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EDIT: Counterfeit Tokens on Ebay
Insider2
Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
There are many counterfeit common tokens on Ebay.
EDIT: A very experienced exonumia collector suggested I change my misleading OP to this:
"This is an image of a Prooflike medal with an obverse which is a close copy of an HK-19 So-Called Dollar. An experienced dealer who was uneducated about SC$'s mistook it for a genuine HK-19 and purchased it. The reverse is entirely different and the medal is actually an item issued by The Nevada American Revolution BiCentennial Commission in 1976. Collectors and dealers alike should always take care to know what an item is before they purchase it and avoid items that they really know nothing about."
Buyer Beware...Nothing is safe anymore.
Please check back as the "hole" get's a little deeper... 
2
Comments
The "1976" date should have also been a red flag
Actually, that is not an HK-19. It is a 1976 Bicentennial piece with a Nevada theme, with one side similar to HK-19.
It is not a "counterfeit". It is actually one of these:
But, I do agree, there are quite a few modern counterfeits of semi-common tokens on eBay and elsewhere.
Was it sold as an HK-19?
How "experienced" was this dealer?
Edit: But to your point, yes, be careful when buying medals and tokens. HK-19 is an expensive medal and buying a counterfeit would sting.
Yep!
Modern imitation - not a counterfeit, as noted by Mr. Carr.
So misrepresented instead of counterfeited.
Wow !!!
Here's a real HK-19:
Or the seller was also an "experienced" dealer who did not know what they had and simply called it an HK-19 because it looked similar. This is how PCGS attributes medals sent to them.
Thanks, I guess the buyer should have looked at the date.
There are several points that should alert a buyer that the item in question was not authentic. Cheers, RickO
I missed this the first time. While I scan ebay quite often, I can't say I've seen counterfeits of any type of Pony Express or Lindbergh medal or token. Can you post links? I would be interested in seeing them.
Thanks!
It will take a while. Just pull up the images and look at the details. I've bought a couple as they are cheap. Now PM me and I'll be reminded when this discussion is off the front page.
Insider, if you are representing your expertise on these SC$'s based on this medal and the interpretation of a bell crack you might want to stick to coins. the reverse isn't even close to an HK-19 as pointed out by DCarr and is actually what it is, a tribute medal from the BiCentennial. since I didn't see the auction or know anything about the seller and buyer, it is quite likely that they both are ignorant in this area of Numismatics and took a chance on what the THOUGHT something was.
I have e-mailed a number of eBay sellers about Exonumia that they think is genuine items when in reality they are re-issues similar in appearance. a coomon one is a medal from the WWII Commemorative Set which gets listed as HK-910. there are also modern reproductions of HK-299 which were around and fooling collectors for awhile. still another is the Set of 8-SCH$'s that sellers call "Silver" which are actually Nickel or Copper-Nickel, but not Silver.
to my mind it isn't always the sellers trying to fool buyers, it is that the sellers have bought something that they don't know how to accurately authenticate/attribute, then they try to sell it. I see this kind of thing often with these medals, collectors/dealers wanting to make a quick buck without knowing what they are doing. it happens all too frequently with coins, also. everyone needs to have a slower learning curve and we'd all be better off.
LOL, are you stalking me?
Now, Mr. Expert, please watch this thread as I just bought two of these metals in bronze and I'll look forward to your comments about the differences.
don't flatter yourself, I collect SC$'s so a thread about them would naturally be one I would read.
in case you missed my point, it is that you overlook the very obvious to notice the subtle, you note a difference in a design detail on the obverse at the expense of the entire reverse, which is different and dated 100 years later. you might want to acknowledge that point. it is similar to another thread where you tried to show your "expertise" about a coin when the OP had a big, fat, white arrow pointing out the area he was asking about. you seemed to notice something else and missed the whole point, then you tried to justify your mistake with some lame explanation.
you have made your brief stay here noteworthy for calling people out and pawning yourself off as an expert about certain things. perhaps you are sharp in some areas, but you might want to focus on that and not try to be the expert on all things, which you clearly aren't.
stick to what you know and it doesn't appear that SC$'s is it.
also, a subtle little detail, but these aren't "meTals" they are meDals. details, details........................
To shamelessly piggyback on the above post... @Insider2 also please stay away from most foreign coins. You seem to believe your deep knowledge of one thing extrapolates to another when it clearly does not. Being "wrong but strong" leads to misinformation in an already esoteric hobby. You just make so much noise that a lot of people don't want to bother arguing with you, and that is not cool man.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
Your opinion is welcome. Please link to my comments on foreign coins that you did not like.
BTW, you ass ume a lot. I don't have a deep knowledge of ANYTHING except some of the private parts of my body!
and I should enjoy meeting you.
I leave my opinions everywhere and as you believe, on several occasions, I have made an error: "METALS vs MEDALS." As a "watch dog" you would know that I shamefully admit to my errors and thank the member for **educating me. As I shall do now - Thank You
@keets
You are correct. This was sent in as an HK#19. My post should have explained that it is not. Mr. Carr did that for the discussion. I started this post to alert folks that this Bicentennial Issue and other exonumia are being counterfeited.
PS I'll never be an "Expert" on exonumia or anything else as I'm too old. I just want to know a counterfeit or altered piece when I see one.
there are too many collectors/dealers who jumped on the SC$ bandwagon when the 2nd Edition was published trying to make a buck. the term "Unlisted SC$" gets used a lot. dealers/collectors who think they have something call it what they choose without doing the least bit of checking/researching. I suspect that with the medal in the OP that a dealer or collector bought it for pretty much nothing and thought they had an HK-19 because they never really checked. they then listed it and the next buyer trusted their attribution, bought it, submitted it and received the sad news.
someone has a nice quote in their sig-line, I believe it might be kranky --- Buy the book before the coin or something like that and it is good advice.
I must admit, I thought insider2 was being sarcastic/and possibly sardonic from the very start of this thread. I feel that I understood his intent.
He may not have said quite enough at the start to satisfy those members who 'overkill' every subject they touch upon.
If that is the case then @Insider2 needs to understand that sarcasm doesn't quite work in writing when dealing with people you don't personally know.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
I just spoke with @Insider2. I think he may assume too much. In which case, by following a suggestion from a retired numismatic publisher to "Keep it simple;" his omissions may make it easy for some readers to misconstrue his attitude and what he writes.
I have been around here long enough to believe that nothing about this thread was meant to be sarcastic. in short, what was said by the principals is what was intended. the latest replies strike me as "spin" more than anything else.
Mindreading again? LOL. Some folks would not recognize "spin" even when they are the ones doing it. That should be a simple enough rejoinder to be easily comprehended.
yeah, like you were being sarcastic with the OP!! you actually made a fool of yourself in trying to play Mr. Expert and now you'd like us to believe it was all a joke. the jig's up on you bud, you're a phony in my book.
I don't think anyone can honestly say that they've never made the silly mistake of focusing on one thing and overlooking something obvious. I don't take issue with mistakes, I take issue with how people handle themselves after. It is entirely acceptable to say "my bad, that was an oversight" and move on. Trying to save face by ridiculing people who point it out is what detracts from the person, not the initial error. And while there is no shortage of sarcasm in this thread, it's easy to see why the OP does not come across as being sarcastic in the slightest.
Edit: I originally wrote that one would have to be naive to think the OP was sarcastic, but that language is unnecessary and I wanted to retract it.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
I thought you were a mind reader who know the intentions and thinking of others posting here. Joke? Are you kidding? I AM THE OP. Please point out EXACTLY what you believe is the joke?
I'll try again. This coin (Oops! "token") was sent in (Oops! submitted to a TPGS) as an HK#19. The fact that it is not was pointed out by several members A DAY BEFORE you came to the discussion (for what reason I have no clue?) and verified what everyone else had already posted.
As far as I'm concerned there is only one Joke in this thread and I for one don't care. My ONLY intention here was to warn folks that for a long time that counterfeiters have moved into exonumia. The fact that I pointed out an easily seen difference between HK-19 (as was believed by the submitter) and a naked-eye difference does not make me the "fool" trying to be an expert.
PS I just looked at/read my OP again. My opening sentence: "This is an image of a decent Prooflike C/F So-Called dollar, HK#19.
Now, at least, I understand your wrath!
Please stay tuned as you and I are not quite finished. 
This is an image of a decent Prooflike C/F So-Called dollar, HK#19. Without knowing what the genuine should look like, an experienced dealer purchased it. I have magnified the "Bell" on the reverse. Note the crude shape of the crack. You can find an image of a genuine piece in the HK reference or on the internet. Additionally, there are many counterfeit common tokens such as the Pony Express and Lindberg issues on Ebay
--- it is not a countefiet HK-19.
--- there is no "Bell" on the reverse of an HK-19 or on the reverse of the medal you posted.
--- the medal you posted has been identified by DCarr as a tribute medal struck in 1976 by The Nevada American Revolution BiCentennial Commission.
If you are really intent on educating us here and being helpful you might want to go edit your original post and thread title. I don't know what you might want the title to be because as stated it is 100% incorrect and misleading. as for the body of the OP I might suggest something like this --- This is an image of a Prooflike medal with an obverse which is a close copy of an HK-19 So-Called Dollar. An experienced dealer who was uneducated about SC$'s mistook it for a genuine HK-19 and purchased it. The reverse is entirely different and the medal is actually an item issued by The Nevada American Revolution BiCentennial Commission in 1976. Collectors and dealers alike should always take care to know what an item is before they purchase it and avoid items that they really know nothing about.
whatever you do doesn't really matter to me, but calling a genuine item a "counterfeit" of another item and foisting yourself off as knowledgeable and helpful is anything but. if you are really as intent as you claim to be with helping collectors here you should either delete the thread entirely or correct the errors.
the item you have pictured in the OP is not a counterfeit, do you at least understand that??
Thanks for your suggestion!
Now there should be no ambiguity.
@keets said:
..."the item you have pictured in the OP is NOT A COUNTERFEIT, do you at least understand that??"