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Spotting on my SAE 2017 Burnished Silver Eagle PCGS-SP70's (their ugly!)
Gluggo
Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
Wow I finally found 2 in a row and they look horrible. I must own hundreds of the graded 70's 2016 and 2017 Silver Eagle Dollars. What bothers me these were still kept in their ORIGINAL BAGS from the few well known coin companies. Unsealed and never touched except to transfer them into the Blue PCGS holders and then stuffed away in a Dark Safe. Those being MCM, L&C APMEX and others. Makes me wonder how many more are there. I will be posting pictures tonight. I was told by past members here its a real problem and some will go through them and either melt them or sell them.
My question is
- I can sell these on Ebay but since I know they have spotting's on them do I have to claim them in my description? ( Sort of a stupid question ) But I really don't want these even though they are 2017 PCGS-SP-70's.
- Am I screwed as I cannot send them back as its been way over 1 years.
- More questions coming after I post the pic's.
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It's a well known issue so you pretty much buy them at your own risk/peril.
If you don't like them, then an eBay buyer likely won't like them either except maybe at spot [NPI] price. If you don't mention it, be prepared to expect to get most of them returned.
Thank you Bajjerfan!
I guess my main question is now do I dare go through every one and maybe sell them ALL ( the good ones) before they go bad? At least make some of my money back.
What to do with the bad ones? Since I would have to crack them then their just raw coin's and I would have to clean them. But I guess even cleaning them would ruin them.
Does PCGS clean the spotting for you? I will have to call them. I am sure they charge for each coin if they do.
Just think of all the graded coin's getting spots there must be a market for buying them back and cleaning them since there must be tens of thousand of them having this problem. I am just now finding out about them when I was cataloging my coin's in my new computer based program's.
I guess its my fault for putting my money into these SAE coin's. I wonder how my SAE's 20 to a container are doing they been sitting there for 6+ year's that I bought from APMEX? Ohhh Boy not good.
A few years ago I sold some 2006 20th Annie RP's (NGC 69) that had significant spots and were described appropriately in the auction. There was a minimal decrease in the expected final auction price...yes, they were 69's though
I should add i wouldn't waste my time NOT mentioning the spots....95% chance of getting them back....maybe 100% with 70's
I really need to find my glasses
Spotting on my SAE 2017 Burnished Silver Eagle
I thought at first this said "Spiitting" on my SAE 2017 Burnished Silver Eagle
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never pay more than 2$ over spot for a silver eagle.
You are making me wonder about the 2011 5 coin sets I have tucked away I better take a look at them
I know little about the market for these so take my opinion on this with a grain of salt, but if I had spotted slabbed SEs I would sell them as is, with a full description, of course. Maybe some buyer would figure they can crack, dip and re-slab for a profit. Let them take the risk.
But, the bottom line is that I would sell problem SEs sooner than later, somehow, someway. They are not desirable now and will never get better as time passes.
First of all... once milk spotted, they cannot be cleaned. Second, the only (possibly) preventive measure for this issue, that I have heard of, is to acetone bathe them immediately when you receive them. It seems to work, since I have no spotting on those that I have treated this way. Cheers, RickO
Your coins are not in original packaging. Once removed from the original US Mint package, all bets are off. You seem to have been scammed by the "got to grade it" syndrome. Now you have a bunch of tarnished silver worth bullion.... Sorry.
Maybe we should call it the "spotted" price.
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Ok Okay RogerB shoot away! This was bought from MCM one of the Big Boys and it was the SPECIAL 225TH ANNIVERSARY LABEL!!!!!
Letem go Roger Both Barrels I know buy the coin not the label! Shoot away! Barely lasted 1 year was still in their original special MCM plastic bag. I dont even look at them when I get them I just transfer into the Blue PCGS holder's.
Maybe that guy who does the AT in the slab can work his magic to add some "desirability" to them.
@Gluggo I also have tubes of ASEs and I keep them in SDBs. I don't worry about those spotting since they're bullion and they'll go for the same price after a quick dip.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
The facts have been presented. No point in rubbing in the disappointment....which, incidentally, extends beyond your collection. To some extent everyone is harmed by coins that are intended to be kept for long-term enjoyment, but are damaged. The OP certainly did not expect this outcome - no collector should.
I don't think you will have any luck removing milk spots from Silver Eagles.
A few years ago PCGS was offering a $50,000 reward to anyone who could find a way to remove / prevent the spots. No-one ever collected on this offer as far as I know.
I had sets of Silver Eagles years ago. Raw sets and a complete slabbed set. When I noticed them starting to spot I sold all of them. Luckly the slabbed ones hadn't started spotting yet (well a few of the cheaper ones had) and I got my money back out of them. Back then a few dates were $600+ coins as I recall,,, 3 or 4 different dates.
I am curious to see how the 2018 and beyond Silver Maple Leafs hold up to The Canadian Mint's claim of their new "MintShield" Technology which they claim will greatly reduce if not prevent Milk Spotting.They are using this process on all 2018 and future date Silver Maple Leafs. Maple Leafs are the worst coin IMHO as far as developing Milk Spots. I have purchased several 2018 Silver Maple Leafs both raw and slabbed and I am waiting to see how they fair as to future spotting.
I sold some milk spotted 70s (NGC) and got approx. 65%-70% of the then current 70s pricing, some people just want the registry points and don't care about the coin. so you might be surprised when it comes time to sell, just be up front and take good pictures of the coin,
And are you sure its milk spotting? where's the pics.?
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When I first started collecting coins again (used to be obsessed with coins as a teenager) I found the PCGS boards and Eric’s thread on collecting Modern coins. Eric and many on the boards thought the burnished ASEs would be the modern equivalent of Morgan dollars and solid collectibles/investments. I bought dozens of any burnished, reverse proof and enhanced ASEs -primarily PCGS slabbed 70s at issue price. I would say that well over half of these coins have developed milk spots or unattractive toning in the slabs months to years later (all stored in Intercept Shield boxes) As they turn I sell them on eBay, I’m sure I’ve lost a lot on them. Every time I check I find a few more have turned. Will be interesting to see if any remain stable. Even my PCGS Baseball silver dollars have toned in the slabs. No more modern silver for me!
On the plus side I got in on and bought/sold multiples 08w Buffalo Gold fractionals, 08W APE fractionals, and 08W $10 AGEs at / right after issue so that helps offset the financial pain of the spotting ASEs.
Funny thing I have never had any Modern Silver Commemoratives develop Milk Spots. I always ass/u/med it was because the commemoratives are 90% silver and not .999 fine silver like the bullion coins.
Wrights silver cream works wonders on milk spots. Everyone says you can detect the cleaning but there have been tens of thousands that have made it to holders. Some of the worst milk spot Canadian Maples, Austrian Philharmonics, Pandas, Eagles I have ever seen now reside in 69 and 70 holders. It is what it is.
You would think they could tell before they spotted but I don't remember seeing anything different about eagles that later spotted. As for the slabbed ones the graders don't look at moderns they just press a button and a 69 or 70 is randomly applied.
I just got home from workie here is the pic Names have been changed to protect the innocent. Its right about 2 oclock there are two pronounced circles.
Here is a better picture the one is with the original wrapper the the other 2 I unwrapped to take a picture. They both have milk spots. Both on the right edge 3oclock. I took the glare out of the 1st picture. You can see it now.
Doesn't look too bad from that photo? Only thing I see is maybe a streak at the bottom of the "T" in Liberty?
OK, now I see them.
Silver polish will remove the milk spots but you have to rub and we all know that ain't good. It would never slab.
Well I'll call it silver burnish instead of silver polish. Then the label will say burnished
For the record I prefer milk spots over silver toning any day. lulz
Much more likely to dip silver vs giving the wrights rub.
I have mixed feelings about this but I will wait for the other 7 guys from arizona to disagree
To be clear the PCGS slabbed Baseball dollars didn’t get milk spots but some did develop scattered streaks and blobs of brown toning near the rims - both Ms and Pr coins. None of the NGC Baseball dollars have toned so far. Also very few of my NGC ASEs have developed milk spots
Did you put glovolium on them and put them under your mattress ?
I have the solution...................maybe
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Looketh like unto the hot place.
How did you get that set for $100?
That might mess up the label in the slab. But hey worth a try I quess.
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Spotting was the reason I quit buying graded Silver Eagles long ago. I do have a few as pocket pieces, with no spots.
When I sold mine I mentioned the spots. Don't want a ticked off buyer.
I hung on the line and ordered those like everyone else. But I was young and foolish then , I'm no longer young
Do milk spots get darker and become corrosion? Inquiring minds want to know. Peace Roy
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You can sell anything however you want on eBay, but if you pretend a problem doesn't exist and a buyer (rightfully) isn't happy when they discover it, expect to eat a return and face bad feedback, as well. Think about the options:
A- Pretend the problem doesn't exist at all. You know the buyer won't be happy. Even if you could get away with this, would you be happy with yourself pulling a fast one on someone unsuspecting?
B- Take a picture that shows the spots. Now the buyer can see the coin and decide for himself.
C- Do what I do. If I sell something spotted, I show it in the picture and also write it in the description. Most buyers don't read the descriptions anymore, and they're likely to see the spotting in the photo, so writing down the problem doesn't really change how the buyer perceives the item. But, if the buyer isn't paying attention to the picture, writing down the problem takes away most claims that they didn't know about the problem. In general, I figure mentioning a problem is mostly a get out of jail free tactic. It won't hurt the sale price (the pictures will take care of that), but it will protect me against any claim that the picture wasn't good enough to see the problem, etc.
What's the ingredient list for Wright's silver cream?
If you send them to PCGS there is no assurance that they can "clean" them and it may not be worth the cost. You could put one of each [spotted and non-spotted] on eBay and see what they go for.
I don't believe so.
I am curious why you have collected hundreds of graded 70s SAEs of the same year?
On eBay, half the buyers do not read the description and half the buyers do not look at the pictures - so chances are good you would be fine. You could also have someone else sell them for you - on consignment or different auction house.
IMO silver eagles should ONLY be bought in "monster boxes" and sold unopened with date band intact.
It's bad enough to speculate that silver will ever be a store of wealth again, but I wouldn't squander my wealth on adding more cost to bullion.
No way to remove milk spots and preserve the 70 grades - thus PCGS and NGC no longer covers this problem in their guarantees. Milk spots are a different problem than toning (linked in the video above ). Trying to collect or invest in 70 graded ASEs whether burnished, proof or bullion is a huge gamble that you’re likely to lose. I had a half dozen on the 07 reverse 08W ASEs purchased in 2008 and I’m down to one without a spot. I had a spot pop up on coin number two last year. My advice take any profits you can on the 17W while they’re hot . Hang on to them and hope they don’t spot or retain their number two lowest burnished status (2011-S from 25th anniversary Set is the lowest at 100K and it’s price has been slowly eroding) is almost certainly a losing proposition
First thank you for the great comments. What about the Proofs 2016 and 2017 graded 70 coins? Will the Proofs also get milk spots? I am afraid to look.
Yep you better check.
Burnished, proofs, bullion, enhanced, reverse proofs especially in PCGS holders (for me) have all been plagued by spots.
1) "_ Now you have a bunch of tarnished silver worth bullion.... Sorry_." Incorrect. Read the posts re: selling spotted ASe's
2) > @Gluggo said:
Yup...the grade nor year has nothing to do with the future and I have seen bullion, burnished, proofs and RP's with spots
If you are asking that question to sum it all up I was just buying buying buying like a mad man!
Bought this one in 2016, sold it as spotted in 2017........no mas.
Wright's silver cream contains [among other things] sodium carbonate and quartz. Hard to believe that it can be used and leave no evidence of its use.
It's been said that you can see the spots before they become visible by use of a halogen flashlight. At that point they can still be removed with EZest.