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Did CAC make a mistake on this 1916 Lincoln?

ChristopherCoinsChristopherCoins Posts: 26 ✭✭
edited July 8, 2018 9:53AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Recently purchased PCGS MS67+RD. Auction house confirmed they had submitted and it was a failed CAC but I still purchased. Submitted myself with the same result. I think coin looks great for an early Lincoln but maybe I'm missing something. Hard to find early Lincolns with this strong of a strike.

thechristophercollection.net

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Comments

  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭

    Hard to figure without knowing the assigned grade

  • ChristopherCoinsChristopherCoins Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited July 8, 2018 9:55AM

    Sorry, edited my original post - MS67+RD in a PCGS holder

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a beautiful cent.
    You bought the coin. Kudos.

    I does not look 67+ to me.

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2018 10:06AM

    Looks like rusted dies maybe? But that doesn't detract from it as far as I'm concerned. I think it's spectacular.
    The only think I could surmise is the few hits on the reverse. In front of Lincoln's face there's some vertical marks. Is it die polish?

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  • You know, the fields are a little bumpy. Could be rusted dies.

  • @Swampboy said:
    It's a beautiful cent.
    You bought the coin. Kudos.

    I does not look 67+ to me.

    What grade would you give?

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They don't make them like that anymore. Nice coin.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,229 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome coin for sure!

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice. Maybe CAC only thinks it is a 67. The hubs were redone in 1916, so the details are very sharp - especially the beard. Probably more detail than in 1909, and my favorite for a Lincoln type coin. The rippled field is part of the design, just like the 1916 STQ, WLH and MD. Also like the 1913 Type 1 nickels.

    thefinn
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can Vanna supply a "+" ?

    ;)

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    " The hubs were redone in 1916, so the details are very sharp - especially the beard."

    This. 1916 Lincolns SHOULD look nicely detailed. Red coins aren't too hard to find either. About 11 years ago, several coin shops in Tucson had them, from a freshly broken roll. I bought one in PCGS 66 RD.

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  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the no-sticker. It’s a fantastic coin, but looks like a very nice 66 to me. A few ticks on the reverse might be pardonable but the stuff in the right obverse field is a bit distracting. In-hand appearance could change my opinion maybe.

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't care what cac says that's an amazing looking coin!

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
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  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love the look of fresh red copper, but I will not buy it. It is just a matter of time until it is red-brown. No stopping physics and chemistry. Very beautiful coin.

    thefinn
  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭✭

    Very first thing I saw was the mark on the E on the reverse. Otherwise nice looking.

    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    Very nice. Maybe CAC only thinks it is a 67. The hubs were redone in 1916, so the details are very sharp - especially the beard. Probably more detail than in 1909, and my favorite for a Lincoln type coin. The rippled field is part of the design, just like the 1916 STQ, WLH and MD. Also like the 1913 Type 1 nickels.

    @BryceM said:
    I agree with the no-sticker. It’s a fantastic coin, but looks like a very nice 66 to me. A few ticks on the reverse might be pardonable but the stuff in the right obverse field is a bit distracting. In-hand appearance could change my opinion maybe.

    Some of those lines look raised to me like die polish.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rainbowroosie said:
    Very first thing I saw was the mark on the E on the reverse. Otherwise nice looking.

    I think this is CAC's reason.

  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭✭

    I think it has great original skin. I see the minor scratches on the face and in front of the face. I'm assuming the luster is booming, so PCGs gave a bump for it. I think CAC saw this as a 67 "C" coin. As great as Phil/trueview is, you really can't capture luster from the pictures.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did CAC make a mistake, or did PCGS?

    thefinn
  • ChristopherCoinsChristopherCoins Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited July 8, 2018 12:33PM

    Another 67+ that got a CAC label. Appreciate everyone's comments.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think CAC was right. I see it as 66-7, but not a great 67. 67 is a strong grade for that cent. I would be very happy with that. Very nice coin, I like it a lot.

  • GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    This is the key statement:

    "JA will only sticker a coin he is willing to buy."

    For a tiny fee, collectors are allowing someone else to cherry-pick their collections. CAC adds nothing, is not an independent authenticator or grader, and makes money on gullible people. There is nothing technically wrong with that -- it's called "exploitation" and has been around for the last 100,000+ years, with or without stickers.

    PS: CAC does not make mistakes. Their evaluation purpose is always subjective and commercial, not objective.

    Cac adds nothing ?? Have you noticed the difference in prices realized on cac classic gold coins vs non cac coins ?

  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭

    CAC does not care about the “plus” on a coin. CAC only looks at the numerical grade and suffixes like Full Bands.

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  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful coin !!!

