1851-C Gold Dollar - Real or Fake?
C0inCollect0r
Posts: 374 ✭✭
Hi folks,
Just looking for opinions on this 1851-C Gold Dollar - Is it real or fake?
0
C0inCollect0r
Posts: 374 ✭✭
Comments
HA coin
What is the lump in the mm?
Another one w/a clear C
Fake
Yup, no good, imo, mushy detail, especially liberty in her head dress, thats what stuck out to me first.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
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Fake
The luster also looks off.
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I think it is fake too.
Doesn't look good !!!
Coins like this are why I only buy certified gold coins. I also much prefer they have a CAC sticker. I could easily be fooled by this coin.
Fake. Bad centers and flat dentiles. The 1851-C gold dollar is the most common Charlotte gold dollar, and it is generally well made. Here is a MInt State example.
OK, this is not my series, but Bill I am trying to see two things on your specimen:
1 - "LIBERTY" is jumbled to the point that I can not read it
2 - Denticles on obverse 11-3:00 not well defined & reverse 2-500PM
I am just trying to figure out what makes the OP fake besides those characteristics - I don't doubt your expertise, just trying to learn.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Looks very mushy compared with pictures on CoinFacts. Some dies show poorly defined denticles, but not quite as bad as this one, and the overall detail at the level of wear exhibited on the OP coin was always much sharper.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
First, my coin is a later die state, and the centers are a bit weak. I don't have an operable super close-up camera that show the "LIBERTY" any better. The coin is 13 mm in diameter. “LIBERTY” is readable.
Second the coin was struck slightly off-center, and perhaps the dies were not quite in perfect alignment when the piece was struck. That would explain the uneven definition of the dentiles. This coin was made at the Charlotte Mint, and it has been my experience that the Charlotte Mint had the poorest quality control of the three southern mints. That’s why many of their coins are harder to find nice that coins from the Dahlonega Mint. The 1851-C gold dollar was one of their better products, but it was not as well made as the best Philadelphia Mint pieces.
Third, the higher relief portions of the hair detail are razor sharp. That is missing on the OP counterfeit. This is not always 100% indicator. Some genuine coins are weak in that area. I could show examples of the 1850-D and 1854-D gold dollars that were weak in those areas from the beginning.
Fourth, PCGS thought that this coin is genuine and graded it MS-63.
Beyond that I don’t know what to tell you.
I think Bill just has a blurry picture. Making the the detail look worse than it is.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
I don't like the look of it. Too lustrous with too mushy a strike, and lacking details that I would expect to see - particularly Liberty's hair curls near the neck/shoulder truncation. The 1851-C Dollar is typically the best struck in the Charlotte dollar series. I would be very wary of the one in the OP.
'dude
Most definitely real. Countefieters back in the mid 1850's (post 49'ers) didn't know how to fake a coin this good.
What makes you think that it couldn't have been made last month or last year?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, this is not a contemporary counterfeit. It was made sometime between the 1960s and the present.
Anybody got their set of ANACS article reprints handy? Pretty sure this one is in there. Check the ding on the "C" mint mark.
If I had to guess, the OP's coin was struck in the 1980's.
As I look again, the hair detail is quite bad all over on the OP but not Bill's coin.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Bill's example is sweet!
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One of the diagnostics for counterfeits in the old days was just that. If a gold coin had full blazing luster with the details of an XF (you had to know about strike weakness) it was usually a struck counterfeit.
My eyes focused to the Stars immediately. I saw them sharp, mushy, incomplete.......just screamed find another to me.
bob
Have a look at these coins:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1851-c-g-1-au58-ngc-variety-1/a/1238-5726.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1851-c-g-1-au58-pcgs-variety-1/a/1233-4384.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1851-c-g-1-au58-pcgs-variety-1/a/1233-4384.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1851-c-g-1-au55-ngc-variety-3/a/1231-6325.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#
From this list:
https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=51+790+231+3951+3952++6411&Nty=1&Ntk=PCGS Group Number&Ntt=7514&ic3=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-PreviousPricesHeritageExpanded-081514
It sure seems to me like there are other examples of weakly struck coins with rather strong luster, but I was unable to locate one slightly off center as well like the OP's coin.
Not saying this coin isn't counterfeit, but I did want to share those details with the audience -- like many of the much more experienced numismatists around here, my counterfeit antennae stood at attention when I saw the coin that @C0inCollect0r posted.
Have fun...Mike
Thanks for all the replies everyone. The luster looked off to me also but I had never seen a Charlotte Gold Dollar counterfeit before personally - most seemed to always be Philly coins.
My main focus is $2 1/2 Indians, but this has the look of the fake indians. Odd luster mixed with mushy details. I would avoid it.
Simple PCGS says the most counterfeited coins they see is small gold.
Buy it in plastic just for the authentication process.
Gold dollar counterfeits have been veiwed as dangerous for a long time (Since I started collecting in the 1960s and before). It is one of the factors that has hurt the collector participation in the series.