EBayers to add to Block list - Scammer Update

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 3:51AM

katelynnandmckennasmommy

momma1

Block "them".

They have a pretty sophisticated scam going on, I explain after it is resolved.

I had a funny feeling on it, so I took extra care.

It appears I have prevented a 1 oz. Gold Eagle from getting to the bad guys with the help of the US Postal Service Form 1509 - Recall of Mail on my package.

tmcsr69 · July 21, 2008 3:54AM

Shows they have been members for 7 years and no activity the past 12 months. Sure it just isn't a high jacked account?

CB2597 · July 21, 2008 3:56AM

Thanks for the headsup.

segoja · July 21, 2008 4:02AM

Blocked, but would like the details.

Thanks for the heads up!!!

OPA · July 21, 2008 4:21AM

Sure appears to be a hijacked acct. No purchases in years & in the last 30 days, buying nothing but gold...

notwilight · July 21, 2008 4:22AM

Did they have a confirmed address? what method of payment? --Jerry

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 5:21AM

If a package is under 13 Ounces I send it out by First Class Mail, fully Insured with Delivery Confirmation + I add $4.30 and send it with US Postal Restricted Delivery.

This feature is BETTER than Registered mail as the Package must be signed by the Winner, not a relative, friend, etc. and the onus of delivery to Addresses is on Post Office. I call it the poor mans Registered Mail, but the fact is Restricted Delivery is BETTER than Registered Mail. However, Restricted Delivery is only available on First Class or Priority Mail, not Express Mail. BTW, you must send an insurable item like a coin in a Box, not an envelope or your Insurance can be voided by USPS. (I learned this by reading the Postal Regs.)

Auction # 180263930030

Here is the chronology:

1.) Buyer sent an email an hour after winning auction (7-15-2008) and said they would pay the next day.
2.) After two days, I sent an Email asking if there was a problem? No response. I then go to EBay and get Contact info, for phone number, Name, etc.
2A.) No person name, but name of LLC company. I write them and say I will not ship unless I have a name of other end.
3.) 7-18-2008 (Friday) they sent email right before Payment asking if I would Express Mail Package, they would pay extra if I did.
4.) I respond that I would upgrade to Priority Mail from First Class at no charge.
5.) They ask again if I would Express Mail.
7.) I have enough from Auction $1,255.00 to cover Express, so I say yes, but no extra charge would be needed by them, I say.
6.) They paid with a credit card. Full Name given. PayPal provides all.
7.) Payment was Verified as was the Address + I swept funds to Bank Account.
8.) I discover Restricted Delivery NOT eligible on Express Mail. I write buyer that I will not compromise security of a Restricted Delivery for Express. They have not paid for Express Mail; it clearly states that I ship by First Class. Despite this, I ship by US priority instead but retain Restricted Delivery. Shipping Cost Me $26.05 I had $20.25 In Auction.
9.) Sunday, July 20th PayPal notifies me that buyer claims an unauthorized charge has been made by the person who just paid me.
10.) I call Buyer; they said they never filed anything. Maybe PayPal did because they never used account in a while.
Person on the other end of phone can barely speak English.
11.) I call PayPal, and PayPal states that PayPal may have placed halt on account and that if Buyer ok's all is well.
12.) Still Sunday, I call back Buyer they claim they will send copy of Passport (US) to prove identity. I think ok, but if a US Citizen why not a driver’s license?
13A.) Monday, I decide not to take a chance and go to Post Office this morning at Open with a Form 1509 Recall of Mail.
13B.) Back from Post Office, a Copy of passport arrives by Email. Picture of White Guy although the person on phone with same name is female with barley understandable English. I then call PayPal and they say to me "no way" did PayPal initiate charge back, buyer initiated the charge back, buyer has not responded.
13C.) Buyer Calls me twice! stating that all was OK at PayPal and BTW, "How did I send package?"
14.) I note this morning, PayPal says that if Package is delivered and I am cheated, I will be covered by PayPal for full amount as long as I have documentation. Oh yeah?
17.) It appears by on-line tracking, the Post Office caught package before delivery. Not confirmed.
18.) Right now I have a -$1,100+/- balance in PayPal Account, the funds arrived at my Bank Account this am and I quickly swept them into another Account at Bank that cannot be tapped by PayPal. My Bank Account that gets PayPal transferred is a special account I set up that has no overdraft protection and that funds cannot be pulled into it by transfers unless I authorize before hand.

