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Wanna buy an 1854-S half eagle?
KollectorKing
Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
http://news.coinupdate.com/heritage-chosen-to-auction-newly-discovered-1854-s-half-eagle/
Here’s a PCGS au 58+ for comparison:
2
KollectorKing
Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
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No thanks. I already have one.
I predict a record price realized for the issue
Dang I am impressed
I'm sure this will find its way into the Hansen collection.
Someone is going to figure that out and the price is going to be run up to crazy money. Easy for me to say but Mr. Hansen should drop out quickly and let the folks have it at crazy money (possibly in order to sell it to him). Then he should wait a few years until the winner begs him to take it off their hands at a big discount!
Amazing !!!
Because that’s how you build a great collection. Sometimes...you gotta pay the ransom. Opportunity may be worth more than the price
I want to ask if Mr. Hansen is in your "league" and who would win the coin if the two of you were the last bidders but sometimes I act like a mature man with "class" so I won't ask that question.
I find this very interesting and the bidding should be exciting and fierce! I will be spectating for sure.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
He would - if he cared enough
I hope it doesn't use up all the money at the WFOM auction.
In NGC plastic and without a CAC sticker?
Then again, since the last one appeared for sale in 1982, you may be on to something.
TDN has it right.... but will be interesting to watch. Cheers, RickO
I think that just surpassed everything else in my "neato" file.
That just has to be the DuPont coin, I wonder what type of effect the lack of provenance will have on the outcome of the auction. Is no story a net neg when one could spend millions on basically stolen property? Or is there enough to know that it can’t be proven either way, would NGC be liable ?
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
They got a neat insert on the holder.
You don't know that. You can believe that, and bid or not bid accordingly, but you do not know that.
Stupid insert. The grading service blew it. They needed to put a rainbow into a pot of gold1 NOT! Probably done to give the rookie collector/owner a little thrill buying into his happiness for the short time he held the slab. The new owner should get that thing crossed into a holder with a normal label ASAP.
So bid accordingly.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Surely there must be photos of the DuPont coin even if not publicly published. If so, the family should come forward.
I like the holder and I trust NGC's judgment.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
In what do you base that “surely?”
Logically speaking, who has a collection of that caliber that doesn't inventory and image them? Even back before digital cameras, the internet, etc., that sounds incredibly stupid. And without proof, even if this was the DuPont coin, the family is SOL.
As I said in another thread about this coin, I worked with the DuPont family in examining certain other rarities with a view towards possible recovery of stolen pieces. They had no pictures of those coins, some of them rarer than the 1854-S $5.
I was not aware of that post. Sorry.
The coin and the comments in this thread confuse me.
Why are you folks making stuff up? The coin was compared to photographs of the Dupont coin and determined to NOT be the Dupont coin.
https://coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2018/04/1854-s-half-eagle-discovery-of-a-lifetime.all.html
It is NOT the DuPont coin. NGC compared it to photos of the DuPont coin.
Because we hopefully are critical thinkers and ask questions as we should. I really don't think what has been said is "making stuff up". We naturally wonder what the basis for their (ATS') opinion is; that should be expected and we should not of necessity eat what is spoon-fed to us.
If indeed their photographs of the DuPont coin are those that we have seen then many of us rightfully question whether the present coin is conclusively not the same one.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Agreed that and why the secrecy of it’s origin? Circumstantial sure but people have been hung for less.
One of a few stolen, one shows up years later looking processed with no back story. Only to be “certified” by the clear 2nd rate player in the field who soaks in the publicity. To be immediately auctioned before too much looking into can go down by the public.
It is how I would sell the DuPont coin, Numismatic opinions are a dime a dozen and often bought...Breen done before
Lucky for the auction house that the opportunity cost should placate any logicial objections. People like trophies
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It's nice to see that the conspiracy theorists are out in full force.
From Coin World:
An EF in 1962 is probably a high grade AU by today's standards. I doubt a thief would destroy that much detail artificially (1) because of the huge hit in value and (2) the amount of alteration would be significant and hard to cover up.
Is there anyone around with a 1962 Stack's auction catalog that can help us out?
What photos? They should write a point by point Analysis paper with all artifacts imbedded and sign their names to it for all to see.
Anything less is basically the number 2 grading company making a “just trust me” publicity grab with no real skin in the game or risk of peer review.
While they legit coin guys sure, but they are really just guessing too. They are just trying to get mileage out of their guess without the liability of really going on the record.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Why is the onus on the grading service? It isn't their job or problem. They grade coins and are not forensic numismatists.
That's a great idea. Give the owner of the actual stolen coin a point-by-point analysis of the things to alter on the coin.
