Dealers and collectors approach auctions differently. For a dealer, no emotion is involved. If total price is too high, they pass. For a collector, if you have been looking for something for a long time, you might keep bidding, even you are up against a "win at any price" bidder.
Bill, the emotion is multiplied for the dealers. Mortgage payment depends on it. Though cool heads usually prevail, we have all taken a deep dive at an inopportune time.
Dealers and collectors approach auctions differently. For a dealer, no emotion is involved. If total price is too high, they pass. For a collector, if you have been looking for something for a long time, you might keep bidding, even you are up against a "win at any price" bidder.
Bill, the emotion is multiplied for the dealers. Mortgage payment depends on it. Though cool heads usually prevail, we have all taken a deep dive at an inopportune time.
Another "advantage" that dealers have in auctions is that they can be open to buying anything in the sale that relates to their area of busines. If they are generalist dealers, that could be most of the items listed in the Red Book. Collectors usually have a much narrower focus.
Therefore if something gets too high in the bidding, a dealer can more easily pass while a collector is more apt to keep going.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Frankly I don’t c how an auction house that charges 25 pct stays in business vs eBay or GC.
With such a venue I would drop my bid to cover their 25 pct take vs say eBay. It is the seller who will suffer not me. This does explain why many dealers on bourse offering no more than 65-70 pct cdn bid.
@Cougar1978 said:
Frankly I don’t c how an auction house that charges 25 pct stays in business vs eBay or GC.
With such a venue I would drop my bid to cover their 25 pct take vs say eBay. It is the seller who will suffer not me. This does explain why many dealers on bourse offering no more than 65-70 pct cdn bid.
Because I guarantee that for most coins, you or I would not get on eBay what the coin will fetch at Stack's. The same is true of some coins on GC vs. Stack's. Different venues for different items.
People focus too much on the 25 pct charge. The only thing that matters is dollars in the pocket. If you can get me 400% more money, I don't care if you keep 50 percent of the proceeds, I'm still much better off.
Also, keep in mind that on better material the auction house is NOT really charging 20%. If they kick back 5% of BP to the seller, the net charge to the seller is only 15%. GC and eBay are not much cheaper than that with possibly fewer eyeballs.
@tradedollarnut said:
When buyers fees were 17.5%, I estimated my cost by adding 20% to my bid. So, honestly- why shouldn’t they be 20%?
This is precisely why buyer's fees will continue to march up. We are not close enough to the pain threshold for prices to drop enough for the auction houses to moderate their fee structures in efforts to increase sales.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
Herb Melnick (does anyone remember NASCA?) started the buyer's premium concept, from what I understand. At that time, he set it at 5%. Why? He said that it was small enough that buyers wouldn't notice, and he was right. The question to ask is whether we are there yet.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
We are there so far as I'm concerned, but those who believe that "5th grade math" will save us don't.
The first buyer's fee that I can remember was from New England Rare Coin Galleries in the 1970s. They sarted it out at 10%.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Dealers and collectors approach auctions differently. For a dealer, no emotion is involved. If total price is too high, they pass. For a collector, if you have been looking for something for a long time, you might keep bidding, even you are up against a "win at any price" bidder.
Bill, the emotion is multiplied for the dealers. Mortgage payment depends on it. Though cool heads usually prevail, we have all taken a deep dive at an inopportune time.
Another "advantage" that dealers have in auctions is that they can be open to buying anything in the sale that relates to their area of busines. If they are generalist dealers, that could be most of the items listed in the Red Book. Collectors usually have a much narrower focus.
Therefore if something gets too high in the bidding, a dealer can more easily pass while a collector is more apt to keep going.
Agree with that. Consider also that every collector can access the same coins at auction that the dealer can. No so easy 30 years ago.
@Sonorandesertrat said:
"If everyone exercises restraint and does not buy, the auctions will soon smarten up." Ain't gonna happen. Frankly, grade inflation/manipulation costs collectors more than auction fees.
Consignors could refuse to consign, but I doubt that would work either.
@Sonorandesertrat said:
"If everyone exercises restraint and does not buy, the auctions will soon smarten up." Ain't gonna happen. Frankly, grade inflation/manipulation costs collectors more than auction fees.
Consignors could refuse to consign, but I doubt that would work either.
Why would they? Most with a significant collection are getting half of it anyway
Comments
Bill, the emotion is multiplied for the dealers. Mortgage payment depends on it. Though cool heads usually prevail, we have all taken a deep dive at an inopportune time.
Another "advantage" that dealers have in auctions is that they can be open to buying anything in the sale that relates to their area of busines. If they are generalist dealers, that could be most of the items listed in the Red Book. Collectors usually have a much narrower focus.
Therefore if something gets too high in the bidding, a dealer can more easily pass while a collector is more apt to keep going.
Frankly I don’t c how an auction house that charges 25 pct stays in business vs eBay or GC.
With such a venue I would drop my bid to cover their 25 pct take vs say eBay. It is the seller who will suffer not me. This does explain why many dealers on bourse offering no more than 65-70 pct cdn bid.
When buyers fees were 17.5%, I estimated my cost by adding 20% to my bid. So, honestly- why shouldn’t they be 20%?
Because I guarantee that for most coins, you or I would not get on eBay what the coin will fetch at Stack's. The same is true of some coins on GC vs. Stack's. Different venues for different items.
People focus too much on the 25 pct charge. The only thing that matters is dollars in the pocket. If you can get me 400% more money, I don't care if you keep 50 percent of the proceeds, I'm still much better off.
Also, keep in mind that on better material the auction house is NOT really charging 20%. If they kick back 5% of BP to the seller, the net charge to the seller is only 15%. GC and eBay are not much cheaper than that with possibly fewer eyeballs.
I foresee a thirty percent fee by 2020....
Cheers, RickO
This is precisely why buyer's fees will continue to march up. We are not close enough to the pain threshold for prices to drop enough for the auction houses to moderate their fee structures in efforts to increase sales.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Herb Melnick (does anyone remember NASCA?) started the buyer's premium concept, from what I understand. At that time, he set it at 5%. Why? He said that it was small enough that buyers wouldn't notice, and he was right. The question to ask is whether we are there yet.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
We are there so far as I'm concerned, but those who believe that "5th grade math" will save us don't.
The first buyer's fee that I can remember was from New England Rare Coin Galleries in the 1970s. They sarted it out at 10%.
Agree with that. Consider also that every collector can access the same coins at auction that the dealer can. No so easy 30 years ago.
Consignors could refuse to consign, but I doubt that would work either.
Why would they? Most with a significant collection are getting half of it anyway