Bottom Line:

I am stuck until I get confirmation Package was truly intercepted. If so, I will file on them at EBay for getting my Auction money returned by ENay.

OPA · July 21, 2008 5:41AM

Stolen card with a hijaked account. Normal M.O.

notwilight · July 21, 2008 5:50AM

<< Stolen card with a hijaked account. Normal M.O. >>

If so, how did they get the stolen card address verified?--Jerry

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 6:33AM

This sure is a wierd one, Jerry.

My antenna went up when she kept insisting on Express Mail, but I was perplexed when everything was confirmed. Email address matched up from EBay Identity Check and Paypal Verified on Invoice. They even had a phone number that checks out. I even Google Earth the address. That was a vacant lot in a nice area of Dallas. It was an apartment address, so the age of the Google photo could allow for the lot now filled with apartments.

Anyway, I'll know in the morning the status of the Package.

Price of Coin after 18 Bidders - $1,225 before shipping, 2nd place was $1,200 Bid so I got a good buck on this (theoretically)

I had $20.25 to Cover shipping, but it was still $26.05:

US Priority Mail = $4.80
US Postal Return Receipt = $2.20 (I added the Green Card for Double Confirmation of Signature, just in case.)
US Postal Delivery Confirmation = $ 0.65
US Postal Restricted Delivery to "Tara Carrillo" , ONLY = $4.30
US Postal Insurance for $1,255.00 = $14.10

Total Cost to ship was $26.05

notwilight · July 21, 2008 7:13AM

Yes, seems like a common Hijack /stolen credit card until you get a confirmed address. If they have figured out a way to make the address confirmed then paypal better be working overtime. Paypal recently added a little green icon with "OK to ship" on it. I bet you even had that, right? --Jerry

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 7:14AM

Yup, I had the "OK to ship"

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 7:55AM

I was just informed by Private Message that this is indeed a SCAMSTER.

JimDepot · July 21, 2008 8:11AM

Watch out for momma1 also.

segoja · July 21, 2008 8:15AM

Sounds like your hunches were accurate and you hopefully have avoided a loss by going to the PO.

PrivateCoinCollector · July 21, 2008 8:20AM

<< This sure is a wierd one, Jerry.

My antenna went up when she kept insisting on Express Mail, but I was perplexed when everything was confirmed. Email address matched up from EBay Identity Check and Paypal Verified on Invoice. They even had a phone number that checks out. I even Google Earth the address. That was a vacant lot in a nice area of Dallas. It was an apartment address, so the age of the Google photo could allow for the lot now filled with apartments.

Anyway, I'll know in the morning the status of the Package.

Price of Coin after 18 Bidders - $1,225 before shipping, 2nd place was $1,200 Bid so I got a good buck on this (theoretically)

I had $20.25 to Cover shipping, but it was still $26.05:

US Priority Mail = $4.80
US Postal Return Receipt = $2.20 (I added the Green Card for Double Confirmation of Signature, just in case.)
US Postal Delivery Confirmation = $ 0.65
US Postal Restricted Delivery to "Tara Carrillo" , ONLY = $4.30
US Postal Insurance for $1,255.00 = $14.10

Total Cost to ship was $26.05 >>

Being able to get out of this mess, Priceless.....

Longshot · July 21, 2008 8:30AM

Thanks Coinboy, that's an educational story.

I had a coin sell this weekend for $750 or so and the buyer sent an echeck. When it clears the buyer wants me to send the coin to his work address (a hospital) because he is not home before 6pm every night. This is of course an unconfirmed address.

