.

leathtech · March 11, 2009 3:40AM

I will save you the trouble... I'm a little sick to my stomach!

1 1 14414884 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 57 MICHAEL JORDAN Card US

Mphilking · March 11, 2009 3:40AM

oh NO!! It was pack fresh!

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 3:41AM

W-H-A-T T-H-E F-*-*-K!?!

Bosox1976 · March 11, 2009 3:41AM

Lame-O.

Boo PSA!

You should call Joe right away AND email him a link to the box break thread. Don't let it leave PSA without a review!

leathtech · March 11, 2009 3:43AM

anyone have Joe O's phone number... I'd like to give him a call before PSA sends this one back!

HeritageAddict · March 11, 2009 3:44AM

Wow, that really stinks, I think the whole board was pulling for you on this one.

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 3:46AM

I am completely shocked... I don't know what to say. When I read that, I punched my cat in the face!!

lol, I didn't, I love my kitty, BUT STILL!!

What ever happened to Min Size Req?

cubbybear17 · March 11, 2009 3:47AM

Unreal.

onebamafan · March 11, 2009 3:50AM

That inhales vigorously..........................That code has always bothered me, and now just proves why.

mccardguy1 · March 11, 2009 3:50AM

wow... This came at the wrong time for PSA!!

Just freaking unbelieveable. This only makes my decision easier.

Anyone think that this goes with their new business model of giving a lower grade so you keep cracking and resending hopeing to get a bump???

mtcards · March 11, 2009 3:54AM

A super example of why grading needs a set standard to go by. You should be able to sub the same card 100 times and get the same grade 100 times. I would like to know from the joker who graded the card, WHAT exactly was the evidence of trimming? Maybe the fact it was well centered? What a joke

PoppaJ · March 11, 2009 3:55AM

<< <i>Wow, that really stinks, I think the whole board was pulling for you on this one. >>

/////////////////////////

PoppaJ

MeteoriteGuy · March 11, 2009 3:56AM

That is pretty tough. Hope you get it resolved before it is shipped.

storm888 · March 11, 2009 3:57AM

I would be SURE to get JO to take a look at that card before
it is returned.

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 3:58AM

I hate to say I called it...
but I think anytime they see a big money card like that come in that nice.. boom eot

call joe.. he will take care of you..

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 3:58AM

See, there is a HUGE difference between EOT and MinSizeReq. If you're calling it EVIDENCE of trimming, then there should be EVIDENCE! If it's just smaller than a normal card, then call it MinSizeReg!! I'm sorry, this floors me.

In my opinion, it may be asking too much to have them be so consistent to have the same card graded 100 times and always have it come back the same grade, but when it comes to the difference between EOT and MSR, that's huge.

123Slider · March 11, 2009 3:58AM

LakersFAN · March 11, 2009 3:59AM

Wow, unreal , then again it does not suprise me at all , same thing with me, Pack Fresh, Unsearched from a Legit vendor and these grades Popped yesterday, 21 bucks , and i know 21 bucks is not Much but it can add up through out the year

5 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 69 MOSES MALONE Card US
6 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 2 ALVAN ADAMS Card US
7 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US

storm888 · March 11, 2009 4:01AM

"...it may be asking too much to have them be so consistent to have the same card graded 100 times and always have it come back the same grade, but when it comes to the difference between EOT and MSR, that's huge..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ping4u43 · March 11, 2009 4:01AM

<< <i>I will save you the trouble... I'm a little sick to my stomach!

1 1 14414884 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 57 MICHAEL JORDAN Card US >>

We as a group spend $9000.00 + for a box of 86-87 Basketball. Then a grader determines/ evidence of trimming??

With the grader doing that he is calling out Steve from BBCE as selling altered items? IMO that card needs a review by someone else.

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 4:01AM

<< <i>call joe.. he will take care of you.. >>

That's the only thing I would have confidence in at this point, PSA's customer service has always been top notch for me. They really need to revisit this EOT thing. Especially since EOT means you lose your money, and MSR gets you a voucher.

leathtech · March 11, 2009 4:02AM

<< <i>Wow, unreal , then again it does not suprise me at all , same thing with me, Pack Fresh, Unsearched from a Legit vendor and these grades Popped yesterday, 21 bucks , and i know 21 bucks is not Much but it can add up through out the year

5 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 69 MOSES MALONE Card US
6 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 2 ALVAN ADAMS Card US
7 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US >>

wow it looks like PSA needs a new 1986 Fleer grader!

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 4:03AM

lol, maybe the 1986 Fleer grader has a collection of his own that he doesn't want to see the pop increase. (kidding)

billwaltonsbeard · March 11, 2009 4:07AM

As someone who just recently had some very nice 86 fleers come back EOT, I can definitely empathize with you.

49 1 14171099 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 21 ADRIAN DANTLEY Card US
50 1 14171100 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 31 JULIUS ERVING Card US
51 1 14171101 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 36 GEORGE GERVIN Card US
52 1 14171102 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 70 CEDRIC MAXWELL Card US
53 1 14171103 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 73 KEVIN McHALE Card US
54 1 14171104 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 77 CHRIS MULLIN Card US
55 1 14171105 MINT 9 1986 FLEER 83 LOUIS ORR Card US
56 1 14171106 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 126 KEVIN WILLIS Card US
58 1 14171108 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 132 CHECKLIST 1-132 Card US

I've heard several stories about this lately. Is it just this set? Or are EOTs happening alot more lately with all sets?

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 4:08AM

Just so everyone can look at the raw card:

storm888 · March 11, 2009 4:09AM

The thing that throws me.......

