@DIMEMAN said:
Bo was very good and so was OJ! And so was Dorsett. I liked Dorsett as a runner better than Sanders. Tony was faster at hitting a very small hole and was uncatchable in the open field. And didn't run around in the backfield losing yardage!
I still remember his 99 yard TD on MNF...…...still a record that will probably never be broken! It was actually 99 1/2.
Of course you'd prefer Dorsett over sanders. He's a Cowboy, too, LOL..
Sanders blows away Dorsett in all the key categories, YPC (5.0 vs 4.3), YPG (99.8 vs 73.6) and TDs (109 vs 90) even though Dorsett played 20 more games, too. Sanders was decidedly better and it's not even debatable.
Stat wise I agree, but if the game was on the line and we couldn't afford a loss of yardage.....I would much rather have Dorsett or Smith or Brown or Payton run the ball over Sanders.
Wanted to note that Alan Page was the first defensive player to be named league MVP.
perk, Earl Campbel will give your team 3 good years, and 1 of them that can be considered great. Get real on Skoal brother, he didn't last. In fact his best year YPC is the same as Browns' lifetime average. Bo Jackson had the potential to be another Jim Brown in that his speed and strength were so much better than the other players BUT he got hurt, so we will never know.
dime Emmitt had a nice 5 year run with 3 of those years being great and 1 that is as good as an average year for JB.
Adrian Peterson is better than BOTH Emmitt and Earl and I would never bother to put him in the GOAT discussion.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
The title of the thread is top 25 running backs , and somehow babe ruth is mentioned. Pretty soon Craig will jump in so we can discuss whether Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame .
Lawrence Taylor was not a running back , Joe Perry was in aerosmith but he did do that solo thing for a bit.
@bronco2078 said:
The title of the thread is top 25 running backs , and somehow babe ruth is mentioned. Pretty soon Craig will jump in so we can discuss whether Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame .
Lawrence Taylor was not a running back , Joe Perry was in aerosmith but he did do that solo thing for a bit.
No problem....I don't think that Godwin's Law has been activated yet.
Pasted:
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1";[2][3] that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[5][6] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.
@DIMEMAN said:
Bo was very good and so was OJ! And so was Dorsett. I liked Dorsett as a runner better than Sanders. Tony was faster at hitting a very small hole and was uncatchable in the open field. And didn't run around in the backfield losing yardage!
I still remember his 99 yard TD on MNF...…...still a record that will probably never be broken! It was actually 99 1/2.
Of course you'd prefer Dorsett over sanders. He's a Cowboy, too, LOL..
Sanders blows away Dorsett in all the key categories, YPC (5.0 vs 4.3), YPG (99.8 vs 73.6) and TDs (109 vs 90) even though Dorsett played 20 more games, too. Sanders was decidedly better and it's not even debatable.
Stat wise I agree, but if the game was on the line and we couldn't afford a loss of yardage.....I would much rather have Dorsett or Smith or Brown or Payton run the ball over Sanders.
I looked at the top 5 plus Dorsett, Campbell and Curtis Martin.
I also decided to look at fumbles (both on rushing and receiving) as that hasn't been mentioned.
Avg per rush; Brown #1 at 5.2 Then Sanders @ 5.0 Payton 4.4, Dorsett, Campbell and Tomlinson 4.3, Smith 4.2, Martin at 4.0
Yards per game from scrimmage; Brown 125.5, Sanders 119, Payton 112, Tomlinson 108, Martin 103, Smith 95.5 Campbell 89 and Dorsett 82
Leading league in YPG; Brown 6 times out of 10 years. Sanders 2 out of 10, Payton 2 out of 13, Smith 2 out of 15, Campbell 1 of 7, Tomlinson 1 out of 11, Dorsett 0
Added total rushes and receptions and divided by total fumbles and found a couple of surprises. Best at hanging on to the ball was Martin at .007 and Tomlinson @ .008, Barry and Emmit were fantastic as well at .012, Payton was surprisingly (to me) @ .019 and Brown also a surprise was at .021 , Dorsett was at .026
The first thing I see is Dorsett is eliminated from GOAT consideration, lowest YPG and highest fumble rate. Campbell goes next with only 7 years in the league.