The buyer's handle is pausaf. I think I will use this restricted delivery option. Any other suggestions?

notwilight · July 21, 2008 8:33AM

<< Thanks Coinboy, that's an educational story. I had a coin sell this weekend for $750 or so and the buyer sent an echeck. When it clears the buyer wants me to send the coin to his work address (a hospital) because he is not home before 6pm every night. This is of course an unconfirmed address. The buyer's handle is pausaf. I think I will use this restricted delivery option. Any other suggestions? >>

Yes. You can send it to his confirmed address with signature confirmation and they won't leave it there. He'll have to go sign for it. --Jerry

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 8:50AM

Like Jerry said, the $4.30 spent on Restricted Delivery is really your only protection that the actual buyer gets the package. By Postal Regulations , ONLY the addressee can sign, no one else. All insurance does is protect you from Post Office Loss, theft, damage by the Post Office enroute, it has NOTHING to do with the Buyer's protection.

Restricted Delivery os Priceless!

I can now confirm that momma1 and katelynnandmckennasmommy are running a scam .

The delivery address is 7575 Frankford Road, Dallas Tx 75252. (Apt. 322)

They are using a voice scrambler on the phone. I just called and the horribile accent suddenly got better English.

Here is a copy of the Passport they sent me. It looks like it was Photoshopped

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 8:51AM

E-Check is pretty good, I would worry less about an E-Check than anything!

YaHa · July 21, 2008 9:03AM

I have one question though? Why would they at for a charge back at paypal if they are stealing from you and the person on the stolen credit card? If I read that right you said paypal wanted to put a hold on you funds. See that makes no sense. enlighten me more.

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 9:21AM

Simple, after I shipped, I sent tracking number, so with that knowledge, they than filed an unauthorized use of the card. They tell PayPal they never ordered the coin. In the mean time, by the time the dispute is settled, the coin gets delivered. The key is they file BEFORE the package arrives, NOT after.

The Scammer apparently (thank goodness) did not know about Using Postal Form 1509 for Mail Recall or the rules of Restricted Delivery.

If I sent them a coin like 99% of EBay sellers with Signature Confirmation ONLY, anyone can sign. A person at the address other than the Buyer can sign when the Post guy knocks. The Postal Carrier is not required to get anything but a signature from a "body" at the address. It could be a cousin.

All Paypal wants is the money back that the credit card company charged back to PayPal. The Credit Card company is the one that gets PayPal off the hook, NOT PayPal. Thus, PayPal's interest is PayPal's charge back from Buyer's Crad, I am last on totem pole.

Mar327 · July 21, 2008 9:23AM

I'm so glad your radar was working and you knew about restricted delivery. It's such a complicated mess, and I sure wouldn't trust PayPal to cover everything.

onejinx · July 21, 2008 9:33AM

<< 
Here is a copy of the Passport they sent me. It looks like it was Photoshopped

>>

Definately a fake passport. passports are good for 10 years, not 5. And there are a few other things wrong

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 9:43AM

Thanks, Mar327!

Here are the steps for anything valued at over $200:

1.) Once Auction ends go o EBay’s "Find Contact Information" and get that sent at once.
2.) Make sure the Buyer is a Person's Name not a Company. This is important!
After Payment make sure Buyer is Verified !! If not, stop all shipping and refund.
Make sure address is confirmed, if NOT but buyer is verified, contact the buyer by phone from info obtained from EBay.
No phone number, do not ship until you get one.
Use Google Earth to view location coin will be sent. If it is a Junkyard, chances are your coin is going to be scammed. You would be surprised that just this verification by Google will save you a ton of headaches.
If winner’s name is different from PayPal’s verified name, you will need to call. Sometimes this happens, wife buying for husband, but .01% of the time it’s a scam.

3.) Depending on weight, use ONLY First Class or Priority Mail so you can use Restricted Delivery.
4.) Ship in a Box, not a Padded Envelope or anything NOT a Box. This is so any Insurance Claim is valid. Read the rules and you will agree with this because the rules to collect Insurance require a Box. I know this sound s nuts, but read fine Print.
5,) Ship with Insurance only to protect against Postal Service Mishandling.
6.) Get Delivery Confirmation for 65 Cents, this allows you to track the Package on line. This is the Green Sticker
7.) Wrap in Brown Reinforced US Postal Tape, use a US Postal box that can be turned inside out and you save getting charged ;>
8.) Write address by hand + return address clearly and write on package "Restricted Delivery" Do this in case you for get to get it and in case the Postal clerk forgets to stamp it. If he charged you, but forgot to stamp it, the Carrier will still be reminded.
9.) Save Receipts! You will end up with three pieces of Paper, the actual Postal Payment receipt with all of the vitals such as weight, time out, Insurance #, Tracking Number. You get a Blue Insurance Receipt with a number. NEVER send that to Buyer, it’s not for them, its for YOU, incase you have a problem with Post Office. A Bad guy can use that against you!. Green Confirmation Number is the actual tracking number that you can send to Buyer if you want.
10.) When in doubt run to Post Office ASAP with Form 1509 to Recall the Mail. This is the second time I have done it!

