Little OT: Silver is a screaming buy now...
Danegeld
Posts: 1,497
$6.90 per oz now. Long Term Investment
Take Care
Ben
Take Care
Ben
100% DAV, Been There and Done That!
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
0
Comments
<< <i>$6.90 per oz now. Long Term Investment
Take Care
Ben >>
how do you figure?
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>
<< <i>$6.90 per oz now. Long Term Investment
Take Care
Ben >>
how do you figure? >>
Just noticed it's below $7.00 and (I, just me) think it's always a good buy when it gets that low...
Ben
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
ERES <---Trust me
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
<< <i>Save yourself some room and buy stock....
ERES <---Trust me
AAPL <---- Trust Me Too
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
TorinoCobra71
'And the experts say Gold is gonna hit $1000 oz in a year or so.....yeah right"
someone wants silver to stay down for a while hence all the uncovered selling.
More or less the same could be said of any commodities market. Should we just buy everything?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Nothing here folks, go back to your 30 year charts and keep calling us crazy. Peace out!
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
and any momentum would drive silver to unreal levels. How much would silver be worth to you if overnight there was none and you knew there would be none for 3 or 4 years until it could be mined from the earth. Would it be worth 7.00 or 700.00?
Oh yeah, unlike buying a commodity like silver, when you sell a position short, you have to buy it back to cover, or close. The higher silver goes, the more money you are FORCED to pay to stop losses. Its great. Its called massive short covering and I like it.
SilverInstitute
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
total open interest is the number of short AND long contracts
maybe the commercials are heavy short, but they are producing the silver for delivery
it has been over 25 years since silver was near $50
I hope I see it again, maybe my silver Roosies would be worth something
K S
I really like the long term for silver.
<< <i>Silver is a commodity that has lost it's largest two markets, film and xrays. IMO it's a very poor investment. >>
Funny that annual silver usage has not decreased. Makes you wonder if people aren't finding other uses for it?
<< <i>for every short contract, there is a corresponding long contract >>
Please cite your source.
<< <i>Oh yeah, unlike buying a commodity like silver, when you sell a position short, you have to buy it back to cover, or close. The higher silver goes, the more money you are FORCED to pay to stop losses. Its great. Its called massive short covering and I like it. >>
I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if the government once again changed the rules in midstream. They did it to screw the Hunt brothers, can you imagine what they would do to bail out the major banks and investment houses who are short on silver?
ps. catalytic converters.
Come on I can say buy Cisco (CSCO) it will hit 20 again this year!
<< <i>Silver is a commodity that has lost it's largest two markets, film and xrays. IMO it's a very poor investment. >>
It hasn't lost them yet but it is losing them. Over the long run I can't see being anything but a bear on silver.
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver is a commodity that has lost it's largest two markets, film and xrays. IMO it's a very poor investment. >>
It hasn't lost them yet but it is losing them. Over the long run I can't see being anything but a bear on silver. >>
Silver is an interesting metal, for many reasons. I don't claim to have a clue where price is heading.
I have been surprised that industrial use has grown, even as the price of silver has increased. Even photgraphic use has only fallen by about 13% over the last ten years. I have seen claims that although digital will contnue to replace Ag based film in the develpoed world, that demand is actually growing for photo silver in locations such as China and India.
As a monetized metal, of course silver is at a fraction of its historic ratio "price" compared with gold.
Don
start to hear that smoething is a good deal, it
usually aint no more.
Camelot
<< <i> Above ground WORLD silver was 202 MOZ. (Million Ounces) in 2004. >>
Do you mean this was new production in 2004? Because it can't be total above ground silver. At one time the US alone had over 2.1 BILLION oz in the Treasury reserves not including all the silver that existed as coins, jewelry, art, hoards, and in industrial use.
I believe the number of some 200 million ounces of silver above ground is accurate. This number was, indeed, much higher a few decades ago, but government stockpiles have been depleted over the years as more silver has been used than has been produced.
Of course, the silver used for photographic etc. purposes is still 'above ground', but most of it cannot be easily recovered.
In fact, the amount of "above ground" silver today is less than that of gold, as incredible as that may sound.
The global silver supply in 2004 was 880 million ounces. Over 630 of this came from mining, 180 from old silver scrap, and the remaining 60 from government sales.
On the demand side, industrial applications account for 370 M Oz, photography ca 180, jewelry/silverware 240, coins/medals 40.