I'm (barely) sticking with Jim Brown as #1, with Barry a strong #2, I have a problem ranking the next 5 guys. Payton fumbled more than Emmitt and only gained about 7 yards more a game. Tomlinson wasn't even on my radar, but his rushing average was as good as Walter's and Emmitt's but he RARELY fumbled, 30 fumbles in 3800 touches! He was also at 108 YPG. I hadn't been thinking of Curtis Martin either, but he is at #4 all time rushing yards and 103 YPG and he fumbled even LESS than Tomlinson, 29 fumbles with just over 4000 touches, he does have the lowest rushing avg @ 4.0.
In looking more closely at just the numbers (not looking at offensive line or any other factors), I like Emmitt better than I did, Walter slips a little and Tomlinson and Martin come out of nowhere (for me) and are looking as good as anyone outside the top 2. I really think that after Brown and Sanders the next four are all about equal.
Someone said earlier that Tomlinson's ranking bothered him, I am curious to know as why. I never followed his career at all.
My top 6;
1 Jim Brown
2 Barry Sanders
3 LaDainain Tomlinson
4 Walter Payton
5 Emmitt Smith
6 Curtis Martin
P.S. I hope I got the numbers right was having trouble with the computer going back and forth between pages while checking stats. :-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@vintagefun said:
A good coach woulda got another 8 years out of Earl.
LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The thing about LT that annoys me is that almost every playoff game he was either hurt or just didn’t do much. Fair being fair I know I shouldn’t count that against him but I do, he was definitely a dynamic back though.
@perkdog said:
The thing about LT that annoys me is that almost every playoff game he was either hurt or just didn’t do much. Fair being fair I know I shouldn’t count that against him but I do, he was definitely a dynamic back though.
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
At least we can argue about the top Running Backs, if it was QB it would be a waste of time because Tom Brady is the clear cut #1 EVER and that’s not even remotely debatable.
I never meant to be taken to have said Dorsett was the GOAT. I just stated he was a very great back and in certain cases I would rather have him carry the rock than Sanders. Sanders stats are misleading to me and most everybody here is mesmerized by his circus running around. If I were building a team I would take all backs mentioned here before Sanders.
I don't know who was best and I didn't get a whole lot of Jim Brown watching time due to not being as old as dirt (no offense, dirt guys). I do know that the RB who I most enjoyed watching was Barry Sanders. Magician with power and speed. I am not a Lions fan, but really was disappointed when he decided to retire.
@perkdog said:
At least we can argue about the top Running Backs, if it was QB it would be a waste of time because Tom Brady is the clear cut #1 EVER and that’s not even remotely debatable.
@perkdog said:
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
Brown's blockers would be bigger and stronger as well. JB was also VERY fast.
Earl and Bo along with Adrian Peterson all had the physical tools to challenge Mr. Brown............but they didn't. Doesn't look like JB ever missed a game and he certainly wasn't washed up when he retired.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@perkdog said:
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
Paul - i just respectfully disagree with ya about Jim Brown.
Normally it's the defense that lays brutal hits on running backs, trying to intimidate them and wear them down. With Jim Brown it was just the opposite. Brown's running style was to lay hits on the defense, intimidate them and wear them down...and he successfully did just that.
Jim Brown has stated that he never intentionally ran out of bounds to avoid a hit. If he was close to the line and about to be tackled, rather than step out of bounds and avoid the hit like many running backs do today, Brown would stay in bounds and always fight for that extra yard.
So rather than the defense punishing Jim Brown, it was he who punished the defense.
Considering the way the NFL is today with these pansy protesting athletes making millions of dollars a year, it's arguable that Jim Brown would have actually been better playing in today's game. I doubt if many defensive players out there today would have wished for a head-on confrontation with Jim Brown.
@perkdog said:
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
Paul - i just respectfully disagree with ya about Jim Brown.
Normally it's the defense that lays brutal hits on running backs, trying to intimidate them and wear them down. With Jim Brown it was just the opposite. Brown's running style was to lay hits on the defense, intimidate them and wear them down...and he successfully did just that.
Jim Brown has stated that he never intentionally ran out of bounds to avoid a hit. If he was close to the line and about to be tackled, rather than step out of bounds and avoid the hit like many running backs do today, Brown would stay in bounds and always fight for that extra yard.
So rather than the defense punishing Jim Brown, it was he who punished the defense.
Considering the way the NFL is today with these pansy protesting athletes making millions of dollars a year, it's arguable that Jim Brown would have actually been better playing in today's game. I doubt if many defensive players out there today would have wished for a head-on confrontation with Jim Brown.