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s nice coin and I agree w TPG grade

    Coins & Currency
  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me, the small scratches in front of the face are a negative, but the die erosion in the fields make for some fantastic luster. It’s a trade off and I like the luster enough to stomach the marks. Personally, grade wise, I think it’s a 67 max with the marks. Great coin though, I just love these things.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When a 66+ is a $600 coin and 67+ is a $6,000 coin? I can see why they didn't sticker it. It is a great coin though.

  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,239 ✭✭✭✭

    nice coin.... ......what is price difference for a 66 vs 67

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChristopherCoins said:

    @Swampboy said:
    It's a beautiful cent.
    You bought the coin. Kudos.

    I does not look 67+ to me.

    What grade would you give?

    I would grade it 67

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are doing market stickering and prefer Gold over Copper, and guess what, they are now making the market.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you have an image of the holder? (I want to see when it was graded) Coin is nice but seems to have a lot of chatter in front of the face.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lusterlover said:

    @ChristopherCoins said:
    Another 67+ that got a CAC label. Appreciate everyone's comments.

    Is that a fingerprint at 5:00?

    Sure looks like it.

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a nice looking coin and a keeper If you sold it and some one else has it stickered then how will you feel? I know one thing when they want you. They say we guarantee are service then when something go's wrong they use this it's all "subjective" What a crock. Just a way to get out of what they are doing if your that good pay up. You put them out there and if you play the game they will get wacked once in a awhile. Customers need to remember they are just as good as the other guy and can cost you $$$$ if they don't get it right as well. That is just me dumb Type2.



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  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    Do you have an image of the holder? (I want to see when it was graded) Coin is nice but seems to have a lot of chatter in front of the face.

    Nice Coin no matter what...my guess is late 2010 ;)

  • zas107zas107 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭

    That coin has insanely nice eye appeal. I think what bothered cac was the small scratch in front of the face. It is thin, but large. Great looking coin though!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A nice cent, for sure...I do see the marks on the obverse, and the minor dings on the reverse that others have mentioned...but the detail and luster are remarkable....So I can see a 67, though if it had been a GTG, I would have likely said 66+...Still, a really nice Lincoln... Cheers, RickO

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gazes said:

    @RogerB said:
    This is the key statement:

    "JA will only sticker a coin he is willing to buy."

    For a tiny fee, collectors are allowing someone else to cherry-pick their collections. CAC adds nothing, is not an independent authenticator or grader, and makes money on gullible people. There is nothing technically wrong with that -- it's called "exploitation" and has been around for the last 100,000+ years, with or without stickers.

    PS: CAC does not make mistakes. Their evaluation purpose is always subjective and commercial, not objective.

    Cac adds nothing ?? Have you noticed the difference in prices realized on cac classic gold coins vs non cac coins ?

    I'm not sure you understood the point Roger was trying to make. He's not saying a CAC coin isn't worth more. He's sugggesting the CAC coin would be valued by a good eye at a premium anyway because it is high end for the grade. All the CAC sticker does is give JA's cohort permission to buy them sight unseen. That's what he means by allowing JA to cherry pick your collection.

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭

    My guess is that CAC doesn't like the chicken tracks in obverse field in front of Abe. Great color and probably 67 anyway that well preserved

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  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 1916 Lincoln is drop dead gorgeous!! But in my honest opinion, if it were mine and it was raw and I was sending it to PCGS for grading, I would be hoping for a 66 or 66+. My worry would be the marks in the field in front of Lincoln as others have stated would hold it back. I think that CAC felt the same way which is why it did not pass CAC. Please don't get me wrong, I love the strike and the luster is just amazing. The original red coupled with the luster just make for an incredibly eye appealing coin.

    Did you call JA to ask him why it did not pass? This is the type of coin, that even though you may not have asked for notes to be taken, would probably be remembered (if it was not too long ago). I think it would be worth a phone call at a minimum just to find out.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gazes said:

    @RogerB said:
    This is the key statement:

    "JA will only sticker a coin he is willing to buy."

    For a tiny fee, collectors are allowing someone else to cherry-pick their collections. CAC adds nothing, is not an independent authenticator or grader, and makes money on gullible people. There is nothing technically wrong with that -- it's called "exploitation" and has been around for the last 100,000+ years, with or without stickers.

    PS: CAC does not make mistakes. Their evaluation purpose is always subjective and commercial, not objective.

    Cac adds nothing ?? Have you noticed the difference in prices realized on cac classic gold coins vs non cac coins ?

    I think he means it adds nothing to the coin....not the selling price.

  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably, as for the miniscule imperfections, they are really only apparent when the image is enlarged 500 times.
    Stunning coin

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CAC never makes mistakes...ask around on this site. :wink:

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i would just ask cac.

    it would have to be the value, not the grade, i think.

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