(source: The Silver Institute) www.silverinstitute.org
So digital cameras hit demand, but this impact is not as dramatic as one might think.
The is some interesting and detailed information on the Silver Institute web site under the link "supply and demand".
The following is from the web site of the Pan American Silver corporation: (www.panamericansilver.com)
"For the fourteenth year in a row, fabrication demand outstripped silver supply from mines and scrap sources, by about 60 million ounces. The accumulated silver supply deficit since 1992 is now more than 1.4 billion ounces, which has been satisfied through the disposal of above-ground inventories. In recent years the major source of such inventories has been government stockpiles. In 2004 the US government sold the last of its silver stockpile that had been as large as 2 billion ounces in the 1950s, and the Chinese government sold about 40 million ounces from its stockpile, a sharp reduction from earlier years. With US stockpiles gone and Chinese stockpiles drastically reduced, the only other known government stockpile is in India, which announced in early 2005 that it would sell off its entire 65 million ounce inventory over the next three years at a rate of about 20 million ounces a year."
What will happen if the above-ground stockpiles hit a critically low level... hmm...
(Edited to add "global" to the silver supply info)
Neo...
Just a bit of advice. Whenever us common folks
start to hear that smoething is a good deal, it
usually aint no more
>>
And the fact that "you common folks" disagree so vehemently with us pro-silver people indicates that this has not come to pass. I'll be worried when you skeptics start to agree with us!
<< <i>Do you mean this was new production in 2004? Because it can't be total above ground silver. At one time the US alone had over 2.1 BILLION oz in the Treasury reserves not including all the silver that existed as coins, jewelry, art, hoards, and in industrial use. >>
Condor, that's what happens when you use more of something than you produce--the above ground stockpiles become depleted.
<< <i> I have seen claims that although digital will contnue to replace Ag based film in the develpoed world, that demand is actually growing for photo silver in locations such as China and India. >>
Bingo. While many developing nations DO leapfrog technology (for instance, go from having no phones to having cell phones, thus saving the infrastructure cost of setting up landlines), this is not possible with all technology. Consider that you can get a beginner camera for a few bucks and film for a couple more bucks, but that a beginner digital camera is going to be in the neighborhood of $50, and you then need either a printer, or need to find a store that has digi printers, in order to get any use out of it. While it remains to be seen whether photographic technology will leapfrog in China and other places, there is a strong possibility that it will not. Okay, so maybe 500,000,000 in the US and Europe have switched from film to digital--what about that developing market of 2,000,000,000* in China and India alone--will they leapfrog directly to digital? It remains to be seen. If not, photographic silver use could quadruple, despite WESTERN demand for digital cameras. Ya'll forget that we live in a GLOBAL world these days.
EDIT: *Google states the combined populations of India and China are 2,400,000,000 so add another 400 million to the above number
<< <i>ps. catalytic converters.
I believe catalytic converters use Platinum and related metals, not silver.
However the electronics industry uses tons of silver in plating connectors for semiconductors, as well as layers in traces on circuit boards (gold too)
<< <i>photographic silver use could quadruple >>
Could also see significant growth in jewelry/silverware, which is not even technology dependent..
It is a larger user of silver than photography today, and with growing wealth in China/India there should be increasing interest there for such luxury items too!
It's simple, really.. either gold and silver are BOTH precious metals, or neither are precious metals. Also, if the crap hits the fan, which metal will be more useful as a store of wealth and barter by the sheeple (at current prices) during hard times... gold or silver?
Saying silver is not a precious metal is a very "western" opinion to have, and I'm glad so many have it.. bullishness is a contrary indicator and would like mean the price is fairly valued.. what I want is the continued bearishness I see.
It has been shown that the both the Constitution and the Original Coinage Act of 1792 established the monetary standard to be silver, in conjunction with a bimetallic system of silver and gold coinage.
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The definition of a “dollar” has been found to be a specific weight and fineness of silver; commonly referred to as the silver dollar: 371.25 grains of silver.
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The silver dollar was the unit of money or account that the Constitution and the Original Coinage Act of 1792 established.
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Silver was exchangeable with gold at the rate of 15 to 1.
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Neither the Constitution nor the Original Coinage Act of 1792 mentioned or established a gold dollar.
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A U.S. gold dollar did not exist at this time in history and did not appear until 1849.
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The gold eagle coin was of the value of ten dollars – the dollar being defined as the standard weight of silver of 371.25 grains of silver.
