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momo1234
Posts: 349 ✭✭✭
Hey all...
I am a big believer in buying cards you like over who is the "flavor of the month".
Having said that, occasionally we all have some extra income we can throw at a card as an investment..
I wanted to ask the experts here what they think the go to cards would be at the $100-1000 level, the 1000-2500 level and then the 2500+ level.
I am asking for cards that you think will appreciate in value.
Thanks
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Mariano Rivera 1990 Diamond Cards Minor League Card PSA 10. Folks are holding on to this card and is vastly undervalued. Last one sold for 900.00 in Nov. 2017. This is a 2k card and could go even higher with his HOF election next year. Only 52
PSA 10s.
If you know any hockey,
2009 U.D. John Tavares Young Guns Rookie Card.
Signed with Toronto Maple Leafs.....Canadiens love their hockey
i'm all about the classics these days. no even tier 2 players. i'm talking only top 3-5 ever in each sport - that is what will continue to resonate over time.
This is valid for, for example, Jack Morris, but there is no one out there who thinks Rivera will not be a HOFer, and few who don't think he'll go in on the first ballot. I have to think the HOF premium is already priced in.
Alex Relyea
Historic cards are undervalued and in the next 20 years I believe we will see a big rise, especially Hockey when antiquity and scarcity catch up with a market on the fringe.
all around collector of many fine things
Psa 10 Lee Smith rookies
was just thinking of this recently... mainly because I'm priced out of any of the big cards I really want! haha
I’m thinking anything Joe Schlabotnik
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
I recommend putting all of your money into Chris Sabo & Walt Weiss rookies
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
invest in real estate
How long are you willing to be invested?
I’m much more of a modern collector. Here’s some stuff that can be had in the sub $300 range that I think is likely to do pretty well in the next 10 years or so off the top off my head. DISCLAIMER: I’m really not that smart at all.
*2012-2014 Mike Trout Topps SPs and Parallels.
*Chris Sale RCs in general.
*Alex Bregman 2017 Heritage Real One autos, 2017 archives autos, & 2016 Bowman Chrome autos.
*Nolan Arenado Topps gold RCs, Heritage RCs, & Bowman Chrome parallel
RCs
*Francisco Lindor Topps Chrome SP RC, and Heritage action RC.
*Aaron Nola Real One auto RCs and Archives auto RCs.
I guess this is more of a “players I think are good” list when I think about it, so again take it with a grain of salt
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I’m willing to be invested long term. I look at this as something I would give my children. I’d prefer a vintage card but always debate grade quality vs. quantity. I.e. Better to get a mantle or rose rookie in a lower grade or spend the same amount on a psa 10 Griffey and a psa 9 86 sticker Jordan rookie.
I appreciate and welcome all the comments keep em coming
Hey I always get backlash when I post these “investment” questions! Lol.... I love the topic as well..... I do think if you stick with the icons and buy in the highest grades you can afford those will stand the test of time
Great point. But better to spend 1000 on one card or several lower grade cards?
You know what I mean. One rise rookie psa 5 or a mantle and mays in psa 3...
I think you let that choice come to you meaning if you find a super nice psa 6-7 Mantle then pay up for it but if you find a really nice for the grade psa 3 HANK Aaron rc you buy it or maybe it’s a super nice Nolan Ryan psa 5-6
I agree. That’s a good way to look at it. Though I do want an 86 fleer Ric Jordan in at least an 8. I think I’m better off with a nice looking mantle Ryan or Rose
We used to have these threads yearly, with so much good information inside.
IMHO I would go vintage all the way over the MJ Fleer and Griffey junior UD rookies. To be transparent I already own nice examples of MJ Fleer and Griffey junior UD rookies so I might be a little biased.
I would like to add that if you are confident in what you are buying the Star MJ rookie would be a nice investment but be careful of counterfeits.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
1993 SP Derek Jeter.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
My two cents ...
I think vintage FB/BkB have more room to grow than BB if you want to stick to the main 3 sports, likely hockey as well if expanding to 4. Mantle cards, rookies, rarities, and high grade seem to weather any economic storm. I'll echo the above on Star MJ pre-1986 cards, if PSA ever decides to grade these again I would guess they all get a pretty decent bump in value and seem to see pretty steady growth regardless.
