I am left wondering if those who believe PCGS "grade-flated" the coin have considered --- with strike issues involved with 1921 Peace Dollars and all the debris/surface contaminants removed from the coin that the luster is now clear, luster not visible before which led to the AU58 grade??
remember, PCGS has seen the coin in-hand and we are looking at less than stellar pictures.
"AU" means there is wear, however slight. One cannot "unwear" a coin by removing dirt. Of course, the initial 'grade' might have been in error -- or maybe it was the 2nd 'grade' that was in error --- or maybe they were in Cleveland and not Error...?
Hope you don't mind me adding this to your thread here. Took a little over two months to get mine back.
Before:
After:
I'm not super crazy about the new trueview image but in hand this coin is much improved! My main concern was the dark spots that had some green to them. Much better now.
@RogerB said:
The coin has not changed except for some superficial debris/tarnish removal. Therefore, the coin cannot be once "AU" now "MS-62." You paid for cleaning and the TPG gave you a bonus "grade inflation" up-grade. (Kind of like when Motel 6 moves you from the room with large rats next to the freeway to the deluxe room with mice next to the dumpsters.)
Enjoy your good fortune.
I can't decide which button to click; Agree, Like, LOL...
@RogerB said: "Deliberate misrepresentation and distortion does not express truth or reality. One can maintain truthful standards, or succumb to the lies."
@RogerB said: "AU" means there is wear, however slight. One cannot "unwear" a coin by removing dirt. Of course, the initial 'grade' might have been in error -- or maybe it was the 2nd 'grade' that was in error...?"
@RogerB said: "The coin has not changed except for some superficial debris/tarnish removal. Therefore, the coin cannot be once "AU" now "MS-62." You paid for cleaning and the TPG gave you a bonus "grade inflation" up-grade."
This thread has popped up again along with the usual accusations. I'll use Roger as my foil as he has stated several of the usual arguments.
Unfortunately, grading standards have changed. Accept it or don't. THE END.
Grading is subjective. THE END.
Sometimes an examiner does not see everything there is to see on a coin or ignores it. This often suggests to others that the coin may not be graded correctly.
Because of #1, #2, and #3 and in addition to the personal skill, experience, knowledge, magnification, etc of the examiner, some coins can be assigned different grades within a short period of time.
IMO, the majority of the problems with grading resulted when VALUE was added to the equation and when the PRECISION of technical grading was dropped. Therefore, it is not at all unusual for a coin that was once graded AU to be graded MS the next time it is seen. No favoritism is involved. THE END.
Ahhh....now I'm a "foil."
Wonder what kind -- aluminum, tin, fencing/épée, contrasting agent, thwart, frustrate, counter, balk, impede, obstruct, hamper, euchre, hinder, snooker, cripple, scotch, derail, scupper, scuttle, or.....Hmmmm this is not looking good - I'd best be quiet.
There is that lone grade in the middle that never gets used - 59. Why not use it for what used to be AU58. Call these coins without actual wear, but with cabinet friction NW-59 for No Wear-59?
@thefinn said:
There is that lone grade in the middle that never gets used - 59. Why not use it for what used to be AU58. Call these coins without actual wear, but with cabinet friction NW-59 for No Wear-59?
Cabnet friction is friction wear. They are microscopically identical. The ONLY "damaged" original surface luster that is not friction wear (leave out contact marks) is caused by compression (stacking, roll rub, etc). It is microscopically and virtually "naked eye" different when you know what you are looking at.
Unfortunately/fortunately, these distinctions I'm writing about are either ignored, unknown, or do not matter to most. The fun is knowing what you are looking at while playing the grading game by the rules of the comercial market.
Comments
Finally back in hand after a trip to California and New Jersey.
Nice
One of these just sold yesterday on the 'bay for $480
Collector, occasional seller
No word back on the Buff yet.. little over a month now so hopefully not much longer. Nervous about this one...
Collector, occasional seller
@ChrisH821 Should be any day now!
Which goes to show with both PCGS and cac thinking it was properly graded as an MS62, there was no real wear.
I am left wondering if those who believe PCGS "grade-flated" the coin have considered --- with strike issues involved with 1921 Peace Dollars and all the debris/surface contaminants removed from the coin that the luster is now clear, luster not visible before which led to the AU58 grade??
remember, PCGS has seen the coin in-hand and we are looking at less than stellar pictures.
"AU" means there is wear, however slight. One cannot "unwear" a coin by removing dirt. Of course, the initial 'grade' might have been in error -- or maybe it was the 2nd 'grade' that was in error --- or maybe they were in Cleveland and not Error...?
For a coin that is normally not too pretty, they did a wonderful job. That True-view sure makes it look stellar. With a great strike to boot !
great work. Nice looking coin
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Hope you don't mind me adding this to your thread here. Took a little over two months to get mine back.
Before:
After:
I'm not super crazy about the new trueview image but in hand this coin is much improved! My main concern was the dark spots that had some green to them. Much better now.
Collector, occasional seller
Very Nice High Relief Variety @Peace_dollar88 !
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I can't decide which button to click; Agree, Like, LOL...
Latin American Collection
@RogerB said: "Deliberate misrepresentation and distortion does not express truth or reality. One can maintain truthful standards, or succumb to the lies."
@RogerB said: "AU" means there is wear, however slight. One cannot "unwear" a coin by removing dirt. Of course, the initial 'grade' might have been in error -- or maybe it was the 2nd 'grade' that was in error...?"
@RogerB said: "The coin has not changed except for some superficial debris/tarnish removal. Therefore, the coin cannot be once "AU" now "MS-62." You paid for cleaning and the TPG gave you a bonus "grade inflation" up-grade."
This thread has popped up again along with the usual accusations. I'll use Roger as my foil as he has stated several of the usual arguments.
Unfortunately, grading standards have changed. Accept it or don't. THE END.
Grading is subjective. THE END.
Sometimes an examiner does not see everything there is to see on a coin or ignores it. This often suggests to others that the coin may not be graded correctly.
Because of #1, #2, and #3 and in addition to the personal skill, experience, knowledge, magnification, etc of the examiner, some coins can be assigned different grades within a short period of time.
IMO, the majority of the problems with grading resulted when VALUE was added to the equation and when the PRECISION of technical grading was dropped. Therefore, it is not at all unusual for a coin that was once graded AU to be graded MS the next time it is seen. No favoritism is involved. THE END.
Ahhh....now I'm a "foil."
Wonder what kind -- aluminum, tin, fencing/épée, contrasting agent, thwart, frustrate, counter, balk, impede, obstruct, hamper, euchre, hinder, snooker, cripple, scotch, derail, scupper, scuttle, or.....Hmmmm this is not looking good - I'd best be quiet.
Wait first it was sent in for removing green now you sent it out for new green?
Congrats on getting CAC to sticker it at MS62!
There is that lone grade in the middle that never gets used - 59. Why not use it for what used to be AU58. Call these coins without actual wear, but with cabinet friction NW-59 for No Wear-59?
THICK, PURE, .999 Fine GOLD FOIL of course!
Cabnet friction is friction wear. They are microscopically identical. The ONLY "damaged" original surface luster that is not friction wear (leave out contact marks) is caused by compression (stacking, roll rub, etc). It is microscopically and virtually "naked eye" different when you know what you are looking at.
Unfortunately/fortunately, these distinctions I'm writing about are either ignored, unknown, or do not matter to most. The fun is knowing what you are looking at while playing the grading game by the rules of the comercial market.