First off, unless the person has a win at any price mentality only then will it affect you. If you have the connections, you will get the coins. An FYI: rarely have I ever lost to Delloy on something I really wanted-rarely.
Andy, please the heat is making me sick enough:_ now this Indeed. It is impossible to think of Bill Jones and not think “Legend”._ One of the two needs to leave-and it is not me. You knwo darn well how nice this coin probobaly is-and for a wannabe dealer to be bragin about a reject? You know the coin is not CAC. _ please..I was very happy to end up with an 1838 quarter eagle that was one of Mr. Hanson's "rejects."_
Besides, its bad if you think your beat off in the AU world. Come to my league where there are real battles.
Again, only if the collector is a monster will you have a problem. If your sharp and have the right people-you can beat them and build a great collection.
It would be hard for a whale to corner the market in basically any US Coin series. Even the "rare" stuff is generally available for the right price. 1909s vdb, 1916 standing liberty quarter, 1916-d mercury dime, etc.
It would be rather easy, though, to drive prices up and push people out of the esoteric markets like civil war tokens, HTT, merchant tokens and the like. That's what I'm really referring to in this thread, but the concept can be applied (as has been suggested) to collecting by die state, die variety, etc.
Purely hypothetical scenario.
It would be hard for me to continue to collect in a limited market if I had a lot to accomplish with a ton of competition.
I once tried to go after Lesher Dollars, for example. And they were already popular!
Well, it didnt take long for me to lose interest.
Not because they weren't fascinating. But waiting for one of the varieties to appear 9ver the years, just to get blown out of the water at auction became too frustrating to be enjoyable
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@Crypto said:
Must serious specialties already have numerous wealthy members. A whale would only skew auction results during the bulk accumulation phase of their interests. A couple of years later you might notice a few reactionary dealers on the floor with crazy prices on common coins due to a weird auction result for a special piece. Don’t worry, Those aren’t the type of dealers that would have much a specialist would be interested in.
Part of this thread's concept was me thinking back to when Realone entered the Trade dollar group and started buying everything. I believe that caused a stir among the people here that devoted a good number of years searching for the harder varieties. Realizing that he had money and was entering the hunt
That scuffle had zero to do with money and everything to do with attitude and willingness to do research/homework.
For those who thought that I had said that I bought one of Mr. Hanson’s “rejects” for some ulterior motive, I met exactly what I wrote. When I saw the photo of Mr. Hanson’s 1834 quarter eagle, I knew I would never catch him. The coin is simply wonderful. I’m happy to have the set so that I can do an exhibit of it in six months or so.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
This is already happening with toned Morgans. Because there is no series to complete, there are several deep-pocketed individuals who strongly pursue nything they like. This has pushed the very top of the market into the stratosphere. Witness the final NL sale from Legend. Now, it is a few different people so that’s a bit different, but the effect is similar. It can be frustrating at times when you cant purchase a coin you like for anywhere near the prevailing market value (assuming there are reasonable comps).
As someone else pointed out, these types of hyper-aggressive bidders often don’t last long. The two times I have pushed a coin up to 2x what anyone else was willing to bid (and lost), the coin has been reoffered less than 3 years later.
The thread is not about @BillJones.....you @specialist should contact him directly if you should have some merit for your plea
We call your approach high maka maka around where I live
PS: PM me if you care to know what it means
All of us real dealers have a saying: cheap is never cheap enough. I wouldn't be bragging about a reject.
Anyway, in our last sale, we had MULTIPLE buyers of the morgans, This sale will be the same. No whales-just pent up demand. Always remember to buy the very best, you generally have to be prepared to over pay a bit.
A "whale" you'd never want to challenge is a TDN or Simpson type when they are locked on. Like I said, we beat delloy many times. Going against a big guy should not always be something to worry about, Its any one with a "must win" at all costs attitude. And even then, once they are done, the field is back to all yours. At that point usually prices really cool down.
Sorry, I can't imagine any whales on AU coins.
P.S> There is a real whale swimming around near where I live on the jersey shore-big thing they think it might be hurt. don't think he buys coins.
@tradedollarnut said:
Perhaps it’s the terminology. ‘Reject’ begs the question “why”. Duplicates from a great collection on the other hand are often great coins
I was thinking the same.
Many "rejects" were cac. A nicer piece had been purchased and the lower graded piece was no longer neccesary
@Crypto said:
Must serious specialties already have numerous wealthy members. A whale would only skew auction results during the bulk accumulation phase of their interests. A couple of years later you might notice a few reactionary dealers on the floor with crazy prices on common coins due to a weird auction result for a special piece. Don’t worry, Those aren’t the type of dealers that would have much a specialist would be interested in.
Part of this thread's concept was me thinking back to when Realone entered the Trade dollar group and started buying everything. I believe that caused a stir among the people here that devoted a good number of years searching for the harder varieties. Realizing that he had money and was entering the hunt
Realone isn't a whale, he is an annoyance. I for one never lost a coin to him that I had my sights set on. If anything he has allowed us to liquidate our under-grades dupes and flip them through auction houses or Rich Uhrich for a profit.
