Cleaning coins.
keets
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We bought some stuff yesterday from two women who were definitely not collectors. I wasn't involved in the deal but it was a lot of Gold Jewelry, some foreign Gold like 20 Francs, etc. and an assortment of U.S. coins. Included in the group was an Isabella Quarter that grades XF/AU with some clear rub, no hairlines/evidence of cleaning and being that charcoal grey that silver turns to after a long time, not terminal black but sort of attractive for circulated silver.
These women most likely inherited the stuff, perhaps one had a spouse who collected and has passed on. As such, it would probably never occur to them to clean/dip the coin but it must also have never occurred to anyone to store it properly or it wouldn't have had the rub(not from circulation). So my question to everyone is this: What is it that makes a beginning collector think that everything needs to be bright and shiny?? Do we need to work harder in the Hobby to get beginning collectors to learn and be patient before they decide they need to "Help" their coins??
I suppose one ruined coin per collector is all it takes to change a bad habit, it would be nice to figure out how to avoid that. Thanks in advance.
Al H.
Comments
I've wondered why "cleaned" coins are so common. I think I read that collectors often cleaned all their coins decades ago. Guess that was the norm at the time.
Most folks like things that look new, including coins. That's why we wash our cars. The general public knows little about coins. As a dealer, I'll bet it is rare for someone to walk into the shop with pristine coins. Want to have some fun at your coin club? Bring in a darkly toned Morgan, a frosty BU, and on that is polished "PROFESSIONALLY." Even the knowledgeable collectors will pick the polished coin that looks bright and new.
For National Coin Week, it would be great to have a print and TV blitz: "DON'T touch your coins!" as is done during an election year. It would take tens of millions of dollars so that's not going to happen.
Non-collectors like the look of bright, shiny coins....even as kids, we would often take erasers to older cents to make them 'look' new.... and non-collecting adults think the coins they are disposing will bring better prices if they look like new.... after all, they polish the silverware right? The best we can do, is to educate new collectors...the rest do not care. Cheers, RickO
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Personally, I do not like dark tarnished coins. It appears, that may have been the case in the past also. (For the most part, I'm guilty of having dipped some of my badly tarnished coins, but never cleaned them.)
Actually, when you removed the tarnish, you did clean them.
Any photos?
That statement is subject to interpretation. The top 4 grading services would disagree with you. No photo's ... they were all sold years ago, after I stopped collecting so called "classic coins."
As I posted: "When you removed the tarnish, you did clean them."
@OPA said: "That statement is subject to interpretation. The top 4 grading services would disagree with you."
NONSENSE. Tarnish is removed from coins (cleaned) on a daily basis at some TPGS's. You see, it is called "conservation." This is a term WE (I clean coins) use to describe a coin we have properly cleaned.
PS I'm guilty of dipping (CLEANING) thousands of coins.
What is polished professionally? Do you have any examples to show?
Collector, occasional seller
Years ago, in response to an ad to buy coins, I get a call from an "old" lady (at least she sounded that on the phone) who wanted to see what her Morgan dollars were worth. I asked no questions. Made an appointment to go to her home the next morning.
When I arrived she really was old and her voice was one of those crackle cackle type that is hard to understand. So, that kind of limited the small chat as to where they came from etc.
She led me to the dining room table where she proudly had them all laid out, except a pile of 50 or so. It was obvious, just looking, that she had been cleaning them with silver polish paste. Oh my. Yep, she had about 20 rolls of Morgans that were all nicely polished! She said that she was up all night cleaning them for me!!
Oh boy I learned another lesson. Just because I had trouble hearing what she was saying on the phone call I went for the appointment without my usual "don't do anything to the coins, as collectors like them with dirt and all, just leave them as is" statement.
The few she had not cleaned were all O mintmark common and all MS/UNC dollars. I bought them all and actually made a few bucks on the uncleaned ones and sold the rest as culls.