I think there's a ton more room for icons of the "other" sports though. Ali/Tyson in boxing, Nicklaus/Palmer in golf, etc. These and a lot of tennis, soccer, cricket, and others seem criminally undervalued and have worldwide appeal that should expand in the next generation with rising wages in many countries outside of the traditional US/Western Europe for card collecting.
ETA: Non-sports phenomenons like Pokemon are likely good long term investments also.
I'd argue that all but a relative "handful" of cards have probably topped out at this point. There are plenty of every "major" card printed from 1980 forward. Jordan, Griffey, etc... would be bad future investments because those can only go down.
Here's how I see it: Ask yourself, what future event would cause either a)more people to want those cards, or b)the people who are currently buying them to pay more for them? Both are in the HOF and people have been collecting them for 20-30 years. Again, MJ and Griffey RC's aren't limited cards. There are at least 2 million 89UD Griffeys. There are three dozen 86F Jordans available online with only a brief search. By the time they pass away, there might not even be a card market period. So, there is really nothing that would cause cards by retired HOFers to ever increase. Think about it.
There are a handful of cards that are traded among the wealthy that might be good investments if you have that kind of jack and are willing to take a risk. Buying Mike Trout or some other flavor of the day thinking those cards will be like vintage Mantle cards one day is not wise imo.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
While there is not a shortage of MJ or Griffey rcs they are in high demand though which should help them hold and increase over time. Low supply does not always mean high prices just as large supply does not always mean low prices
IMO, the obvious investment that can be much better with a higher yield than a timeless iconic RC is to acquire any item that fits a PSA registry set where the set has multiple high rolling participants who do not yet have said item. Not an easy task, but I feel it is the most profitable, at least from perspective of net %.
This though boils down to investing in the Registry as a concept (...powerful drug), as opposed to a card or cards that comprise the set composition.
With the price of the 1986 Fleer Jordan. I think more are turning to the 1987 Fleer. Oh one difference between 1986 baseball and Basketball. The basketball cards didn't have as many produced as baseball.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
This is a very interesting point, but it assumes that PSA and the registry are cannon and will last the test of time.
Sort of. The OP mentioned appreciating in value, but did not specify a duration. When you have an item like I suggest, the holding time is not nearly as much dependent on the registry standing the test of time, but is instead a race for you to get it listed for auction when each of the potential bidders is interested and before one of them finds a different copy from someone else. There is potentially a very high reward with the scenario I describe, but sometimes you can lose directly if you invest heavily into something to flip, and sometimes you can lose just by the money you could have had but didn't if you find something for a small price that could flip for thousands times what you paid if no one found one but then during your holding time one of the competitors found one which in turn knocks the competition side of the value of your item down considerably. Again, this describes investing in the registry and its competitive nature, as opposed to the value the item holds with the broader non-registry market.
The most explosive rates of return are on low Pop cards that are important to registry sets. I paid 2k for a 10 that is $6 raw. No star card will ever achieve that percentage return.
Now on the other hand one could argue that once sold for the high price these are the worst investments in the graded card world and sometimes that is right and sometimes it is wrong.
To another point about the registry investment, sometimes it pays off by holding a more rare item for a while until a greater number of participants join a particular set, and then release it for sale. This is a similar but different situation than finding an item that fits an already competitive set. In this first example, you are investing in the potential gain in popularity of a set, instead of on existing popularity of a set.
wouldn't you have a better chance buying 100 raw cards and hoping for a 10? this is really part of a different question I know, but the ONLY value I see in PSA is knowing that the card is authentic.
I was thinking of this but was scared to post it... I look at it slightly different that the popularity of Baseball seems to be declining by attendance figures and the fact that not a single MLB player was in the top 100 most recognized athletes recently. Baseball has gone through lulls before but I wonder what the impact to this will be longer term to the hobby as I imagine there may be less demand. I'm not sure what baseball is going to do to acquire more fans... I'm a big fan and have season tickets but it's getting harder and harder to go watch games that take 3.5 hrs and have little action. I still enjoy it because I grew up watching and love the stats aspect of baseball.
