The slabbing game...is PCGS now the only one worth having?
291fifth
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I don't have much of a stake in slabbed coins anymore. My observation of the marketplace indicates that PCGS is now the clear winner in the slabbing game. If I were to go back into US coins I suspect I would want PCGS only. Coins in other holders would have to be discounted EVEN IF THE COINS WERE PROPERLY GRADED.
What are your current feelings?
What are your current feelings?
All glory is fleeting.
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Tom
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
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Could you list a couple of examples?
I have a soft spot for the NGC fatties.
<< <i>I don't have much of a stake in slabbed coins anymore. My observation of the marketplace indicates that PCGS is now the clear winner in the slabbing game. If I were to go back into US coins I suspect I would want PCGS only. Coins in other holders would have to be discounted EVEN IF THE COINS WERE PROPERLY GRADED.
What are your current feelings? >>
PCGS coins are the best!! Only buy PCGS coins!! All others are worth much less!! Smart people only buy PCGS coins!!!
<< <i>Coins in other holders would have to be discounted EVEN IF THE COINS WERE PROPERLY GRADED. >>
If you are speaking of selling non-PCGS coins, even if the above statement were always true (which it isn't), it wouldn't matter, if you could also BUY such coins at a discount.
Any coin being nice and non altered in any holder would be worth having if you like it. But, when it comes down to pricing PCGS command the highest prices and sometime multiples.
There are very nice coins indeed in different holders even Premium Quality coins but I assure you the owner would preferr to have it in a PCGS Holder because theyjust bring more money.
Drinking the koolaid!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>Having just returned from Baltimore, I would have to say that NGC is at least as popular as PCGS. >>
Yup, I've also been noticing the trend. There are far more NGC slabs out there now than PCGS. In fact there are a number of NGC only dealers that I saw -- NO PCGS in their cases
One can rationalize this and say that they make money because NGC might be a little looser and their coin submissions might come back more nicely graded (as some would opine), but conversely the same can be said of PCGS and PCGS's being inconsistent.
Both companies grade to different grading standards and one is not better or worst -- just different.
I cannot believe that I'm going to say this but I've actually been finding more nicer coins in NGC and PCI plastic lately. More than PCGS, that's for sure. The sequentially numbered coins in PCGS holders make me close the box and move on to the next dealer.
It seems as though there is little high quality PCGS material on the market, and the existing high quality PQ material is selling for MOON money. In contrast the existing high quality PCGS material is no better than high quality NGC material so there might be some good opportunities out there
Buy the coin, and if needed, break and throw out the holder.
<< <i>Just FYI....most of the coins in PCI holders that I have sent in for Re-Grade to PCGS have crossed over. There is a wise bit of advice thrown out here ALL the time.... "buy the coin, not the plastic". >>
I have a killer-looking bust half (1828 square base 2; sm 8) in an old green label PCI holder and I was thinking of sending it to PCGS. It is graded MS62 but definitely looks undergraded to me, even by PCGS standards. I am curious, did you send these to PCGS in the PCI holder, or did you crack them out first?
I see this at my local coin shop. Very few coins in PCGS holders. Many, many in the #2 holder...because they can get "their" grade. I don't want coins in the # 2 holder unless they are heavily discounted. Apparently many dealer customers are not nearly as discriminating when it comes to grading. They just buy the plastic.
<< <i>This is simply a matter of opinion. Buy the coin...
Tom >>
I agree 100%. If you don't want to buy anything but PCGS then don't but you'll miss out on some nice coins if you buy just because it's in PCGS plastic.
<<Entertainment value?>>
Priceless.
__________________________
Now go out into the 'marketplace' and look for PCGS 1850-1933 half eagles and eagles...God forbid. They are few and far between available for sale.
<< <i>PCGS coins are the best!! Only buy PCGS coins!! All others are worth much less!! Smart people only buy PCGS coins!!! >>
Do you need a towel? You're dripping koolaid.
<< <i>
Didn't you know that there are NO nice coins except for PCGS slabbed ones
My local dealer swears by PCGS. He only submits raw to them.
And I like that, since at times they are too tough. He dislikes NGC coins because he has trouble selling them....though not to me if they are nice....same for older PCI's or ANACs.
roadrunner
Are people STILL sending coins to NGC instead of PCGS because of the shorter wait times?
Just maybe there are collectors who are mindful of the value and cost of their coins and maybe like to sell a few to raise cash to add to or upgrade their collection. Just cuz I buy a coin doesn't mean that later on that I don't care what its worth.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
I don't doubt that. I guess I am in a minority of people who collect for the fun of it, as a hobby, with no real concern for what the coin will be worth in 5 or 20 years. I was just sharing an observation and not meaning to make you defensive. I stand by my observation.
<< <i>Some of you seem to be missing the point of this post. The fact that Baltimore was flooded with non-PCGS coins does not say that they have greater acceptance among knowledgeable collectors. What it says is that DEALERS increasingly feel that they can't get "their" grades from PCGS. This is what is making PCGS more desirable than ever.