Lessons are learned every day as to what to say and when to say it. Just because someone has coins does not mean they have any clue as to how to treat them.
bob
I think this forum does a tremendous job in educating newbies along those very lines. I can't remember a newbie's post that they weren't told 1) do not clean the coin 2) buy the book for the type you are collecting 3) learn to grade raw coins and 4) buy ONLY certified key coins and semi-key coins. They will still take a chance and mess up, but that's the cost of education--no one says it's cheap. The hard part is the ones that never come to this forum, how do we reach them. Maybe if as a group of collector/sellers we could form or join an already formed group with the understanding that the main purpose would be to educate via word of mouth, books, magazine, and set up at various coin shows throughout the year with educational supplies. Of course, this would not be cheap, but still could be done via dues or donations. Just a thought.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Unfortunately, some types of "professional alterations" will not show up in a micrograph! This is extremely frustrating for me as things I can easily see using fluorescent light and a stereoscope set at 7X do not reproduce in a micrograph no matter who I position the light or coin. For example, most of you know what whizzing is and the characteristic upturned edge on the relief that indicates whizzing rather than buffing. This is easy to image. However, in the 1980's a "new" process was detected on Indian and Lincoln cents that we named "micro whizzing." It is impossible to capture and all I could do was describe the "unnatural surface and color" when I warned readers about these coins being slabeed as "red Uncs!"
The only answer I have is that any type of alteration, including artificial toning," that is undetected FOR A SHORT TIME by one of the major TPGS's is a "professional" job.
Tone makes me want to puke and the graders can't detect a dip anyway. I clean them all, never an issue.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Perhaps not for you. Unfortunately, It's the next owner who may discover an issue.
My older aunt also cleaned her coins with polish
Toothpaste is great for cleaning coins!
Bad cleaning always removes metal as reports I have done show, even conservation cleaning at the services can employ
thiourea with additives which can pull metal from the surface. We all want impressive coins; unfortunately for the vast multitudes, especially our youth shiny is impressive while toning isn't. Acetone and chemicals like "Conserv" don't remove metal from the surface; I am very conservative on coins worth much; but I also don't want to have coins come back as "environmental damage" when they can be conserved like here:
Before: https://i.imgur.com/CvvbPfn.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZJ0XALk.jpg after: https://i.imgur.com/OQD040L.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GGVentm.jpg Also this one came out quite nice as an XF45 after conservation, originally from the "elusive spondulix", not sure if I have the end result: https://i.imgur.com/GafQ6.jpg
Money.....
It makes them minty fresh.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Grandpa Joe casually collected coins many years ago. He put aside silver dollars, quarters, dimes and halves when he found them in pocket change.
Grandpa Joe lived a good life, but he’s gone now. He left you his casual coin collection, and you’ve decided to learn the value of the collection and determine if now is a good time to sell.
Well, you know when you want to sell something in a garage sale, on Craig’s List or if you want to sell a car or a house, it’s always best to clean and shine what you plan to sell. A clean, shiny object is easier to sell and brings more money. That’s got to be true for coins too, right?
WRONG!
Yes, old silver coins look dull, dingy and dirty, but making them clean and shiny will reduce their value significantly!
You’ve seen the pitchmen on those TV ads where they dip a coin in the cleaning solution and it comes out bright and shiny. That’s great for a TV ad but not great for increasing or even maintaining the value of the coins.
Most coin dealers have stories about people who brought them cleaned coins. First, cleaned coins hurt their coin collecting hearts. Second, coin dealers hate to break the news that the collection’s value was significantly reduced by the cleaning. Their horror stories include coins worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars being reduced to the melt value of their metal.
Again, you can compare coins to antiques. If you ever watch the Antiques Roadshow, perhaps you have seen the experts tell people that their antique dresser, chest, desk or whatever lost significant value because someone had refinished it and replaced the hardware. You could see the heartbreak in the owners’ faces when they learned a piece worth many thousands as an antique was reduced to the value of an ordinary piece of furniture.
If you have old coins, don’t let the same heartbreak happen to you. Don’t clean your coins!
...its a learned thing. They don't teach this stuf in school. The studious reign.