I totally agree with you Steve......and that's hard for a Cowboy fan to say to a Eagles fan.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@JoeBanzai said:
I looked at the top 5 plus Dorsett, Campbell and Curtis Martin.
I also decided to look at fumbles (both on rushing and receiving) as that hasn't been mentioned.
Avg per rush; Brown #1 at 5.2 Then Sanders @ 5.0 Payton 4.4, Dorsett, Campbell and Tomlinson 4.3, Smith 4.2, Martin at 4.0
Yards per game from scrimmage; Brown 125.5, Sanders 119, Payton 112, Tomlinson 108, Martin 103, Smith 95.5 Campbell 89 and Dorsett 82
Leading league in YPG; Brown 6 times out of 10 years. Sanders 2 out of 10, Payton 2 out of 13, Smith 2 out of 15, Campbell 1 of 7, Tomlinson 1 out of 11, Dorsett 0
Added total rushes and receptions and divided by total fumbles and found a couple of surprises. Best at hanging on to the ball was Martin at .007 and Tomlinson @ .008, Barry and Emmit were fantastic as well at .012, Payton was surprisingly (to me) @ .019 and Brown also a surprise was at .021 , Dorsett was at .026
The first thing I see is Dorsett is eliminated from GOAT consideration, lowest YPG and highest fumble rate. Campbell goes next with only 7 years in the league.
I'm (barely) sticking with Jim Brown as #1, with Barry a strong #2, I have a problem ranking the next 5 guys. Payton fumbled more than Emmitt and only gained about 7 yards more a game. Tomlinson wasn't even on my radar, but his rushing average was as good as Walter's and Emmitt's but he RARELY fumbled, 30 fumbles in 3800 touches! He was also at 108 YPG. I hadn't been thinking of Curtis Martin either, but he is at #4 all time rushing yards and 103 YPG and he fumbled even LESS than Tomlinson, 29 fumbles with just over 4000 touches, he does have the lowest rushing avg @ 4.0.
In looking more closely at just the numbers (not looking at offensive line or any other factors), I like Emmitt better than I did, Walter slips a little and Tomlinson and Martin come out of nowhere (for me) and are looking as good as anyone outside the top 2. I really think that after Brown and Sanders the next four are all about equal.
Someone said earlier that Tomlinson's ranking bothered him, I am curious to know as why. I never followed his career at all.
My top 6;
1 Jim Brown
2 Barry Sanders
3 LaDainain Tomlinson
4 Walter Payton
5 Emmitt Smith
6 Curtis Martin
P.S. I hope I got the numbers right was having trouble with the computer going back and forth between pages while checking stats. :-)
I see it the same at 1 & 2. Coin flip. I think there is good separation between Brown/ Sanders and the rest of that group
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@perkdog said:
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
Paul - i just respectfully disagree with ya about Jim Brown.
Normally it's the defense that lays brutal hits on running backs, trying to intimidate them and wear them down. With Jim Brown it was just the opposite. Brown's running style was to lay hits on the defense, intimidate them and wear them down...and he successfully did just that.
Jim Brown has stated that he never intentionally ran out of bounds to avoid a hit. If he was close to the line and about to be tackled, rather than step out of bounds and avoid the hit like many running backs do today, Brown would stay in bounds and always fight for that extra yard.
So rather than the defense punishing Jim Brown, it was he who punished the defense.
Considering the way the NFL is today with these pansy protesting athletes making millions of dollars a year, it's arguable that Jim Brown would have actually been better playing in today's game. I doubt if many defensive players out there today would have wished for a head-on confrontation with Jim Brown.
I totally agree with you Steve......and that's hard for a Cowboy fan to say to a Eagles fan.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
Yet he found his way into the end zone 100 times. Yes he was not your guy for 36 inches and a cloud of dust for sure . Outside of the red zone he was a threat to score on every touch. No running back stressed out a D outside of the red zone more then Sanders. There was always 7 or 8 guys in the box when Sanders was on the field.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting up averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
Yet he found his way into the end zone 100 times. Yes he was not your guy for 36 inches and a cloud of dust for sure . Outside of the red zone he was a threat to score on every touch. No running back stressed out a D outside of the red zone more then Sanders. There was always 7 or 8 guys in the box when Sanders was on the field.
