and I think many mid journey sell for any number of reasons.

    The best advice I was given was from my twin brother Bill and he said Dave don't sink too much into the bums and put more on the higher profile guys because over the long run that is what has a better chance of holding value. I truly believe this to be true. No one is saying twenty years from now that low pop cards won't be valuable but you will have an easier time unloading a star card in awesome condition than a bum that is only valuable because of the condition. I passed on some cards because of this advice and it was prudent. I do throw some good money after bad simply to improve my collection but for the most part I take a hard look at the numbers and try and make sure I can justify the purchase.

    My best returns on cards on a percentage basis have come from finding them raw and getting them graded. I have read comments many times on message boards where collectors won't buy raw cards and only graded and while I do understand part of this it takes away the ability to prospect for gold. My buying habits have slowed over the past few years but much of this is that very few nice raw cards have surfaced and therefore I simply pass. It is a great feeling looking at a lot of cards and seeing instant profit if I send them in for grading.

    A lot of the easy money has been made in the past ten years on cards and I wouldn't be surprised personally to see a lot of stagnation. It isn't to say there won't be winners but many cards have found comfortable trading ranges and will need a surge in demand to move up a lot.

    You also might consider signed cards. One of the best by mistake moves I made was getting a lot of Wrestling All Stars cards signed. I had no real thought of the value going up but because a fresh group of buyers have started collecting the set I was willing to part ways with some at extremely advantageous prices for me. There seems to be real strong interest in signed trading cards so make sure you look at all avenues.

    Good luck.

    The first paragraph is a winner! Investment and speculation are two different animals. However, the temptation of cards can be our drug of choice. This has been an enjoyable thread to read. The thoughts and opinions of others add to thread. Thanks to all.

  • momo1234momo1234 Posts: 358 ✭✭✭

    Another point I think should be made, is the cards I buy have meaning to me more than investment.
    Growing up the only card i wanted was the 89 upper deck griffey but at $35 being 11 years old it was out of my price range. When I shelled out $300 for the same card in gem mint 10 25 years later it was fulfilling because it meant something to me.

    A jordan rookie (of which i have the fleer sticker in grade 9) is another one of those cards that was part of my childhood.

    Ultimately passing along those cards to my kids will mean something to me, though it may not be worth much monetarily...thats why I am looking for something more vintage like a pete rose rookie or a babe ruth in lower PSA's because i think those cards will hold value and are still in limited supply.

  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I often wonder how frequent there are people going in together on cards they can't afford on their own, such as say finding a few acquaintances and each having a "share" of a single 1952 PSA Mantle.

  • @miwlvrn said:
    I often wonder how frequent there are people going in together on cards they can't afford on their own, such as say finding a few acquaintances and each having a "share" of a single 1952 PSA Mantle.

    The most famous one is probably In 1992 when Wayne Gretzky and Bruce McNall(LA Kings owner) partnered to buy the T206 Wagner for $450K.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • steel75steel75 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭✭

    Like others have said, there is always going to be demand for the sports icons. Mantle, Jordan, Gretzky and so forth. Buying a $20 card hoping it turns into a $2000 card is the real gamble. Boom or bust.

    1970's Steelers, Vintage Indians
  • FayeildingFayeilding Posts: 88
    edited July 27, 2018 4:28AM

    Even though I don’t collect unopened boxes & packs, I think it’s one of the more reliable investments out there.

    It’s the one thing is guaranteed to get more rare as time passes, because people will break them looking for PSA 10’s.

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:
    If your primary goal is investment honestly I think there are better areas to invest in. The problem with cards is they can't generate cash flow like dividends and interest and they also have high turn over costs from commissions and fees. If you are just an every day collector like me the best you can hope for is a 4% transaction cost and in many cases it is closer to 14%. You have to be right a lot and you also have to be willing to sell.

    Cards go through periods of ups and downs and the idea that you can sit back for thirty years and at that moment a card will be at maximum value and you sell is really unrealistic. I think if you plan to hold cards for the long term you need to buy cards that have great interest to you and something you are proud to own. Simply holding a collectible for future value is tough and I think many mid journey sell for any number of reasons.

    The best advice I was given was from my twin brother Bill and he said Dave don't sink too much into the bums and put more on the higher profile guys because over the long run that is what has a better chance of holding value. I truly believe this to be true. No one is saying twenty years from now that low pop cards won't be valuable but you will have an easier time unloading a star card in awesome condition than a bum that is only valuable because of the condition. I passed on some cards because of this advice and it was prudent. I do throw some good money after bad simply to improve my collection but for the most part I take a hard look at the numbers and try and make sure I can justify the purchase.

    My best returns on cards on a percentage basis have come from finding them raw and getting them graded. I have read comments many times on message boards where collectors won't buy raw cards and only graded and while I do understand part of this it takes away the ability to prospect for gold. My buying habits have slowed over the past few years but much of this is that very few nice raw cards have surfaced and therefore I simply pass. It is a great feeling looking at a lot of cards and seeing instant profit if I send them in for grading.