While he has some money, he never really had a clue so the threat of competition was minimal. I knew some of the younger guys lost what they thought were going to be cherry picks to him at auction. But i am personally ok with that as no one has a right to a cherry pick.
I was an intern there with coins in the early 90s, I am not famous either but found they are typically eager to engage the community but slightly overwhelmed with the scope of their responsibilities.
Comments
First off, unless the person has a win at any price mentality only then will it affect you. If you have the connections, you will get the coins. An FYI: rarely have I ever lost to Delloy on something I really wanted-rarely.
Andy, please the heat is making me sick enough:_ now this Indeed. It is impossible to think of Bill Jones and not think “Legend”._ One of the two needs to leave-and it is not me. You knwo darn well how nice this coin probobaly is-and for a wannabe dealer to be bragin about a reject? You know the coin is not CAC. _ please..I was very happy to end up with an 1838 quarter eagle that was one of Mr. Hanson's "rejects."_
Besides, its bad if you think your beat off in the AU world. Come to my league where there are real battles.
Again, only if the collector is a monster will you have a problem. If your sharp and have the right people-you can beat them and build a great collection.
It would be hard for a whale to corner the market in basically any US Coin series. Even the "rare" stuff is generally available for the right price. 1909s vdb, 1916 standing liberty quarter, 1916-d mercury dime, etc.
It would be rather easy, though, to drive prices up and push people out of the esoteric markets like civil war tokens, HTT, merchant tokens and the like. That's what I'm really referring to in this thread, but the concept can be applied (as has been suggested) to collecting by die state, die variety, etc.
Purely hypothetical scenario.
It would be hard for me to continue to collect in a limited market if I had a lot to accomplish with a ton of competition.
I once tried to go after Lesher Dollars, for example. And they were already popular!
Well, it didnt take long for me to lose interest.
Not because they weren't fascinating. But waiting for one of the varieties to appear 9ver the years, just to get blown out of the water at auction became too frustrating to be enjoyable
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
That scuffle had zero to do with money and everything to do with attitude and willingness to do research/homework.
...Interesting thread...I can’t wait to be a Whale
For those who thought that I had said that I bought one of Mr. Hanson’s “rejects” for some ulterior motive, I met exactly what I wrote. When I saw the photo of Mr. Hanson’s 1834 quarter eagle, I knew I would never catch him. The coin is simply wonderful. I’m happy to have the set so that I can do an exhibit of it in six months or so.
When the whale dies, the collection will most likely be dispersed quickly back to the market pushing prices down.
This is already happening with toned Morgans. Because there is no series to complete, there are several deep-pocketed individuals who strongly pursue nything they like. This has pushed the very top of the market into the stratosphere. Witness the final NL sale from Legend. Now, it is a few different people so that’s a bit different, but the effect is similar. It can be frustrating at times when you cant purchase a coin you like for anywhere near the prevailing market value (assuming there are reasonable comps).
As someone else pointed out, these types of hyper-aggressive bidders often don’t last long. The two times I have pushed a coin up to 2x what anyone else was willing to bid (and lost), the coin has been reoffered less than 3 years later.
"beat off in the AU world" would be a great registry set name
WHALE WHALE WHALE
The thread is not about @BillJones.....you @specialist should contact him directly if you should have some merit for your plea
We call your approach high maka maka around where I live
PS: PM me if you care to know what it means
All of us real dealers have a saying: cheap is never cheap enough. I wouldn't be bragging about a reject.
Anyway, in our last sale, we had MULTIPLE buyers of the morgans, This sale will be the same. No whales-just pent up demand. Always remember to buy the very best, you generally have to be prepared to over pay a bit.
A "whale" you'd never want to challenge is a TDN or Simpson type when they are locked on. Like I said, we beat delloy many times. Going against a big guy should not always be something to worry about, Its any one with a "must win" at all costs attitude. And even then, once they are done, the field is back to all yours. At that point usually prices really cool down.
Sorry, I can't imagine any whales on AU coins.
P.S> There is a real whale swimming around near where I live on the jersey shore-big thing they think it might be hurt. don't think he buys coins.
This has already happened to me but he is buying at the very highest possible level, so there are still plenty of good coins for me.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Perhaps it’s the terminology. ‘Reject’ begs the question “why”. Duplicates from a great collection on the other hand are often great coins
I was thinking the same.
Many "rejects" were cac. A nicer piece had been purchased and the lower graded piece was no longer neccesary
Great topic.
I was surprised to see a certain whale jump into my pool.
The only reason I noticed is when I was knocked down from 34 to 35, lol.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Realone isn't a whale, he is an annoyance. I for one never lost a coin to him that I had my sights set on. If anything he has allowed us to liquidate our under-grades dupes and flip them through auction houses or Rich Uhrich for a profit.
While he has some money, he never really had a clue so the threat of competition was minimal. I knew some of the younger guys lost what they thought were going to be cherry picks to him at auction. But i am personally ok with that as no one has a right to a cherry pick.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I was an intern there with coins in the early 90s, I am not famous either but found they are typically eager to engage the community but slightly overwhelmed with the scope of their responsibilities.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set