Lost my way a bit there but I think MJ may be an interesting investment because he was an international star so may have more people interested in his card... if they like cards that is. I lived in Europe and South America while he was playing and no one at my school collected cards so I feel like it's harder to get into later on in life?
Though both of the following examples are true, often the payoff is less about scoring a 10 on a high print volume card where 100 cards or more exist than it is about finding a single copy, regardless of condition, of something scarce. So to better illustrate, which would earn more money to your investment, self-subbing a PSA 10 1976 Topps George Brett, or discovering that hypothetically Topps had printed 5 test promo copies of a 1985 Michael Jordan for a basketball set that never went to print but nonetheless PSA was willing to grade even if they were in terrible condition, and then getting it added to the Jordan master set registry required composition? The Jordan example is pure fiction, but what I'm going for is to show that not all the best registry investments rely on the grade itself.
Some cards you can't just go out and buy 100 copies and shuffle through them looking for the best candidates to submit. If a set has been actively collected for a decent amount of time and a card is still low population it is for a reason.
One thing that is true as well with registry related cards is sometimes collectors buy high and sell even higher.
I think the point about buying top copies of sets you think might be collected in the future is a great one. I loaded up on Wrestling All Stars cards and because the cards became more sought after the prices rose significantly and so had someone piggy backed on this concept for investment purposes they would have killed it. Many of my early buys outside of the big three (Hulk, Andre, Flair) are up 500% and in many cases north of 1000%. When you factor in the raw buys that I got graded it makes these numbers look like child's play.
Probably something like half of the cards that PSA has graded would never have been subbed if the registry did not exist. Add up all the commons, minor stars and odd ball items out there and the numbers are staggering. Most of those would have no value at all without the registry, but the registry, not the grade or authenticity, has created value where there may otherwise never have been.
Dpeck, while I agree with you are you using wrestling cards as your example?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Yeah I paid 2k for a total bum to stay on Top in the 1983 set. It is only money!
To add, playing the registry game can be a complex and time consuming job. Much more then just buying a card and watching it grow. You have to stay up to date on the pop reports, etc...
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
And be ready to pounce at any given moment!
Yes, to that point, not always the case but still often enough, investing in purchase of a classic RC or something like that can be like parking money in a 401k or traditional IRA and then letting it sit for years, as opposed to investing in the registry that can be more like short-term day-trading at times.
Im really not interested in short term trading. I am looking for the long haul. don't you think hedging your bets on several vintage raw cards may be a better play.
90's inserts of MJ have shown a steady climb in value in recent years especially high grade PSA copies. As have most of his on card autos in a Bulls uniform.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
For the long haul, then yes, that may be true.
Playing the registry game is a wise investment, but besides the monetary investment, you also have to invest a lot more time/education/diligence in order to maximize your success with it.
Here is a hockey example that’s currently up for auction.
He was the Sabres first captain and I would love to add this card. I have a 9 and can’t justify this. Although I do admit I tried to when it was half this price. Unfortunately two guys, who I have to assume are the top dogs in the set registry are getting after it.
He is a journeyman player towards the end of his career not a card of any importance accept for being a pop 1. The 1971 OPC set is the 3rd most collected Hockey set on the registry. Grab some popcorn tonight and watch. It should be fun.
Kevin
Kevin
Wow... I wish I was the ebay seller for this card!!!
If your primary goal is investment honestly I think there are better areas to invest in. The problem with cards is they can't generate cash flow like dividends and interest and they also have high turn over costs from commissions and fees. If you are just an every day collector like me the best you can hope for is a 4% transaction cost and in many cases it is closer to 14%. You have to be right a lot and you also have to be willing to sell.
Cards go through periods of ups and downs and the idea that you can sit back for thirty years and at that moment a card will be at maximum value and you sell is really unrealistic. I think if you plan to hold cards for the long term you need to buy cards that have great interest to you and something you are proud to own. Simply holding a collectible for future value is tough and I think many mid journey sell for any number of reasons.