Anyone else, please add to list!

COINB0Y · July 21, 2008 9:45AM

Definately a fake passport. passports are good for 10 years, not 5. And there are a few other things wrong

Great Catch!

lcoopie · July 21, 2008 10:53AM

this should be reported to homeland security

OnlyGoldIsMoney · July 21, 2008 11:04AM

Coinboy, Good luck in getting your ebay item returned. Your ten steps to fend off scammers are invaluable. I have been shipping for 30 years and this is the first time I ever heard of Form 1509 to Recall the Mail.

Thank you for explaining all the pitfalls and how to defend against fraud.

prooflike · July 21, 2008 1:23PM

You can get restricted delivery on Registered Mail - there is a spot for it on the form and everytime I send Registered they ask if I want restricted delivery - maybe I will start using it.

notwilight · July 21, 2008 2:44PM

Coinboy
I think your list of 10 items will result in a lot of false positives if applied to every sale. I use such measures only when I get an alarm. --Jerry

JimDepot · July 22, 2008 3:30AM

Did you get the coin back Coinboy?

Bochiman · July 22, 2008 5:06AM

Good for you in catching the scam AND posting here.
Good to know.

ebaytrader · July 22, 2008 5:21AM

<< this should be reported to homeland security >>

They're too busy strip searching granny at the airport.

SLIDE · July 22, 2008 5:50AM

just to mention to all: i also am unable to sign for packages b/c i work in a city other than where i live. i cannot pick up at the post office b/c it is closed when i leave for work, and it is closed when i am on the way home. thus, i often put a note on my paypal invoice/payment requesting that the seller mail to my work address (which if you recall is over an hour drive from my house - and down here in alabama we dont have the metro traffic). i have a good feedback rating, and have great feedback left for me by all sellers. thus, i have had no problem with sellers mailing to my work, and i love receiving my coins here. however, i do use the same dealers almost all the time, so they know i am honest. also, it helps to pay as fast as possible to your seller. i always pay immediately after winning (see my feedback). i think, if a seller checks out a person's feedback comments, and how many they have, things may be easier to deal with. not much use in calling someone, b/c you never know how many people are in on the scam (they likely order all types of items and not just coins). look on the feedback numbers to see what they usually purchase. look for coin dealers they bought from, that have great reputations, and see if they had any problems. look and see how much they typically spend. i hardly sell anything, and am an avid coin buyer. but, i dont want things to get messed up for us buyers b/c of a scammer. in addition, coinboy, i think you did an excellent job. if you are really a "boy" i think you would have a great career as a detective or attorney.
ryan

notwilight · July 22, 2008 5:56AM

Ryan,
Because I know you and have shipped you many things I'm glad to ship to your work address. But paypal warns sellers that shipping to and unverified address is more dangerous than juggling running chainsaws. An easy solution is to get one credit card that you link to your paypal account swithced to your office as a billing address. --Jerry

Casman · July 24, 2008 4:37AM

Well, what happened?

COINB0Y · July 24, 2008 5:26AM

I wasn't going to post until I had it back in-hand, but I just got off with the US Postal Inspector out of Dallas, TX. The Agent said that this has been going on for 6 weeks, he has other cases all traced to this outfit running the scam. It's a big case..

They are targeting Gold Bullion Coins

(My own USPS Tracking and my friendly Postal Clerk have confirm that it was NOT delivered.)