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Gold exchanged for a dollar at 24.75 grains of gold (10 x 371.25 divided by 15), however, there was not any actual gold dollar coin.
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The Constitution established that the States could not accept anything but gold and silver coin as legal tender and that Congress had the authority to mint silver and gold coins, but not the authority to print or emit bills of credit or paper money.
SILVER IS MONEY
The Constitution and the Coinage Act of 1792 both have provided definitions as to what our monetary standard was: a definite weight of silver; and what the monetary system was: silver and gold coin. Without a constitutional amendment, which has never occurred, the same standard is still in effect, whether or not it is followed and practiced – by both the public and or the government. As it is said, ignorance is no excuse for the law – by those that legislate it or not.
An unconstitutional act is against the Supreme Law of the Land, and is as if it never happened. Two wrongs do not make a right. There is a difference between legal, lawful, and constitutional. The Constitution came first, the laws of the land came after. We The People came before the Constitution and before the government enacted by the Constitution, which is why We The People are Sovereign.
Now that we have discovered just what the Constitution and the Original Coinage Act of 1792 established as our monetary standard and system, and what a dollar and money is and isn’t, let’s return to the original task of deciphering the statements in a recent article on silver that stated:
“ if we look at both gold and silver in U.S. dollars, then whatever the effects the dollar had on gold, it would have a similar effect on silver.” and “if both were priced as money, the charts of both would look the same, but they don’t.”
The constitutional dollar is a specific weight of silver. The money of the United States has been defined as silver and gold coin, not bills of credit or paper fiat money. Silver was and is the standard by which the dollar was defined. To accept Federal Reserve Notes or bills of credit as a replacement for the constitutional hard money standard, without a constitutional amendment, is to turn our monetary system upside down – now black is white and white is black.
To say that “whatever the effects the dollar had on gold, it would have a similar effect of silver” is complete nonsense according to the Constitution and the Original Coinage Act of 1792. It mistakenly accepts the unacceptable. It is using the wrong standard as in a double-standard.
To say “if both were priced as money, the charts of both would look the same, but they don’t” is once again, complete nonsense according to the Constitution and the Original Coinage Act of 1792. Money was defined as specific weights or coins of silver and gold, how can one speak of pricing money by that which it is – they are one and the same.
It is only when the unacceptable is accepted; when the unconstitutional is deemed constitutional; when paper fiat Federal Reserve Notes are accepted in lieu of silver and gold coin, that one can even speak in such double talk as if it made any sense about cents, which it does not. This is why it is referred to as a standard – that by which other things are compared and measured against.
This is why the claim is made that we do not know what a dollar is. This is why a Federal Reserve Note can be said to be redeemable in lawful money.
This is why a one ounce silver coin says one dollar on it, yet it can be sold in the market place for $7 dollars.
Silver Peace Dollars 1922
This is why a one ounce gold coin says $50 dollars on it, but can be sold in the marketplace for almost $450 dollars.
It’s called – double-speak or double standard. Wealth transference and nothing more – but perhaps less than nothing will result.
MONETARY VERSUS INDUSTRIAL
Often times the distinction is made between metals being monetary as opposed to being industrial. Common sense, along with the Constitution and Coinage Act of 1792, clearly explain what constitutes monetary metals: silver and gold coin. So what happened along the way from 1792 to the present, to make it appear that the original silver standard is no longer valid and in effect, affect, and or usage? Why do many speak of silver as being only an industrial commodity, when in fact it is the standard of our monetary system?
A lot has happened, more than can be here described. For a more detailed explanation see Honest Money, Part III: Coinage Acts from 1834-1900 as well as the entire Honest Money Series.
Basically what has happened is that the elite money powers have intentionally messed with our monetary system of silver and gold coin to intentionally take advantage of the inherent difference between the fixed rate of exchange and the market’s rate of exchange; which in turn allowed them to purposefully first drive one metal (gold) out and the other (silver) dearer, and then vice versa, until they could manipulate the system so as to be able to give either of the metals a bad name and image to effect what some would call demonetization.
But true demonetization cannot be so determined, it takes We The People to want and ordain changes to our Constitution – it cannot be had by illusion and delusion – the money wizards are powerful, but not as powerful as We The People – unless we accept the unacceptable.
The markets are a law unto themselves and will not be denied. The market is more powerful then any single player or group of market players, no matter how large, as the market is the collective whole of all players. The primary long term trend will always assert itself in due time and course.
As such, those who partake of fixing the fixings should note the workings of a pendulum, and the law behind its motion: two factors effect the swing: length of the pendulum and gravity, which is determined by mass. The faster a pendulum swings, the farther outwards it moves or swings – but the number of pulses does not change. Somewhat related to how a point becomes a circle and time – the measurement of change.
The demonetization of silver was act one of the plan to place the United States and the world on a gold backed standard, to be followed by a totally fiat paper system; all carefully planned and orchestrated steps to bring about a global system of paper currencies; with the final goal of a one world fiat currency – founded and based on a system of perpetual credit and debt of We The People – a system no less oppressive, then the bondage of feudal slavery and tyranny.
The idea was born in infamy, by the elite international bankers, and then pedaled to the United States, Germany, France, and the rest of Europe. The war reparations that France had to pay were involved, as well as foreign trade with India and China, and other eastern nations that were on a silver standard, and the effects all this had on foreign “exchange” and trade, especially to the international elite of England and Lombard Street. As Baron Rothschild once said, “I care not who is King or Queen, as long as I control the money.”
This is how silver came to be viewed as an industrial metal as opposed to a monetary metal – because the money powers could not control a hard money system, they needed an elastic monetary system that could be inflated to suit their purposes of wealth transference – when and by how much they desired. The Federal Reserve Act clearly explains it:
Federal Reserve Act
To provide for the establishment of Federal reserve banks, to furnish an elastic currency, to afford means of rediscounting commercial paper, to establish a more effective supervision of banking in the United States, and for other purposes.
[Dispersed throughout 12 USC; ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251 December 23, 1913.]
And how is the Federal Reserve supposed to supply an elastic currency? The Act answers that as well:
Federal Reserve Act
Section 16—Note Issues
1. Issuance of Federal Reserve Notes; Nature of Obligation; Where Redeemable
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve Bank. [12 USC 411. As amended by act of Jan. 30, 1934 (48 Stat. 337). For redemption of Federal reserve notes whose bank of issue cannot be identified, see act of June 13, 1933.]
Federal Notes “to be issued by the discretion of the Board of Governors” – would that be the same as whenever they want, however they want, in whatever amount they choose? “Federal Notes to be issued for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks and for no other purposes.”
And by what policy is the Federal Reserve to attain its stated purpose. Once again, the Act provides a most clear explanation:
Federal Reserve Act
Section 2A—Monetary Policy Objectives
The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy´s long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates. [12 USC 225a. As added by act of November 16, 1977 (91 Stat. 1387) and amended by acts of October 27, 1978 (92 Stat. 1897); Aug. 23, 1988 (102 Stat. 1375); and Dec. 27, 2000 (114 Stat. 3028).]
One can search the Federal Reserve Act and the United States Code forever without finding a definition of what is meant by: “the economy´s long run potential to increase production”, or “to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment”, or “stable prices”, or “moderate long-term interest rates”; and God only knows what it means to “maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with”; and so far He hasn’t chosen to tell us mere mortals.
Taras Dolphin 300 BC
THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT
* gold is money
* silver is money
* silver is the monetary standard
* gold is used much less in industry
* paper fiat is debt and wealth transference
* silver is an industrial metal as well as a monetary metal
* both silver and gold have been purposefully tarnished to allow for paper fiat
* the monetary system of Federal Reserve Notes has turned our system upside down
The Coinage Act of 1873 is the last piece of evidence we will examine that shows that silver was greatly messed with, and with an intended purpose, just as gold has been.
COINAGE ACT OF 1873
In the Coinage Act of 1873, Congress for the very first time stated that gold coins of the “one-dollar piece”, which contained 23-22/100 grains of fine metal – “shall be the unit of value.”
As previously shown, however, the Constitutional “dollar” was a specific silver coin of a standard weight and fineness. Without a Constitutional amendment to change the original standard, the Coinage Act of 1873 that purports to effect such change, is undeniably unconstitutional.
Syrian Legionary Issue of Augusta VIII
The Act also stopped the minting of Silver Dollars, which is beyond question an unconstitutional act – once again, requiring a constitutional amendment authorizing such change.
Upon first consideration, it would appear that this act demonetized silver coinage, although unconstitutionally; and placed the new gold dollar at the head of the class as the standard – but did it?
Well, not exactly – as it seems that “someone” thought of covering their butt – for the following verbiage is part and parcel of the Act: “…this act shall not be construed to affect any act done, right accrued, or penalty incurred, under former acts, but every such right is hereby saved”, even if such “acts done” and “rights accrued” were “inconsistent” with the 1873 Act.
All of which means that we were still technically (statutorily) on the Constitutional Silver Standard, but practically (as in usage) on the new gold standard – so although the powers that be were trying to make it appear, through illusion and delusion, that silver had been demonetized – in truth it had not.
Only a Constitutional Amendment can demonetize it, and then only within the United States. Such is the power of silver and gold – back through the history of the ages.
However, such false beliefs or lies, when told often enough, for long enough – end up becoming the accepted state of how the general public perceives things to be, which was the intended goal of those that were manipulating the “appearances”, by the various “changes” we have seen implemented throughout our monetary history – showing that our monetary policy has devolved, not evolved, and that unseen hands were guiding such change.
The unacceptable has been spoon fed to We The People to become the acceptable.
So don’t be fooled – Silver Is Money, always has been, most likely always will be – at least until a constitutional amendment changes the Silver Standard that the United States monetary system is built upon. Do not buy the song and dance they are peddling – for when the music stops there will be hell to be paid.
“‘The cause of the lightning,’ Alice said very decidedly,
for she felt quite sure about this,
‘is the thunder – no, no!’ she hastily corrected herself, ‘I meant the other way’.
‘It’s too late to correct it,’ said the Red Queen:
‘When you’ve once said a thing, that fixes it, and you must take the consequences.’”
The United States Silver Dollar Coin
The Constitutional Standard of Honest Money
It’s Time Has Come
As to every purpose there is a season and to every season a purpose.
__________________
When looking for the cause of the world's problems, look where the money is.
<< <i>Could also see significant growth in jewelry/silverware, which is not even technology dependent.. >>
Not to mention non-photographic industrial uses. Half the people over in the "Gold and Silver Economic Predictions" thread are silver bears, yet think China will one day become the world's superpower, eclipsing the US industrially and economically. To date, industrial demand for silver has mostly been limited to "western" nations--The US and Western Europe, combined populations of maybe half a billion. With China and India developing industries for 2.4 BILLION people, what might happen to industrial demand for silver?
<< <i>Silver is a commodity that has lost it's largest two markets, film and xrays. IMO it's a very poor investment. >>
Actually, all these new LCD tv's require silver. There's gonna be lots of them tv's comin out. Also, silver is heavily used in electronics.
Looking for alot of crap.
unless it is made into a superb gem biz strike wildly toned type two three cent silver
or
a monster stellar choice proof dcam trade where the coin looks like one of those new silver eagles only the frost and mirrors are deeper then on the silver american eagle
or
a gem proof monster stellar deep cameo post 1907 barber quarter with the frost on the obverse portrait so deep it would make grown men weep when looking at it
or
a really nice better date collector grade small eagle bust dollar especially so the magic date 1797
or
a really nice collector grade flowing hair half dollar with a R5+ or higher rating
or
a monster toned gem to superb gem biz strike with wild lustre barber dime or quarter
well a small sampling of a list that goes on and on
all tasty choice desirable morsels of silver that excite and enhance the desire of the appetites
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If the shorts are winning, that just makes it even more of a buy!
NOT.
Aaron
Gold and Silver will alway's hold it's value, while we all know at present it's likelihood of ever reaching a equal value isn't going to happen. But having a quantitiy of both are seemingly going to be a much better investment in the long run, than a peice of semi-useless paper with written promise of payment and worth. Promise's were made to be broken. I would much rather have ounce's of silver or gold that is a tangible in my hand asset with proven worth than a Federal Reserve Note anyday.... Afterall you would have a bargaining power. In the event of a crashed market or economy. What's the current value of the dollar today? and what will it be in the day's to come.
Even though this is contrary to my belief in regard's to stock's, If many of you had purchased stock in oil say 6 month's to a year ago, Look where you would be sitting today..... I would like to see silver take a temporary dip right now down to at least $5.00 an ounce and i would jump on every 1 oz. round i could get.
Take a look around you, and consider the current global situation. It's getting worse everyday and i don't think it is going to get better anytime soon. JMHO
Just wondering...
if I look at a historic chart of silver's price, we see that over the 10 year period from mid-1993 to mid-2003 silver gained nothing in price.
When silver is rising it is easy to buy it and hold it. But, how did you feel when year after year, silver was flat? Were you able to stay out of interest-bearing bonds and stick with silver?
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
Take Care
Ben
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!