    A lot of the easy money has been made in the past ten years on cards and I wouldn't be surprised personally to see a lot of stagnation. It isn't to say there won't be winners but many cards have found comfortable trading ranges and will need a surge in demand to move up a lot.

    You also might consider signed cards. One of the best by mistake moves I made was getting a lot of Wrestling All Stars cards signed. I had no real thought of the value going up but because a fresh group of buyers have started collecting the set I was willing to part ways with some at extremely advantageous prices for me. There seems to be real strong interest in signed trading cards so make sure you look at all avenues.

    Good luck.

    Solid advice

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭

    @momo1234 said:
    Hey all...
    I am a big believer in buying cards you like over who is the "flavor of the month".
    Having said that, occasionally we all have some extra income we can throw at a card as an investment..

    I wanted to ask the experts here what they think the go to cards would be at the $100-1000 level, the 1000-2500 level and then the 2500+ level.

    I am asking for cards that you think will appreciate in value.

    Thanks

    Lets go back to the original premise. Buying cards you like. To me, that is the primary driver of every decision. Within my collection, I dont deviate from what I collect, but when buying something I want, consider investment as the secondary indicator.

    For example, someone suggested the 93SP Jeter as a card that may go up. If you just went and bought the card on speculation, you hope it goes up, and its kind of a sterile transaction. But if you collect HoF rookies and know at some point you'll want to add the card for your collection, then you can consider whether you want to invest in the PSA 9 or 10 or if the 7 or 8 is ok for the collection.

    In my mind, collecting comes first and investing comes second, if at all.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Obviously with vintage, the prices are driven by buyers opinions (opinions based on/reflected by what the prices being paid for by the buyers). For vintage the players,HOF or otherwise,are either retired or passed away. The prices cannot be driven by on field performance. One other price driver in vintage could be a tragedy, ala OJ Simpson scenario. With modern you have the double market driver working for you. On field performance and HOF potential. Be careful though as it carries more risk, but potential reward may be higher with a low "buy in". Being visible and still playing always helps the modern market.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • pheldaphelda Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    For baseball: $100-$1000 Trout rookies, Mookie Betts Rookies, Machado. Although they are already priced fairly high, if they all have 10+ year careers I think they are solid.

    I love pre-70's hi numbers in PSA 8 or better.

    Hockey, Football and Basketball I think have huge upside for quality 70's material. SO much of it is dirt cheap.

    My budget doesn't tend to go over into the thousand dollar plus cards, but you can't go wrong with the obvious :Mantle, Mays, Clemente, Koufax. I think personally the Yogi Berra cards are under priced.

    Regional, test-issue, food issue, oddball stuff is under-valued too. The non-mainstream stuff.

    Autographed rookie cards are skyrocketing as everyone has seen, and I would love to focus on those to collect. Some of the mid-level talent players could rise a little bit as more attention gets placed on this collecting niche.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    Assuming injuries don't tank your plans, you can develop systems that promote a greater chance of return on investment. One area I focus on is projecting out when players will hit career defining milestones. For example, Drew Brees is projected to break Peyton Manning's all-time passing yardage record in week 5 of this year. I have a spreadsheet of about 100 players across all sports with stats/projections to keep an eye on and this Brees record was one of them. I didn't predict it to week 5 exactly, but I knew in late 2016 that in 2018, this was a possibility and loaded up on quite a few 2001 SP Authentic PSA 10s. Yes, anything could have happened but no risk, no reward.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 555 ✭✭✭

    I’m biased, but key signed RCs of deceased players in high grade.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    @MrHockey said:
    I’m biased, but key signed RCs of deceased players in high grade.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As the children of the 80's are now professionals with professional salaries i can see them wanting the best quality 80's rookies they can find i think that would be the tiffany sets in high grade

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • CollectorAtWorkCollectorAtWork Posts: 859 ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2018 3:40PM

    Like another poster mentioned, I personally think that purchasing the top 3-5 all time stars for each sport in the highest quality affordable in the best strategy going forward as there will always be demand for these cards.

    However, recently, I've been looking at some of the cards for modern stars and seeing that they are often in the thousands of dollars and wondering if there isn't some decent kind of strategy there that some collectors may be using. For example if you had purchased a few of Mike Trout's best rookie cards, you'd be doing really well. Maybe something like an index fund approach where you purchase the best rookie cards for the 3-5 top prospects for that year in PSA 10 (just 1-2 cards for each prospect), and just do that every year. There will be some misses, of course, but there may be some big hits also. I have no idea if this would work or if it should even be recommended, but just something I was thinking about.

  • momo1234momo1234 Posts: 358 ✭✭✭

    One other card that hasn't been mentioned here is the greg maddux tops rookie from 1987. You could pick those up on gem mint 10 for around $50.
    Thats an example of a card I think only has room to go up. I am a fan of stars who i rooted for and have finished their careers.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pop is 3116

    Pop is 503

    I honestly can't imagine an environment where a card with this many in a PSA 10 and a better copy that exists with dramatically smaller population rises much in value.

    Could it go to $60? Perhaps but it could just as easily go to $40 with this many graded in a 10.

    If you are looking for investment returns you need lower supply to have some big hits.