MORE than ONE person looks at the card to make the "final"
decision.

The LAST guy to looksee is likely the most "expert." I simply
cannot understand how he goes with EOT when MSR is the
logical call, UNLESS there is REAL and OBVIOUS "evidence."

leathtech · March 11, 2009 4:11AM

Just got off the phone with customer service... No help.

She said the card has already been looked at by 3 graders and if I send it in again it will get the same EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING.

LakersFAN · March 11, 2009 4:12AM

I meen i dont Know the process of how a Grader comes up with his overall grade, but Cmon now, if he has a question with a certain card, would u not think he can Get with another Grader and figure this out before they decide the overall grade? makes sense to Me

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 4:12AM

You have to call Joe. Can you call CS and just ask to speak to him?

leathtech · March 11, 2009 4:13AM

I've sent an e-mail to Steve over at the BBCE where the box was bought from and I'm hoping he has some connections inside PSA that can help me out!

DavidPuddy · March 11, 2009 4:17AM

digicat · March 11, 2009 4:18AM

You should CALL Steve and Joe and try to get immediate resolution to this problem.

storm888 · March 11, 2009 4:20AM

I would NOT talk to the CS folks.

CALL JO and just ask him to "please look at the card."

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 4:26AM

joe@collectors.com
or
jorlando@collectors.com

it has to be handled by him.. what a shame..

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 4:27AM

there are a lot of eyes on this outcome I have to say..
they need to get this right
I am ticked for you

BigRedMachine · March 11, 2009 4:28AM

Two years ago, I cracked a 1965 Steve Carlton rookie out of a PSA 7 holder in hopes of an 8. It came back Evidence of Trimming.

I knew the whole thing was a joke right then. Either it was trimmed before and in a 7 holder or it wasn't trimmed and they decided to say it was.

Either way, I lost faith then, and I haven't paid my dues to be a member since.

And to think of the money people spend for a PSA 10 when in reality PSA can't get it right half the time.

I sure hope you get this resolved, I'll be rooting for ya. I missed out on the group break, but that's one sweet Jordan.

shawn

storm888 · March 11, 2009 4:31AM

emailing JO is not the best route.

CALL him on the phone.

If he is busy or does not call you back quickly,
keep calling until you reach him.

He will look at the card.

cwazzy · March 11, 2009 4:33AM

I don't think calling Steve will do any good. I don't think anyone would open a pack of '86 Fleer, pull a Jordan, and think, "I'm going to trim this card and insert it back into the pack and sell it!" They would pull the Jordan, sell it (maybe trim it first), and then reseal the pack. I would call Joe as that is a bunch of BS.

Chris

jeffcbay · March 11, 2009 4:34AM

I don't want to lose faith... I HAVE to have faith in PSA, because my entire graded Ripken collection depends on their reputation.

I'm not quitting the hobby. I'm not quitting PSA. I just want to see this problem fixed, and fast.

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 4:36AM

definitely have cust service put a hold on that shipment

mccardguy1 · March 11, 2009 4:36AM

This is just wrong!!

I find myself really pissed off and I dont even own the stinking card!! Screw PSA for even making you jump through these hoops. You know right now they are in a no win situation. If Joe does actually do anything and allows the card to be given a grade it will make his graders look like idiots and if he does nothing it will also make his graders look like idiots because we all know where this card came from. Way to go PSA!!! way to lose even more business!!!

ryaneversole · March 11, 2009 4:39AM

This is completely bogus. This is definitely the kind of thing that would scare customers/me away.

tennesseebanker · March 11, 2009 4:39AM

Just send it here............

Send it to these guys.

DavidPuddy · March 11, 2009 4:44AM

Nice link

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 4:45AM

oh tennessee.. that is not a good idea.. not that you care..your bags are packed anyway

mmync · March 11, 2009 4:48AM

What a shame!! This is basically like slapping Steve right in the face.

initialD · March 11, 2009 4:48AM

That totally Sucks!!

I just got my membership freebies graded, one of mine were deemed EOT!!

It was a 73 Schmidt RC that I had personally graded in 2006 and it was an 8.

I recracked it and resubbed it and they say EOT.

I know it's huge BS!! Just a lot more money wasted.

I always wonder if any of these graders are familiar with the different eras or certain characteristics of different issues?

Glad I didn't send in my 86 Fleers on the Group Sub2 I would of KILLED MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

flash49 · March 11, 2009 4:52AM

first sorry for yor predicament,i'm sure it will be resolved.second,nice link and no member dues.a while ago i purchased from steve(1980 football) sent in 2 with my freebees.one psa9 the second minimum size req. same unopened wax box maybe even the same pack.i have not submitted since,but i think you have just suggested an alternate site.thanks.

leathtech · March 11, 2009 4:52AM

I just got an e-mail back from Steve Hart, he gave me the e-mail address of someone higher up in PSA that he thought could help. I'll be sure to let everyone know the out come...

Also thanks everyone for your support - I understand PSA makes mistakes and I hope they are truly trying to protect the hobby and not forcing people to play the resub game.

OAKESY25 · March 11, 2009 4:55AM

I understand PSA makes mistakes and I hope they are truly trying to protect the hobby and not forcing people to play the resub game

you deserve a psa10 for that comment right there.. that is the high road

philipjgolden · March 11, 2009 4:59AM

I had a group of 3 1961 Fleer Basketballs. All from same guy who DEFINITELY did not trim (I bought a massive collection from his childhood). Oscar Robertson came back EOT and the other two graded normally. I think they're completely full of sh**.

.

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