I see this at my local coin shop. Very few coins in PCGS holders. Many, many in the #2 holder...because they can get "their" grade. I don't want coins in the # 2 holder unless they are heavily discounted. Apparently many dealer customers are not nearly as discriminating when it comes to grading. They just buy the plastic. >>
Hmm..... well that's one interpretation. OTOH, I've talked to dealers about this very thing and the concensus answer so far seems to be that PCGS has gone off the deep end and is undergrading by several points. Combine that and excessive time lost waiting for the coins to be returned and it's easy to see why many dealers are not submitting to PCGS in the numbers they used to.
Have you asked dealers about this? Or are you assuming that dealers are all crooked and want to sell overgraded coins. Seems rather odd for long established dealers to universally throw away their principles at the same time, now doesn't it?
From what I am seeing, PCGS is becoming less desirable than ever. I wish it weren't so.
While I can't prove anything empirically, I do know what I've seen in returned submissions. I'm not the only one, obviously.
What was a 66 two years ago should be a 66 today. There seems to be a strong feeling among many that today, that same coin has a very good chance of coming back as a 64. Was PCGS too lenient in the past, or have they become too stringent in the present? It's been generally understod that PCGS was the most conservative over the years as it is. Either way, there seems to have been a change in specifications and to simply paint all dealers being greedy as the problem is shortsighted, IMO. Have all these dealers lost their ability to grade at the same time as well?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>PCGS coins are the best!! Only buy PCGS coins!! All others are worth much less!! Smart people only buy PCGS coins!!! >>
I thought Mr. Hall was a bit more subtle with his alts
<< <i>PCGS coins are the best!! Only buy PCGS coins!! All others are worth much less!! Smart people only buy PCGS coins!!
>>
I hope more and more people come to the same conclusion.
Because it means more coins for me!
everyone said something that i agree with a bit but this chunk
made me feel I have to respond.
Hmm..... well that's one interpretation. OTOH, I've talked to dealers about this very thing and the concensus answer so far seems to be that PCGS has gone off the deep end and is undergrading by several points.
several points? Dealers must be pleased as punch that a company came along that will give them "their" grades while PCGS tries to stick to more "old fashioned" standards. Another year or two of this tightness and PCGS will be ten times more desirable.
I am tired of looking at all the overgraded NGC coins. So much so, I only look at the key dates in their slabs. Even then I end up wasting my time due to high reserves and an overgraded coin.
PCGS just DNC'ed the ANACS. Here they are together. As you can see, the PCGS coin is an absolute BASTION of original color, lack of cleaning, eye appeal, etc etc etc.
Grading is a............ GAME.
The hit by the chin might be a bit bigger in hand vs. photo, and PCGS might deem it not acceptable for one of their holders. Plausible deniability, right?
I had a coin that DNC'd at a 62, but when I cracked and sent in raw it went 63.
What a great way to get 2x the fees
I sent in TWO bust dollars. One did, one didn't.
So.....I was a HALF happy customer.
Now if I sent in .....ONE..... and that ANACS coin (while cleaned but not as bad as the PCGS sample) has SURELY got to match a F-12.
Now if I was stretchin to get big "fine-FIFTEEN" money......well.....that would be a whole lot different.
I remember posting it raw and getting grade guesses of up to VF20.
It isn't, but .......... DAYUM............ does it look like that much liability to say it's a TWELVE?
FR-02?
<< <i>PCGS coins are the best!! Only buy PCGS coins!! All others are worth much less!! Smart people only buy PCGS coins!!! >>
This guy's a clown!!!
<< <i>this thread was fun to read now that i know a bit more.
everyone said something that i agree with a bit but this chunk
made me feel I have to respond.
Hmm..... well that's one interpretation. OTOH, I've talked to dealers about this very thing and the concensus answer so far seems to be that PCGS has gone off the deep end and is undergrading by several points.
several points? Dealers must be pleased as punch that a company came along that will give them "their" grades while PCGS tries to stick to more "old fashioned" standards. Another year or two of this tightness and PCGS will be ten times more desirable.
I am tired of looking at all the overgraded NGC coins. So much so, I only look at the key dates in their slabs. Even then I end up wasting my time due to high reserves and an overgraded coin. >>
You missed the point entirely.
People want the "right" grade. There seems to be little question that PCGS' own standards have changed in the last year. It has nothing to do with dealers wanting anyting. It does have to do with seeing the same coin being downgraded and yes, I am talking about 3 points or more in some cases.
Here's a little help for you. Don't look at any more NGC slabs. You'll save time and the rest of us will find quality coins that some snobs have turned their nose up at because they buy the slab and not the coin. I'm tired of seeing quality coins and good people hurt by improperly low grading.
Remember, never look at any PCGS slab that is older than a year as you are obviously looking at more over graded coins. Sheesh!
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff