Is Coast to Coast legit ?

Skipper53 · May 23, 2003 4:38PM

I'm relatively new to coin collecting but I think I can tell the difference between a circulated and an
uncirculated coin. Two years ago I bought a 1934-S Peace dollar from Coast to Coast advertised as
a Gem Brilliant Uncirculated . I submitted it to PCGS and got it back graded as a AU-55. It was tough
spending over $1000 for a coin i was told was uncirculated. It's even tougher getting a grading that
drops the value to $500 ! Would it be best to only purchase coins that have been graded ?
What a pain ! Thanks for lending an ear to a novice..
Skipper53

Lakesammman · May 23, 2003 4:40PM

Huh??

relayer · May 23, 2003 8:22PM

It is cheaper to buy PCGS or NGC coins than raw coins.

In this case alone you would have saved $500

Steve27 · May 23, 2003 8:39PM

The simple answer is not to buy coins of that value raw. If it came back AU58 it might make sense to either resubmit it or send it to NGC, for a second opinion, but AU55 sounds like C-to-C sold you an AU and not a BU coin.

darktone · May 23, 2003 9:16PM

They are either bad at grading or they purposely ripped you off. There is no-way an an AU55 should be passed off as Gem Brilliant Uncirculated! A grade of Gem BU means it should be at least MS65.

mike

Barry · May 23, 2003 9:34PM

I purchased a slabbed coin from them once, no problem. I would never buy a raw coin from them, or any of the other full page advertisers in CW. There are honext dealers out there, and you just have to find them. How? Talk to other people (on this forum, for example) who collect what interests you. Also, I would never buy a coin from a dealer that didn't offer a return policy.

Do they have a return policy? If so, why didn't you return the coin?

RYK · May 23, 2003 9:54PM

I have also purchased a slabbed coin from them once, on ebay, which was no problem. I now receive their monthly catalogs at home. They advertise a lot of raw coins as uncirculated--I suspect that many of these are not indeed uncirculated, but instead "sliders."

I do not not exactly what this term ("sliders") means or where it comes from, but when I hear it, I think C-to-C. My definition would be coins that are as attractive as uncirculated but miss the technical grade due to subtle wear or perhaps subtle cleaning. Perhaps, another member can correct me here. Buying a slider is not always the wrong thing to do. I have purchased beautiful AU-58 coins, paying AU prices, for coins that are visually more attractive than lower grade MS, but miss the technical grade.

I agree with the recommendation not to spend a lot of money on raw coins. My limit for a raw coin, depending on the series, would be $250 to $500, knowing that I may be risking some or all of that purchase price.

Robert

DHeath · May 23, 2003 10:01PM

Here is an old thread I wish you'd have seen prior to purchase.

Rampage · May 23, 2003 10:03PM

Welcome to the boards. Enjoy yourself.

BillJones · May 23, 2003 10:40PM

Big Flashy CW ad

+ No Certified Coins Among the Offerings

+ Descriptions Like "Premium Quality" (but not slabbed) and "Super BU"

+ Bargain Basement Prices

= The SHAFT for Those Who Order

ursabear · May 23, 2003 10:45PM

Welcome Skipper53!

barberlover · May 23, 2003 11:09PM

i have seen those full page adds, this reminds me of why the grading services started in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with buying raw coins from a dealer you trust, or learning the basics of how to grade and buying raw in person. But to just be starting out, not knowing how to grade, and taking the word of a mail order dealer that you don't know and trust is asking for trouble, welcome to your first expensive coin collecting education lesson.
Yes, buying certified is good advice, but before you do, how about the a.n.a. grading guide and a 2003 redbook. a grading seminar if you live in an area where you can attend would be worth it also.
Don't let this kind of experience turn you off to the hobby, there are many great dealers out there who can help you and who will not ripp you off.

I would suggest staying away from mail order outfits though. At least untill you can tell the difference between au 55 and gem bu,to me the term impies they were representing the coin as ms 65 which is considered the lowest "gem grade". Sorry to hear what happened. Les

jonesy · May 23, 2003 11:36PM

Welcome to the Forums Skipper53. We learn our lessons from our actions. Unfortunatley in coin collecting it cost money.

CarlWohlforth · May 23, 2003 11:54PM

I bought a raw proof coin from them once. It was whizzed. I realized it in time and returned it for a prompt refund. I never bought anything else from them.

koinkrazy · May 23, 2003 11:55PM

Hi Skipper, I have bought 3 times from C to C and all three times I returned the coins. I think you can expect any raw coin they list in a certain grade to be at least one grade lower. I beleive this to be true on unc. coins, I have no experience with lower grade coins from them. They did however always return my money with no problems or questions.

cladking · May 24, 2003 12:03AM

Welcome aboard.

Generally it's wise to avoid bargains in this hobby. Everyone won't be trying
to get you to pay far too much, but when they do, it usually will look like a bargain.

Good luck.

thebestMAX · May 24, 2003 12:29AM

RYK-

I have heard the term "sliders" comes from the old days when coins were kept lying flat in chests with drawers sometimes lined with felt..
The coins would slide around and wear off the mint frost. Technically still UNC but showing wear. Some were also caused just by poor handling techniques even on cloth coated surfaces.

Now I just think of it as meaning a coin so close to a grade but not quite making it but being assigned that grade anyway. Not the case in the coin being discussed but rather a 62 being called a 63 for example.

gemtone65 · May 24, 2003 12:32AM

C to C has been in business for over 30 years. The owner is extremely knowledgeable and shrewd in all matters numismatic. So whatever is the true grade of a raw coin he sells, I can assure you he knows what that grade is. Whether he presents it to you at that grade is another matter.

BillJones · May 24, 2003 12:35AM

I agree. Dumb crooks do not stay in the coin business very long. They can make up for a lack of numismatic knowlege with slick marketing, especially in this age of certified coins, but they have to excell at something to prosper.

IrishMike · May 24, 2003 1:13AM

I've purchased several raw IHC's from them at very good prices. I never had to return them. This isn't meant to be an endorsement or non-endorsement, just relaying my experience with them.

roadrunner · May 24, 2003 1:16AM

I purchased a wonderful slabbed PF66 3 cent nickel from them on ebay just 2 months ago. I immediately sold it for a profit as it was very PQ for the grade. Think I paid $500 for it. That's my only transaction with them. I would never do raw with them however.
I can read between the lines.

roadrunner

mnmcoin · May 24, 2003 2:02AM

A couple of recommendations for you.

First, notify Coast to Coast of the matter, tell them you would like your money back or the difference in the value of the coin, if you are okay with an AU55...be generous on your side...meaning find out what a dealer would pay for the graded coin, and subtract that from the $1000 you paid. If you do not find them apologetic and take care of you properly, I would notify Coin World of the matter. They seem to be interested in things like this, and I think that you will be better off for notifying them. Doing nothing in this matter, is exactly what slim shady dealers hope you do. It is on the same level as getting raped, most victims don't come forward, so the perpatrator gets away.

Second, I hate to say it, but learn how to grade. That may come have come out harsh, but most likely if you would have seen the coin as an AU from the start you could have just returned it immediately and probably not have had the stress you are experiencing now. At the very least learn how to tell AU from UNC. That should be a relatively easy start. Go to a show and look at many MS63 and up coins compared to AU50-55 coins.

Sorry you are experiencing the negative side of the coin biz...hopefully you will stick to it and find some good dealers to deal with.

morris <><

Bikingnut · May 24, 2003 2:13AM

Coast to Coast has been around for a long time, and from my experience, most of their stuff is overgraded. I bough one or two coins from them in the past, one a 1934 P Washington advertised as a gem BU which just like your Peace Dollar is an AU.

mrcommem · May 24, 2003 3:06AM

Skipper

In this case BU means BEEN USED. It looks like C to C has ripped you off. Back in 1995 I bought a 48-piece silver commem set from them. When I got the coins many of the them were uncirculated, but some, about 20 coins out of 48 were sliders or just plain been used. I, fortunately sent the whole batch back to them and got my $7500 returned. It was a bad experience and I have never bought a coin from them again. I suggest you buy coins slabbed from one of the top three services (PCGS, NGC, or ANACS). Sorry to say, a $500 lesson in coin merchandising.

copperhead · May 24, 2003 3:19AM

It seems as though the opinions here are in a majority. I also purchased a Merc dime from them ONCE. It was at least one grade maybe two lower than they stated in their description. I usually just learn the hard way. I didn't bother sending it back. I just learned their grading was not to be trusted. Thus, I don't even consider buying ANY coin they may have for sale. LIVE AND LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!

walkerman · May 24, 2003 5:19AM

C to C is just one of several full page Coin world Advertisers that I pass right by when I browse this paper. For twenty five or more years now I've listened to comments from knowledgable dealers and collectors who keep repeating the same thing. Mainly that C to C and the others like them with their double page adds and their generic pictures are well known for over grading and problem coins.This goes back to long before the grading services began. I listened well and never wasted my time (and money) on these over hyped over graded coins. Another favorite of mine is the one who alternates advertising on the back with Delaware Valley who are very reputable dealers. The other outfit has run the same phoney ad for the last 13 years since I first started noticing.You know" A walker bonanza. Hey it really is a bonanza.An old guy walked into our office the other day with his lifelong collection of walkers" etc. etc. Thirteen years and they're still selling off this guys collection of walkers. He must have had ten semi-trucks full. On the other subject,the term slider does go back to the time when raw coins were kept in cabinets with felt or velvet linings. with the drawers constantly being slid in and out,the friction caused rub on the high points of the coin thus causing it to change from unc to au.Some still refer to this as cabinet friction. For a beginning collector I highly recommend starting out with the "safety net" of slabs by the two top grading services. PCGS & NGC. After you become a little more knowledgable, it might be ok to try to cherry pick some bargains in the raw coin market.

paigowjohnny · May 24, 2003 6:02AM

I am a C to C alumnus/veteran/victim. At least your coin got slabbed. Mine all got bagged for cleaning. I had bought a LOT of Morgans from them before I finally figured it all out. The replacement process has been slow and costly, but the lesson has been learned.

newsman · May 24, 2003 10:13AM

The real question is when will Coin World show some courage and act against them for false advertising? I would be happy to provide an example of Coast to Coast's numismatic expertise

, in the form of two "full red Gem BU" Indian head cents which were bodybagged as AT by PCGS and were easily recognized by other dealers as artificially colored (thanks, coinguy1 for your patient efforts last year in Baltimore to show me what a real red IHC looks like). If I had been more knowledgeable, I could have returned the coins and gotten most of my money back -- less postage both ways -- but I also could not bear the thought of the coins being resold to someone who didn't know better.

FatMan · May 24, 2003 11:55AM

Here's a Big Fat Welcome to ya!

Congratulations,.....you have just gone through one of the new coin collector's rites of passage. When I began collecting I too got initiated by a double page advertiser in Numismatic News. Not C to C, but the other guy. Purchase 4 O Mint Premium Quality BU Morgans, sent them to PCGS. Grades AU-55, AU-55, XF-45, BB for cleaning. I learned two things, I needed to learn to grade coins myself and I needed to stay away from those advertisers.I wish I had found this forum before I made that mistake. You're at the right place now. Read, learn and read some more. Welcome.

sinin1 · May 24, 2003 12:20PM

I bought from them once (and never again) - got a BU Isabella on ebay for good price - > a couple months later ANACS said AU58

I learned my lesson, but did not cost much on this coin - more on other coins from other sellers

barberlover · May 24, 2003 12:34PM

Hi Sinin 1, you still out of town ?

Sorry to here they took you to, i can recomend a good honost raw coin dealer if anyones interested.

tporreca · May 24, 2003 12:40PM

C2C and others like them, e.g. Pauls Sims are Ok for some things, i.e. proof sets, mint sets, state quarter rolls, but I would agree with the other posts that raw coins will tend to be overgraded.

sinin1 · May 24, 2003 12:41PM

Actually it was a break even when I thought I did well.

Still in town, looking at New York and California

BAJJERFAN · May 24, 2003 12:47PM

C2C is like ACG but without the slab.