mark
Great question mark will always be--how much better would Sander's have been on another team. That was the paradox of being a Lions fan, you would have had to lose him to find out.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It should also be noted that Smith had the benefit of running behind the arguably the greatest OL in NFL history, a team that was routinely ahead while winning most of the time, while Sanders was in Detroit. That difference further widens the gap between Sanders and Smith. The truth of the matter is any competent NFL back would have done quite well running behind that OL in Dallas during that time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Lastly, Sanders, even while playing in Detroit, Sanders averaged .71 TDs per game while Smith averaged .77 TDs per game playing for a team that won the Super Boiwl three times.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
Yet he found his way into the end zone 100 times. Yes he was not your guy for 36 inches and a cloud of dust for sure . Outside of the red zone he was a threat to score on every touch. No running back stressed out a D outside of the red zone more then Sanders. There was always 7 or 8 guys in the box when Sanders was on the field.
mark
Great question mark will always be--how much better would Sander's have been on another team. That was the paradox of being a Lions fan, you would have had to lose him to find out.
Had he played for Dallas behind that line, he'd have rewritten the record books.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
Since we are tossing numbers around, let's pull up the gold standard of QB/receiver tandems with Joe Montana--Jerry Rice. Rice had a career per catch average of 14.7 yards. Combine that with Montana's .63 completion average. That would give the combo 9.26 yards per attempt. I didn't break out the Young numbers but a pretty close estimate should suffice.
9,26 yards per attempt is way better than Jim Brown's or Barry Sander's attempt per carry. Of course though the running back is a different position where the value is pounding out 3 and 4 yards. The occasional breakout run for a long score is a plus. Barry's style of play more mimicked the receiver position than the classic back.
Look back to the Sander's era and you will see close to .500 w/l over his career. A GOAT on offense has to do better than that.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
Since we are tossing numbers around, let's pull up the gold standard of QB/receiver tandems with Joe Montana--Jerry Rice. Rice had a career per catch average of 14.7 yards. Combine that with Montana's .63 completion average. That would give the combo 9.26 yards per attempt. I didn't break out the Young numbers but a pretty close estimate should suffice.
9,26 yards per attempt is way better than Jim Brown's or Barry Sander's attempt per carry. Of course though the running back is a different position where the value is pounding out 3 and 4 yards. The occasional breakout run for a long score is a plus. Barry's style of play more mimicked the receiver position than the classic back.
Look back to the Sander's era and you will see close to .500 w/l over his career. A GOAT on offense has to do better than that.
Even the most gifted player is only as good as the talent around him. Speaking of Joe Montana, have you ever looked the list of QBs with whom Barry Sanders played in Detroit? Since we're comparing the two players, let's compare the rosters of the Dallas Cowboys vs the Detroit Lions during this era. Smith played with not just one, but multiple HOFers at QB, WR and OL, along with a borderline HOF TE. Sanders played with Rodney Peete.
Sanders touched the ball an avberage of 22.3 times a game during his career. What WR can even approach that kind of usage?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
ya but , there was that year when Dimeman had smith on his fantasy football team and he finally managed to beat that 12 year old who won every other year. Thats what made smith the best ever.
Oops I got off topic there, what I meant to say was , I don't care how many steroids Pete Rose was on he could never beat billy jean king , that match was rigged
@grote15 said:
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting upB) averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit?? I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
I realize that .8 times a bunch of carry's adds up over a long time, but again games are won by points not yards. Smiths style of running (North & South) is much better for the team than Sanders style...what ever you want to call it. Reminds me of a chicken with his head cut off! The Dallas O-line wouldn't know where to block for Sanders. Smith helped Dallas win way more than Sanders helped Detroit win.
You can't have it both ways Grote. When I try to talk good about Aikman....you claim it was Smith that got the Cowboys the wins. Now It's not Smith any more....it's the O-line.
Bottom line is you are mesmerized by Sanders......I am not....and never will be!
Also I will take the back with the Record for Career Total Yards.....TD's.....carry's.....and Super Bowl wins!!!!
Jon, I know Smith is always going to be your guy and I don't expect to change your opinion, even though that opinion is in the clear minority for anyone but Cowboy fans. Smith was a great back, no question, but it certainly helped to be playing on a Super Bowl team with multiple HOFers at the skill positions as well as the best OL in history. I don't think any running back with a sane mind would prefer to play in Detroit vs Dallas during that era and for obvious reasons. There is also a reason that Sanders is routinely ranked higher than Smith on these all time greatest lists~he was the better running back.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Punters actually have by far, the highest yards gained per play average of any other player.
Of course there's that thing whereby they always have to give up the football on a punt, barring a fumble recovery. But I've read where the punter's union is trying to get the rules changed on that.
Comments
Stat wise I agree, but if the game was on the line and we couldn't afford a loss of yardage.....I would much rather have Dorsett or Smith or Brown or Payton run the ball over Sanders.
Wanted to note that Alan Page was the first defensive player to be named league MVP.
perk, Earl Campbel will give your team 3 good years, and 1 of them that can be considered great. Get real on Skoal brother, he didn't last. In fact his best year YPC is the same as Browns' lifetime average. Bo Jackson had the potential to be another Jim Brown in that his speed and strength were so much better than the other players BUT he got hurt, so we will never know.
dime Emmitt had a nice 5 year run with 3 of those years being great and 1 that is as good as an average year for JB.
Adrian Peterson is better than BOTH Emmitt and Earl and I would never bother to put him in the GOAT discussion.
I remember the Oakland Raiders wanting to sign Jim Brown when he was 49 years old, to use him in short yardage situations. The Commissioner nixed it.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
The title of the thread is top 25 running backs , and somehow babe ruth is mentioned. Pretty soon Craig will jump in so we can discuss whether Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame .
Lawrence Taylor was not a running back , Joe Perry was in aerosmith but he did do that solo thing for a bit.
No problem....I don't think that Godwin's Law has been activated yet.
Pasted:
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1";[2][3] that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[5][6] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.
I'll take Chuck Muncie.
Was faster than most defensive backs too!
I looked at the top 5 plus Dorsett, Campbell and Curtis Martin.
I also decided to look at fumbles (both on rushing and receiving) as that hasn't been mentioned.
Avg per rush; Brown #1 at 5.2 Then Sanders @ 5.0 Payton 4.4, Dorsett, Campbell and Tomlinson 4.3, Smith 4.2, Martin at 4.0
Yards per game from scrimmage; Brown 125.5, Sanders 119, Payton 112, Tomlinson 108, Martin 103, Smith 95.5 Campbell 89 and Dorsett 82
Leading league in YPG; Brown 6 times out of 10 years. Sanders 2 out of 10, Payton 2 out of 13, Smith 2 out of 15, Campbell 1 of 7, Tomlinson 1 out of 11, Dorsett 0
Added total rushes and receptions and divided by total fumbles and found a couple of surprises. Best at hanging on to the ball was Martin at .007 and Tomlinson @ .008, Barry and Emmit were fantastic as well at .012, Payton was surprisingly (to me) @ .019 and Brown also a surprise was at .021 , Dorsett was at .026
The first thing I see is Dorsett is eliminated from GOAT consideration, lowest YPG and highest fumble rate. Campbell goes next with only 7 years in the league.
I'm (barely) sticking with Jim Brown as #1, with Barry a strong #2, I have a problem ranking the next 5 guys. Payton fumbled more than Emmitt and only gained about 7 yards more a game. Tomlinson wasn't even on my radar, but his rushing average was as good as Walter's and Emmitt's but he RARELY fumbled, 30 fumbles in 3800 touches! He was also at 108 YPG. I hadn't been thinking of Curtis Martin either, but he is at #4 all time rushing yards and 103 YPG and he fumbled even LESS than Tomlinson, 29 fumbles with just over 4000 touches, he does have the lowest rushing avg @ 4.0.
In looking more closely at just the numbers (not looking at offensive line or any other factors), I like Emmitt better than I did, Walter slips a little and Tomlinson and Martin come out of nowhere (for me) and are looking as good as anyone outside the top 2. I really think that after Brown and Sanders the next four are all about equal.
Someone said earlier that Tomlinson's ranking bothered him, I am curious to know as why. I never followed his career at all.
My top 6;
1 Jim Brown
2 Barry Sanders
3 LaDainain Tomlinson
4 Walter Payton
5 Emmitt Smith
6 Curtis Martin
P.S. I hope I got the numbers right was having trouble with the computer going back and forth between pages while checking stats. :-)
Interesting analysis there...
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A good coach woulda got another 8 years out of Earl.
Well I'm no Dallaskinhoops that's fer sher!
True dat!
LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Dallas Light.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The thing about LT that annoys me is that almost every playoff game he was either hurt or just didn’t do much. Fair being fair I know I shouldn’t count that against him but I do, he was definitely a dynamic back though.
the La in LaDanian is french for girlie-man
SteveK, I understand that Brown would be more stronger and definitely a beast with today’s training without question however you still have it in your mind that he would be destroying Lineman and LB’ers like he did back in the 60’s and it’s simply not true. Reason I put Barry Sanders ahead is his ridiculous athleticism, you have seen what he did and it was amazing. I’m talking about these players at the top of their game, so to say Earl Campbell gets downgraded because of his injuries and shorter career then I can’t argue that but at the top of his game he was unbelievable with the power and speed combination. I’d say the most gutsy performance I’ve ever seen from a RB was Emmitt Smith against the Giants when he hurt his shoulder and still toughed out some big plays for his team, no player today would ever do that in my opinion. Bronco Nagurski was larger than life back in his day but his overall stats don’t show it.
At least we can argue about the top Running Backs, if it was QB it would be a waste of time because Tom Brady is the clear cut #1 EVER and that’s not even remotely debatable.
I never meant to be taken to have said Dorsett was the GOAT. I just stated he was a very great back and in certain cases I would rather have him carry the rock than Sanders. Sanders stats are misleading to me and most everybody here is mesmerized by his circus running around. If I were building a team I would take all backs mentioned here before Sanders.
Wow Dime! I always try to find ways to agree with you but your crazy with your last post in regards to taking Sanders LAST!
I don't know who was best and I didn't get a whole lot of Jim Brown watching time due to not being as old as dirt (no offense, dirt guys). I do know that the RB who I most enjoyed watching was Barry Sanders. Magician with power and speed. I am not a Lions fan, but really was disappointed when he decided to retire.
Of active players...that is true!
Brown's blockers would be bigger and stronger as well. JB was also VERY fast.
Earl and Bo along with Adrian Peterson all had the physical tools to challenge Mr. Brown............but they didn't. Doesn't look like JB ever missed a game and he certainly wasn't washed up when he retired.
Here again I am not saying he was not good...….I'm just not liking the way he runs. I liked all the other guys if I was picking.
As far as Brown....I think he would be just as good today as he was then. He was a beast....so was Campbell.
Paul - i just respectfully disagree with ya about Jim Brown.
Normally it's the defense that lays brutal hits on running backs, trying to intimidate them and wear them down. With Jim Brown it was just the opposite. Brown's running style was to lay hits on the defense, intimidate them and wear them down...and he successfully did just that.
Jim Brown has stated that he never intentionally ran out of bounds to avoid a hit. If he was close to the line and about to be tackled, rather than step out of bounds and avoid the hit like many running backs do today, Brown would stay in bounds and always fight for that extra yard.
So rather than the defense punishing Jim Brown, it was he who punished the defense.
Considering the way the NFL is today with these pansy protesting athletes making millions of dollars a year, it's arguable that Jim Brown would have actually been better playing in today's game. I doubt if many defensive players out there today would have wished for a head-on confrontation with Jim Brown.
I totally agree with you Steve......and that's hard for a Cowboy fan to say to a Eagles fan.
LOL
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It’s all good Steve, I have no issue with any of the top tier guys being flipped around differently as to who was the best. Always a fun topic
What is misleading about averaging 5.0 YPC, 100 yards rushing a game (on AVERAGE) and 11 TDs a season (again, on average)? Nothing misleading about those stats despite your faulty recollection.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I see it the same at 1 & 2. Coin flip. I think there is good separation between Brown/ Sanders and the rest of that group
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Jon - Please don't let that ever happen again.
Sanders was not effective on short plays where you needed to plow through the middle for a couple yards. At the goal line he was on the bench. Great man and athlete but he is at the lower part of the top ten, not the higher part.
Yet he found his way into the end zone 100 times. Yes he was not your guy for 36 inches and a cloud of dust for sure . Outside of the red zone he was a threat to score on every touch. No running back stressed out a D outside of the red zone more then Sanders. There was always 7 or 8 guys in the box when Sanders was on the field.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
He wasn't a goal line back per set but it is a myth that he wasn't effective in short yardage situations, if you take a closer look at his stats.
That said, his numbers speak for themselves. To average 5 yards a rush each time you touch the ball and 100 yards per game over the course of a career is simply exceptional.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Didn't Sanders also lead the NFL in yards lost? I like Emitt and Brown running better every time. They hardly ever lost yards!
He averaged 5 yards per carry and 100 yards per game rushing. Not sure how many yards you can lose putting up averages like that while clearly outperforming both Smith and Dorsett.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would rather have a back (Smith) that averaged 4.2 and hardly ever lost yards than a back (Sanders) who averaged 5.0. Whoopee a whole .8 yard more, but lost yardage a lot. He could cost you games. Who did better during these 2 backs careers...…..Dallas or Detroit??
I'll take Smith (who had more TD's) over Sanders every time. They keep score by TD's not yards.
Great question mark will always be--how much better would Sander's have been on another team. That was the paradox of being a Lions fan, you would have had to lose him to find out.
The difference between 4.2 YPC and 5.0 YPC over the course of a career is huge and adds up to a lot of yardage. You need to brush up on your math skills, Jon.
Sanders was better than Smith. I doubt anyone but a Cowboy fan would assert otherwise as that fact is fairly evident to anyone.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It should also be noted that Smith had the benefit of running behind the arguably the greatest OL in NFL history, a team that was routinely ahead while winning most of the time, while Sanders was in Detroit. That difference further widens the gap between Sanders and Smith. The truth of the matter is any competent NFL back would have done quite well running behind that OL in Dallas during that time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Lastly, Sanders, even while playing in Detroit, Sanders averaged .71 TDs per game while Smith averaged .77 TDs per game playing for a team that won the Super Boiwl three times.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Had he played for Dallas behind that line, he'd have rewritten the record books.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Since we are tossing numbers around, let's pull up the gold standard of QB/receiver tandems with Joe Montana--Jerry Rice. Rice had a career per catch average of 14.7 yards. Combine that with Montana's .63 completion average. That would give the combo 9.26 yards per attempt. I didn't break out the Young numbers but a pretty close estimate should suffice.
9,26 yards per attempt is way better than Jim Brown's or Barry Sander's attempt per carry. Of course though the running back is a different position where the value is pounding out 3 and 4 yards. The occasional breakout run for a long score is a plus. Barry's style of play more mimicked the receiver position than the classic back.
Look back to the Sander's era and you will see close to .500 w/l over his career. A GOAT on offense has to do better than that.
Even the most gifted player is only as good as the talent around him. Speaking of Joe Montana, have you ever looked the list of QBs with whom Barry Sanders played in Detroit? Since we're comparing the two players, let's compare the rosters of the Dallas Cowboys vs the Detroit Lions during this era. Smith played with not just one, but multiple HOFers at QB, WR and OL, along with a borderline HOF TE. Sanders played with Rodney Peete.
Sanders touched the ball an avberage of 22.3 times a game during his career. What WR can even approach that kind of usage?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
ya but , there was that year when Dimeman had smith on his fantasy football team and he finally managed to beat that 12 year old who won every other year. Thats what made smith the best ever.
Oops I got off topic there, what I meant to say was , I don't care how many steroids Pete Rose was on he could never beat billy jean king , that match was rigged
I realize that .8 times a bunch of carry's adds up over a long time, but again games are won by points not yards. Smiths style of running (North & South) is much better for the team than Sanders style...what ever you want to call it. Reminds me of a chicken with his head cut off! The Dallas O-line wouldn't know where to block for Sanders. Smith helped Dallas win way more than Sanders helped Detroit win.
You can't have it both ways Grote. When I try to talk good about Aikman....you claim it was Smith that got the Cowboys the wins. Now It's not Smith any more....it's the O-line.
Bottom line is you are mesmerized by Sanders......I am not....and never will be!
Also I will take the back with the Record for Career Total Yards.....TD's.....carry's.....and Super Bowl wins!!!!
Jon, I know Smith is always going to be your guy and I don't expect to change your opinion, even though that opinion is in the clear minority for anyone but Cowboy fans. Smith was a great back, no question, but it certainly helped to be playing on a Super Bowl team with multiple HOFers at the skill positions as well as the best OL in history. I don't think any running back with a sane mind would prefer to play in Detroit vs Dallas during that era and for obvious reasons. There is also a reason that Sanders is routinely ranked higher than Smith on these all time greatest lists~he was the better running back.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Punters actually have by far, the highest yards gained per play average of any other player.
Of course there's that thing whereby they always have to give up the football on a punt, barring a fumble recovery. But I've read where the punter's union is trying to get the rules changed on that.
+1
+1
I just wanted the 100th comment post for the thread.
Carry on...........