The best advice I was given was from my twin brother Bill and he said Dave don't sink too much into the bums and put more on the higher profile guys because over the long run that is what has a better chance of holding value. I truly believe this to be true. No one is saying twenty years from now that low pop cards won't be valuable but you will have an easier time unloading a star card in awesome condition than a bum that is only valuable because of the condition. I passed on some cards because of this advice and it was prudent. I do throw some good money after bad simply to improve my collection but for the most part I take a hard look at the numbers and try and make sure I can justify the purchase.
My best returns on cards on a percentage basis have come from finding them raw and getting them graded. I have read comments many times on message boards where collectors won't buy raw cards and only graded and while I do understand part of this it takes away the ability to prospect for gold. My buying habits have slowed over the past few years but much of this is that very few nice raw cards have surfaced and therefore I simply pass. It is a great feeling looking at a lot of cards and seeing instant profit if I send them in for grading.
A lot of the easy money has been made in the past ten years on cards and I wouldn't be surprised personally to see a lot of stagnation. It isn't to say there won't be winners but many cards have found comfortable trading ranges and will need a surge in demand to move up a lot.
You also might consider signed cards. One of the best by mistake moves I made was getting a lot of Wrestling All Stars cards signed. I had no real thought of the value going up but because a fresh group of buyers have started collecting the set I was willing to part ways with some at extremely advantageous prices for me. There seems to be real strong interest in signed trading cards so make sure you look at all avenues.
Good luck.
Now that was a good post with good info! Mine won’t have near as much info! Lol..... I try to buy a mid to high grade card of all the major vintage stars across the big 3 sports. I am missing quite a few of course but that sure makes it fun to acquire them one by one. A 67 Seaver is on my list and taking that card for example I would think that if I find a really nice psa 7 that I am happy with that card will be worth more that I will pay in say 10 years. I guess I could be wrong but I don’t think so. I think that especially holds true as the names get bigger
I try to "split the difference" on this subject in my collecting...
On one hand I have a pretty narrowly focused graded card collection of Dallas Cowboys rookies (All-Time, Ring of Honor and Hall of Fame) and player runs of Doomsday defense players (see my signature). Most people collect the offensive stars (QB, WR and RB) - so to some degree, I'm swimming against the tide with the defensive player runs. But I don't care as those are the players I decided to focus on (arbitrary I know).
However, for fun I've been collecting NM to NM-MT raw sets of 1960's football: primarily 1964 / 1965 Philadelphia gum and 1969 Topps (though I have 10-15% of 3 other mid-1960's sets started).
Every time I buy a Dallas Cowboys card for one of those sets I'm immediately pulling out the graded card I have and comparing them. Sometimes I say I'm glad to have the graded card. Other times I really have to pause and think about it. A great example is the 1965 Philadelphia Gum Pettis Norman NM-MT I bought for a few dollars seen here in a scan of the page from my raw set:
I compared that to my 1965 Philadelphia Gum pop 1 PSA 10 Pettis Norman:
And had an interesting conversation with myself - that still isn't over I might add - about whether or not I really "needed" the PSA 10 pop 1 item or if i'd be content with the raw one... and if I had the PSA 10 for a PSA registry set or because I really wanted it if the registry didn't exist. It's a tough thing to separate in your mind sometimes.
Steve
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
Sell the 10, sub the raw and make it a Pop 2.
It’s easier to buy for fun but to give my opinion: the most likely scenario is 20 years from now we’ll look back and wonder why we thought cards of Jordan, mantle, Brady, trout, etc were so expensive in 2018. As the years go on, the field will get narrowed to the best of the best, or the most popular of the popular.
“Most likely scenario” might not be the best wording, but I’ll take Ripken over Raines in the long term, no offense to Tim.
Roberto Clemente is a great brand. I think you'll see his cards keep going up. He is and always will be a legend in Puerto Rico.
Forget about worrying about the registry. If you want to invest in cards, my advice would be to collect the players that are popular; Mantle, Clemente and Koufax come to mind. I also would only buy cards "7" or higher and well centered.
I don't know much about the new stuff, seems overpriced and impossible to figure out what's a desirable card.