"Screwin the OTHER guy and passin the savings on to you."

ccrdragon · May 24, 2003 12:55PM

Welcome to the boards!!!

I agree with the others - contact C&C and see what they are willing to do to make this right - if they won't, they suck!

Also, get lots of books and know what you are getting into before you get into it! This could be a very expensive lesson, but I am sure that everyone of the people on these boards has gotten the same lesson (I know that I have!).

wallstreetman · May 24, 2003 1:14PM

I dont care if they do make it right, THIS IS HAPPENING WAY TOO OFTEN!

wallstreetman · May 24, 2003 1:17PM

Real question is, How have they been able to rip people off for so long without being shut down?

sinin1 · May 24, 2003 1:23PM

shut down by who? they obviously have a different grading standard than PCGS or NGC

More in line with ACG? - who is going to shut them down?

I have to admit, Coast to Coast has very attractive full glossy mailers that I got for a few months. A nice mailorder piece.

oreville · May 24, 2003 3:20PM

Coast to Coast is not too bad in the classic coins arena but Jonathan Kern head over heels superior to them!

Other areas, the less said the better.

GAT · May 24, 2003 6:00PM

I bought a few Morgans from Coast to Coast 12 years ago. They were all cleaned or whizzed junk. I refuse to deal with them now. Why support a dealer like that?

Skipper53 · May 25, 2003 12:29AM

Thanks for the warm welcome and the advice !
Wish I'd heard about the forum earlier, would have saved me aggravation and money.
i hope to learn enough about collecting to make some contributions myself.
Skipper53

09sVDB · May 26, 2003 4:10AM

Skipper: Stay away from them as all have said. Also turn on your PM's and I will relate my horror story about them. PM me if you would like to hear it.

BECOKA · January 31, 2008 10:06AM

Thought I would bring this back to light in case there are any new collectors that can benefit from this thread.

ahooka454 · January 31, 2008 10:08AM

THANK YOU SIR. I always read thier ads and see them advertising. I cant believe this. What a turd.

CoinHusker · January 31, 2008 10:12AM

<< <i> What a turd. >>

Amigo · January 31, 2008 10:15AM

My experiences with C to C have all been negative. I am convinced they know what condition their raw merchandise is. I've had non reputable proof of a couple items that they purchased at correct grade, then market it way over grade. You can talk till you're blue in the face with them, they won't admit anything.

It's Dealers like C to C that destroy so many newbies. They don't care about the hobby - the're out for as much blood as they can drain from you. They think short term.

I agree, even though it's been a while, call em up. Nicely explain the situation and let them know nicely that you'll be writing a letter to Coin World if they don't rectify it.

Frankcoins · January 31, 2008 10:15AM

They are no longer ANA members, so only the terms of sale in the ad apply. Genuine, and graded to their own interpreation of industry standards. I am a dealer, and 99% of the gold coins I buy are already slabbed. A
beginner should make that 100%

quickwing · January 31, 2008 10:20AM

Yes they have been in business over 30 years. Yes they sell whizzed, cleaned overgraded coins knowingly. On some rare occasion you might get a decent coin that has only been wiped or misrepresented by a mere 1-2 points.
They know a good coin when one comes there way and they slab it and sell it for a fair price, if it will not slab........well that's the stuff ads are made from.

droopyd · January 31, 2008 10:23AM

<< <i>Yes they have been in business over 30 years. Yes they sell whizzed, cleaned overgraded coins knowingly. >>

I bought from them once about 15 years ago or so. Don't remember what, either a Morgan or a classic commem. Returned for exchange, returned for exchange again, then finally returned for refund. Of course I lost out on shipping each time.

I won't be doing business with them again.

ahooka454 · January 31, 2008 10:23AM

i agree and disagree. the buyer is at some degree responsible, but so is the dealer. i dont buy all slabbed stuff. why should anyone unless its a big $$ coin or a key date coins. this isnt the way people should do buisness for any reason.

newsman · January 31, 2008 10:23AM

I'm told they troll shows looking for sliders to buy at AU prices. I wonder what they do with them?

Is Coast to Coast legit ?

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