On a scale of 1-10, how hardcore is the Rudman Charles & Johanna 8 Reale?
Weiss
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Charles and Johanna "Early Series" Rincón 8 Reales ND (c. 1538) •M•-•M• AU50 NGC, Mexico City mint, 36.5mm, 27.13g, KM-Unl., Calico-68, Nesmith-Unl. hISP[]ИIE : [ornament?] : [ornament?] : ET : IИDIARRVM : RE [truncated S?]:, a pair of crown-topped pillars (representing the Pillars of Hercules), rhomboidal banner in between with the word PLVS, one pellet above, one in either corner; R below (for Francisco del Rincón), cross above (value marker), all with inner beaded border / AKROLVVS (V double struck) : [ornament?] : ET : IOhAИA : D, crowned shield with turrets in first and fourth quadrants (representing Castile), and lions in the second and third (representing Leon), pomegranate at bottom (representing Granada); •M• (mintmark, stacked) on either side, all within inner beaded border. Perfectly centered and well-struck for the type, with a few slight imperfections in the rim just right of 12 o'clock and 7 o'clock keeping the flan just out of round. Wonderful slate gray surfaces that continue to emit rays of gorgeous mint luster.
Once considered to be a purely conjectural piece, this earliest of crown-sized coins struck in the New World--just two years after the establishment of the mint (later Mexico City) by royal charter in 1536--represents a minuscule group of just 3 known pieces recovered from the shipwreck of the "Golden Fleece" (sunk c. 1550) in 1990, and sold in 2004 (Goldbergs), 2006 (Heritage), and 2014 (Sedwick) respectively. First suggested by the testimony of Francisco Tello de Sandoval after an investigation of the mint in 1545 (though legislation for the minting of such pieces had been issued on November 18, 1537), the present offering displays all of the tell-tale signs concordant with this and other 16th-century accounts while hardly evincing a trace of saltwater damage.
--Severian the Lame
Comments
The fact that no such coins were ever known in the past (over hundreds and hundreds of years) makes this piece very dubious.
However, there is a whole lot of dumb money floating around nowadays.
one of a kind with alot of backdrop to the discovery. We shall see. Looks like a great piece for someone to pick up.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
The fact that there were some found in a shipwreck convinces me they are not MODERN fantasy pieces.
Were they struck as official pieces then or as a “pattern” or presentation piece for Royalty?
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
That's the cover story, ain't it?
I can read too, I just don't always believe.
This: Once considered to be a purely conjectural piece.
How do we really know that they were found in a shipwreck? Just because someone said so or is there proof they were:
Actually found
Not planted.
If I were going to purchase such a piece I would need a great deal more than a claim in an auction description.
I don't claim to know anything about these coins. The thing is, actual 16th Century issues/patterns/coins or not does not matter anymore. They have been accepted into the numismatic mainstream in auctions and certified as genuine by a TPGS. It would be interesting to do some metallurgical tests (which was probably done) to compare the alloy with coins from the same time period and mint. One thing obvious to me is the design punches don't match but I'm ignorant on when this practice came into use. At this time, dies may have all been hand engraved. It would be nice to compare all the auctioned pieces together in one place.
Depends on what "hardcore" means in this context. Should we ask Stormy Daniels or one of her close contacts?
I had similar questions concerning definition of "hardcore" thus i will fall in line with others... it seems Dubious may be more apropos
@RogerB.... You are on a roll lately
Cheers, RickO
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the use of "hardcore", too but if we define it as "significant" I would put this near the top of the scale- a 9 or 10.
It looks a lot like an old counterfeit coin that I have had for 40 years or more.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I disagree. The only thing similar is the color.
This coin IS THE COIN, the Holy Grail of Mexican numismatics