The postal Inspector agreed that the thing that saved me was the Form 1509 and the Restricted Delivery. He also confirmed that the scam works pretty much like I detailed:

1.) They Win Auction promise to pay next day.
2.) They delay payment for 2-3 days and email Seller that " they are about to pay by PayPal" and say "they want to change delivery to Express Mail and they will pay the up charge for Express"
3.) They ask for Tracking Number within minutes of Payment, they follow-up by calling seller explaining how they are worried and then ask how Coin was shipped.
4.) They also offer to send Passport ID as proof to confirm ID.
5.) Within a Day of getting Tracking Number, they file against PayPal for unauthorized charge on Credit Card.

Here's where they have thought out the scam:
1.) They file at PayPal immediately BEFORE delivery of Package. The know that PayPal will immediately freeze funds of Seller and ask Seller for Tracking # (All by Email)
2.) They know that when the Seller gives PayPal the tracking number and the PayPal guy has it checked, it shows the Package is enroute and NOT delivered, yet
3.) This is how they look like an innocent person.
4.) The are assuming that Package will arrive with only signature confirmation (where anyone can sign for addressee) + BECAUSE they did NOT order the Coin, they can later claim they did not get Package

Scammers did NOT anticipate that anyone could use Form 1509 Recall of Mail and also they were not aware of US Restricted Delivery which requires ID and signature of the addressee ONLY.

The key to this scam is the DELAY and absence of any action by PayPal, which immediatley favors the "victim" and credit card company instead of the seller. PayPal has done nothing in terms of any communication or information to me as to the status of the "investigation" other than attempting to grab my funds.

The US Postal Inspector said that the ONLY reason he is on the case is because of the calls about the scam to Dallas, TX post office, NOT PayPal/EBay.

All I can say is I am out the cost of shipping, but that's nothing in-terms of getting hosed and at least they are going to get nailed.

The Agent was very interested in the copy of the forged Passport. Nice catch onejinx!

A 5 year Passport is only used for children, 10 year for adult. He confirmed others have been sent the same thing.

The two ID's listed are for sure momma1 and katelynnandmckennasmommy

The delivery address is 7575 Frankford Road, Dallas Tx 75252. (Apt. 322)

They are also using a voice scrambler on the phone calls they make.

SirAnthonyAC · July 24, 2008 6:00AM

<< I had a coin sell this weekend for $750 or so and the buyer sent an echeck. When it clears the buyer wants me to send the coin to his work address (a hospital) because he is not home before 6pm every night. This is of course an unconfirmed address. The buyer's handle is pausaf. I think I will use this restricted delivery option. Any other suggestions? >>

The E check is fine, it just means his Pay Pal account is linked to his checking account without a credit card backup. The E Check won't clear until Pay Pal acutally has the money (which is a good thing) and payments with an E Check have a $5 max fee... so you would have paid Pay Pal $21.75... instead you saved that money!

The wining bidder can change his confirmed address, it takes a few days, ask him to do it now so you can ship the coins once everything has cleared.

jdillane · July 24, 2008 8:40AM

Having been scammed for about $10K on two bad ebay deals, I am pleased to see that you have averted a "hosing".

Thanks for sharing your experience. It may well serve to help others avoid being scammed.

Russ · July 24, 2008 8:59AM

This momma1 won a gold Buffalo on the 20th. I sent that seller a heads up with a link to this thread.

Russ, NCNE

Bochiman · July 24, 2008 9:19AM

<< 

<< I had a coin sell this weekend for $750 or so and the buyer sent an echeck. When it clears the buyer wants me to send the coin to his work address (a hospital) because he is not home before 6pm every night. This is of course an unconfirmed address. The buyer's handle is pausaf. I think I will use this restricted delivery option. Any other suggestions? >>

The E check is fine, it just means his Pay Pal account is linked to his checking account without a credit card backup. The E Check won't clear until Pay Pal acutally has the money (which is a good thing) and payments with an E Check have a $5 max fee... so you would have paid Pay Pal $21.75... instead you saved that money!