  • momo1234momo1234 Posts: 358 ✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:
    Pop is 3116

    Pop is 503

    I honestly can't imagine an environment where a card with this many in a PSA 10 and a better copy that exists with dramatically smaller population rises much in value.

    Could it go to $60? Perhaps but it could just as easily go to $40 with this many graded in a 10.

    If you are looking for investment returns you need lower supply to have some big hits.

    >
    good point, i think my point here was also that mad dog was a player i was always a fan of, so owning his rookie card in gem 10 is one of those things i always wanted to do.

  • momo1234momo1234 Posts: 358 ✭✭✭

    what makes it a better buy? the POP?

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Much lower supply of cards created. Card is from 1986 vs. 1987 and yes a much lower pop of 101 in a PSA 10 and only 336 cards graded so far.

    https://www.psacard.com/pop/minor-league-cards/1986/procards-pittsfield-cubs/44398

  • momo1234momo1234 Posts: 358 ✭✭✭

    makes sense why it is 10 times the price

  • pheldaphelda Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    It is always a no-loose when you are buying cards you enjoy of players you rooted for if it fits your budget. But on the investment side, it is so hard to take emotion out of it. I teach the stock market and investment game to young students and despite the discussion about fundamentals, risk, volatility, financial statements, cash flow, earnings, etc., they all pick the stocks that they have an emotional or personal attachment too.

    Stamps, bottles of wine, paintings, classic cars are also viewed as investments and have an emotional element to them. Its just very challenging for me, despite understanding the "right" or "academic" way to view investments to strip away emotion from the equation. I think this is the reason why I collect the teams and players I like, I think may have upside, or can be a good quick flip, but I don't push all-in on something specific. I win-some-loose-some. But as long as I get the cards of players I like, I'm okay if they drop a bit, and I'm very satisfied if they skyrocket.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While there's better ways and things to invest in, I'm guessing you know that.

    Blue Chip

    If you are looking to invest in a single 'baseball' card, I would suggest going for the highest graded card you can afford of your favorite 'all time great' player. I don't mean a PSA 10 Joe Pepitone - these guys above hit the nail on the head - Icons of Sports AND I'll add from Iconic Sets only. Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Jackie Robinson, Ted Williams for easy names to pick from (and maybe even in that order). For iconic cards, 1933-34 Goudey, T206 and 1952-1959 Topps would be ideal - these sets have stood the test of time even as the players have passed on decades ago in some cases. The closer to a grade of 10, the better and I would say 8's or better only - look at pop report and figure out if you're in the top 2-5% for the card. Recognize this is going to limit the pool of available cards to choose from quite a bit already and your budget will do the same (god bless if it does not). However, once you have this narrowed list I would choose carefully and pick the one you like the look of most. If the market craps out, you'll be staring at it forever so make sure you can stand to look at it.

    RISKY (and requires a leap of faith)

    While I have not put my money where my mouth is (and won't, as I collect just to collect), I will toss this out there - I think the regular old base model Topps sets from 1990-Present Day - in PSA 10 - represent a great investment. When we see the late 80s/early 90s surge of popularity and price of baseball cards again (and that will happen), people will want to collect the base sets and those cards are currently underappreciated, often abused and being thrown out in droves - as we speak. And as much as the parallels and sub sets are fun and valuable now, there's probably too few of each to fuel prolonged value as those cards are unique to that player, tend to disappear into collections once acquired and not everyone endures (i.e. I'd be nervous if I were long Ohtani's right now). So thirty years from now, when the movie 'Juiced' comes out and people want to collect the players who opened the gates for performance enhancing drugs (that is how it will go, big pharma will win that battle - guaranteed) and Barry, Roger and Sammy are celebrated (again), people will want the best copy of the cards that were widely available - the ones everyone collected - the Topps base model cards. Upper Deck, Classic, DonRuss - these will be the 'oddball' cards of the future - some value just not universal to all collectors.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • stwainfanstwainfan Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think some of the WNBA stuff. Maya Moore rookie for example. Is gaining quite the value.

    I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stwainfan said:
    I think some of the WNBA stuff. Maya Moore rookie for example. Is gaining quite the value.

    I have a friend who is into WNBA cards and he has been selling some to Hall of Fame collectors for some really solid prices that are up a lot from prior years.

  • stwainfanstwainfan Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:

    @stwainfan said:
    I think some of the WNBA stuff. Maya Moore rookie for example. Is gaining quite the value.

    I have a friend who is into WNBA cards and he has been selling some to Hall of Fame collectors for some really solid prices that are up a lot from prior years.

    Cool I'm looking for some cards.

    I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/

  • stwainfanstwainfan Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/

  • maddux69maddux69 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting conversation with Bill F, he was the one that sent out the survey to all psa members. The top 250 cards have gone up tremendously over the range, while cards 251-1250 have only had a roughly 1% increase.

    I would view vintage cards as a mutual fund type of investment while the modern autos, refractor parallels are today’s tech stocks. While some modern will continue to rise, e.g. 2011 trout update, there will be many in which the bottom falls out, e.g. Trevor Story

    I have a copy of his findings if anyone is interested

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