The #2 grading company would not risk there reputation by erroneously certifying the coin that way. Whoever has the rights to the stolen coin (Duponts or insurance company), would certainly attempt to prove that it WAS the same coin which would not only make NGC potentially liable, but also sully their relationship.
So, yes, I choose to believe NGC who looked at photos and not a bunch of armchair warriors who have neither seen the coin or the photos in person and are just doubting for the sake of doubting. There is not one scintilla of evidence refuting the NGC version.
More to the point, what evidence is there refuting NGC's expert opinion?
NGC invites this second guessing by not publishing the steps they took to ensure it’s not the same coin.
Ludicrous.
Riddle me this, Batman: What possible motive would NGC have?
If they are lying, they are going to get caught. If it's just an error, they are going to get caught. They are, therefore, either fools or incompetent. Either way, they are risking their entire reputation on one coin.
There is NO MOTIVE for them to lie.
You have not one iota of evidence that it is the Dupont coin.
Your speculation is mere fiction based on air.
I’m not speculating anything. I just don’t trust any TPG opinion without doing my own evaluation- be it an opinion of grade, of method of manufacture or of authenticity. I’ve seen too much crap in this industry to blindly follow anyone - show me your method of proving authenticity so I can concur or be viewed with a skeptical eye.
Most are NOT accusing them of lying (and who knows, they might be) and NOT conspiracy. They simply have not presented the case as TDN says. I, for one, would not pretend to know NGC's motives - if any - and am concentrating on the coin itself. There have in fact been pictures and comparisons on the other post that do certainly seem to pose serious questions about whether this coin is or is not the DuPont coin.
So, this and not conspiracy or accusation is the focus. If that be ludicrous, then perhaps logic ought to be thrown out?
Well, just Love coins, period.
Stacks has been kind enough to make many of their catalogs accessable through internet archive and the Newman Numismatic Portal.
Here is the 1962 Stacks Wolfson catalog:
https://archive.org/stream/samuelwwolfsonco1962stac#page/60/mode/2up
Here is the coin:
Given that there are over 200 missing examples of this coin, assuming that it has to be the Dupont coin unless proven otherwise is not logical. NGC did its due diligence. I see no reason to doubt them. They have far more to lose and little to gain from failing to get it right.
The coin in the Stack's catalog is much higher grade than the new one. But, of course, they could have worn it down, and dirtied it up. And so your "proof" that the coin is the same ends up being that it looks nothing like the Dupont coin but that a coin doctor could make the Dupont coin look nothing like the Dupont coin which is the craziest bit of "logic" ever.
Excellent point about the other 200+ missing pieces, but I fear that logic does not apply any more. As with the Saddle Ridge Hoard, some people cannot be happy over some stranger's good fortune, but must lash out in anger because they themselves did not find the treasure.
Lame
henway, asking for intellectual riggor and method isn’t the same as poo pooing in someone’s fortune. Some people simply don’t default to faith when it comes to magic or luck. Wanting to believe shouldn’t be the trigger for suspending process. Say what you want but a classic rarity was famously stolen and one shows up, processed years later shrouded in secrecy being rushed to market. I simply think less of the type people who don’t question that and apply extra questions. To me it is guilty until proven otherwise even if legally there simply isn’t enough evidence. My fear would be like 1854s 5$, sometimes evidence pops up down the road unexpectedly. It would suck to have a multimillion dollar piece of stolen goods. How much would that NGC opinion be worth then? Would it even be admitted into court? Why wouldn’t they publish their opinion? To limit liability would be my guess. How sure can you be if you hedge your bet? Boisterous Is not the same as sure (trust me on that last part). Also in the world of legal experts, rank and status matter! (All coin nerds matter)
200 others missing is a straw argument
Someone is going to make a fortune on the coin that part isn’t up to debate. Yayyy seller, ugh bandwagon coin guys claiming to be a student to the hobby but acting like fan boys.
You see no reason to doubt them, I Literally see no evidence to trust them. All they did was say looks good to us. I actually trust their opinions and I am just curious about the rigor they put behind it. Did they use100 points of comparison with pictures and people who knew the original coin or did they just point to one blurry inconsistency and say “wait you’ll put this in an NGC holder?”. They should go on the record IMO
Find of a lifetime deserves data and history not just murky marketing
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
1-You’re not destroying value when you can’t sell it. If you have to alter it to sell it you alter it
2- no it wouldn’t
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I never said I had any proof and have no obligation to support my suspicions that it is. I have questions and a fishy story. NGC’s president said him and his staff were convinced that it wasn’t. Why not ask them for their proof?
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Nap - Thank you!