The wining bidder can change his confirmed address, it takes a few days, ask him to do it now so you can ship the coins once everything has cleared. >>

Not actually linked to checking account w/o CC.....a buyer can use echeck if they want, even if linked to CC. I've done it, it does do exactly what you said though.....takes a few days to clear, and only costs $5. I've used it when I have bought something expensive and like the seller and want to save him fees (on the other side, when I sell expensive things, I will certainly give free shipping/insurance to the buyer who uses echeck to pay me

)

COINB0Y · July 24, 2008 1:30PM

Tracking Confirmed! My baby is on the way back home ;>

Detailed Results:

Return to Sender, July 24, 2008, 3:46 pm, DALLAS, TX
Arrival at Unit, July 21, 2008, 7:52 am, DALLAS, TX 75248
Processed, July 18, 2008, 7:55 pm, PITTSBURGH, PA 15290
Acceptance, July 18, 2008, 1:56 pm, ERIE, PA 16506

Swampboy · July 24, 2008 1:36PM

My hat's off to you COINBOY.

garsmith · July 24, 2008 2:12PM

Someone on vacation or working in Asia got thier documents stolen - good luck

garsmith · July 24, 2008 2:14PM

<< Like Jerry said, the $4.30 spent on Restricted Delivery is really your only protection that the actual buyer gets the package. By Postal Regulations , ONLY the addressee can sign, no one else. All insurance does is protect you from Post Office Loss, theft, damage by the Post Office enroute, it has NOTHING to do with the Buyer's protection.

Restricted Delivery os Priceless!

I can now confirm that momma1 and katelynnandmckennasmommy are running a scam .

The delivery address is 7575 Frankford Road, Dallas Tx 75252. (Apt. 322)

They are using a voice scrambler on the phone. I just called and the horribile accent suddenly got better English.

Here is a copy of the Passport they sent me. It looks like it was Photoshopped

>>

Did you notice the passport is not signed

Bochiman · July 24, 2008 2:18PM

Any guys named "Tara"?
I've known more than a few women with that name, but no guys....

Coinboy, congrats on not getting rooked with this.

adamlaneus · July 24, 2008 2:29PM

What an amazing story of a near miss scam! When was the point at which you decided to recall that package? When they e-mailed you an image of that passport? That would creep me out.

commoncents123 · July 24, 2008 2:59PM

<< BTW, you must send an insurable item like a coin in a Box, not an envelope or your Insurance can be voided by USPS. (I learned this by reading the Postal Regs.) >>

Hang on, so if I insure something in a yellow bubble mailer, it won't be covered? That's jacked up and senseless.

TorinoCobra71 · July 24, 2008 9:47PM

COINBOY,

Glad to hear that this will work out for you. To see this makes one feel good and that the little guy can win one once in a while.

COINB0Y · July 24, 2008 11:19PM

Hang on, so if I insure something in a yellow bubble mailer, it won't be covered? That's jacked up and senseless.

I couldn't believe it either! But here it is in Black & White!:

4.2.3 Ineligible Matter
The following types of mail may not be insured:

a. Parcels containing matter offered for sale, addressed to prospective purchasers who have not ordered or authorized their sending. If such matter is mailed, payment is not made for loss, rifling, or damage.

b. Nonmailable matter.

c. Articles so fragile that they cannot be carried safely in the mail regardless of packaging.

d. Articles not adequately prepared to withstand normal handling in the mail. As a rule, any mailable package should be insurable.

e. Mail not bearing the complete names and addresses of the sender and addressee.

f. Standard Mail letters, flats, and NFMs.

g. Matter mailed at First-Class Mail prices (including Priority Mail) that consists of items described in 123.3.0, Content Standards for Priority Mail; 133.3.0, Content Standards; 233.2.0, Content Standards for First-Class Mail Letters; 333.2.0, Content Standards for First-Class Mail Flats; and 433.2.0, Content Standards for First-Class Mail Parcels, and required to be mailed at First-Class Mail prices.

US Postal Regulations Link

COINB0Y · July 28, 2008 4:16AM

Just got the Coin back from Dallas Post Office from the Form 1509 Action.

Great ending, thanks to USPS!

Now, if only PayPal would respond to my information.....whelp, its only been 8 days...

EBayers to add to Block list - Scammer Update

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EBayers to add to Block list - **Scammer Update**

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EBayers to add to Block list - Scammer Update