I am no expert on grading Seated material but I do not see any rub on this one and it looks very clean to me. Pictures are often deceiving but this one could be MS65. Note that if I am way off I will refrain from attempting to grade future Seated material.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
If it's a 58 it's a frickin' awesome one. And, per earlier gradeflation threads, I'd be surprised that it's still in a 58 holder. That said, I clicked 64. This one's unusual in that, at least from what I can see in the pic, the obverse is better than the reverse. They seem rarely to come that way.
I'd grade the reverse only a 64 because it appears to have some chatter and wipes above and below the eagle. The obv is essentially 65 but the reverse should keep it out of 65. For what it's worth I've seen a top tier TPG grade a worse coins as 66....but that doesn't change what the coin really is.
In a 65 holder this would be a low end 65 imo and in a 64 holder a very solid or PQ piece. Nice coin...where's the "S" mint mark??
It appears the marks near star 7 & Miss Liberty's head are on the holder, not the coin. I agree w Roadrunner, think it's an MS 64. There's too much chatter on this coin for a 5.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Just saw this. No fair guessing now, but I figured either a 58 (if they caught the rub, or old holder) or 63-4 (if market graded, or newer holder). If that's a 55, it's the nicest I've ever seen in a 55 holder. Wanna sell it? I'll pay full bid for it!
Seriously, if you paid anywhere near AU money for it, it was the steal of a lifetime! (63 money was still a good bargain even, IMO)
I could see a 63 due to the chatter. But I don't see any wear, nor do I see any differences in color / luster breaks which would lead me to believe it's an AU. Even the eagle's wingtips are full, which is the first place I look to see wear.
Perhaps there are some luster breaks that don't show in the image.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
i saw some moderate "cabinet friction" but thought it was lovely. i'd love to buy it as a 55, but am shocked its not in a 62 holder (my guess from only first pictures)
With my guess at 64 and possible higher, I suppose I should call David Hall and withdraw my application for a grading job. How this grades 55 is beyond me.
by the way, no one should feel bad for a high estimate, this was a tricky one! the coin looks like a MS63, just the kind of coin I like in my Dansco album, looks a lot more expensive than it really was the 1860 upgrades me from this 1844
that's a coin I'd like to have seen when it came off the dies... wow
Thank you Baley for an educational exercise in why you shouldn't buy a coin based on an image alone. I would hope that I could pick up the light cleaning if I saw the coin in hand (but this is why I like a second set of eyes to look at a coin in case something like this gets by me).
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>anyone else have some seated halves to show? >>
There are a couple in my 7070 (click on link in sig line for full set). Both were cracked out of holders if anyone wants to play gtg. Here are a couple of bigger pics:
The coin is AU55 ........I'm surprised no one got it "right"
What do I think? For starters, the grading service got this one horribly wrong. Even from the photo the fact that the coin has a full, uninterupted cartwheel is hard to miss. The usual spots where rub is found are perfectly peaked and rounded (eagle's brow-wingtips-knuckles, arrow head tips, Liberty's cheek-hair-arms-breasts-drapery lines, etc.). Might be the slightest touch of flatness at the very end of Liberty's leg/knee area. But I've seen so many TPG MS64's with massive plateaus all the way down her leg that this is more than market acceptable for a MS63/64.
The real kicker is that the flat part of the obverse rim from 11:00 to 3:00 is rough and perfectly coated in mint luster. That's usually the first thing to start going when coins are handled while in circulation. You just don't see AU coins with full field luster and rim luster. And if you do, then they are still worth MS63 money. Some old time cabinet-kept coins do show those particular features. Note also the unmolested wire rim on the obverse. If the grading service was net grading this coin for some other issue such as cleaning, etc. then it should have been body bagged in the first place. It seems inappropriate to me to take an otherwise choice unc coin and then holder it by lowering it 7-9 MS points.
I guessed MS62 due to the work done under the eagle. AU55? Hmmmm - only if it was severely net graded instead of body bagged. Is that an ANACS holder? My first hand experience with ANACS is that they used to silently net grade coins the other services body bag.
Yes, there's a patch of hairlines below the eagle, and a few elsewhere on the reverse. And yes it was "net 55" and yes this was a long time ago... it's been in the album 5 years. Was just curious to see how the bell curve looked after a few newer members voted in the poll
I am by no means an expert on seated coins. I only own 2, a 20¢ piece and a half dollar. But there is no way I see AU 55 on that one. No, No, No, that just won't do.
Ron
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
This coin graded MS61, ironically I sold both my 63's cause this one just looked nicer, the 61 has way more luster (cartwheel booming) and less chatter. Why it graded MS61 I don't know but I guess there is something they don't like about it.
Funny that I thought this was a new post and then realized I had already voted 5 years ago. So I made a different attempt 5 years later (w/o peaking) and came up with 63/shot to 64 due to some wiping under the eagle and chatter above its head. The obverse still looks very choice. That's a full grade lower than what I thought 5 yrs ago. Grading is not static - neither for us or the TPG's. I agree with the rest of my old comments. The luster on that coin is just not correct for an AU55 coin.
Comments
TorinoCobra71
Anyway, beautiful coin.
edited to add: The obverse rim at 1 o'clock looks a bit banged up. How much that factors in to the grade, I wouldn't have a clue.
In a 65 holder this would be a low end 65 imo and in a 64 holder a very solid or PQ piece. Nice coin...where's the "S" mint mark??
roadrunner
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I'm surprised no one got it "right"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Oh, wait a minute it's down low. Did you vote 55?
Seriously, if you paid anywhere near AU money for it, it was the steal of a lifetime! (63 money was still a good bargain even, IMO)
CG
Perhaps there are some luster breaks that don't show in the image.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Great coin for an album type set
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
the coin looks like a MS63, just the kind of coin I like in my Dansco album, looks a lot more expensive than it really was
the 1860 upgrades me from this 1844
that's a coin I'd like to have seen when it came off the dies... wow
What do you think this one grades?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I voted.
Did I win?
My posts viewed times
since 8/1/6
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
MORE THOUGHTS:
The coin does not look cleaned from the photos. I'll bet that someday it ends up in a major brand holder with a mint state designation.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Want to sell it for AU-55 money?
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Wow, OLD resurrected thread! Why?
Gary
<< <i>anyone else have some seated halves to show? >>
There are a couple in my 7070 (click on link in sig line for full set). Both were cracked out of holders if anyone wants to play gtg.
Here are a couple of bigger pics:
Lance.
What do I think? For starters, the grading service got this one horribly wrong. Even from the photo the fact that the coin has a full, uninterupted cartwheel is hard to miss. The usual spots where rub is found are perfectly peaked and rounded (eagle's brow-wingtips-knuckles, arrow head tips, Liberty's cheek-hair-arms-breasts-drapery lines, etc.). Might be the slightest touch of flatness at the very end of Liberty's leg/knee area. But I've seen so many TPG MS64's with massive plateaus all the way down her leg that this is more than market acceptable for a MS63/64.
The real kicker is that the flat part of the obverse rim from 11:00 to 3:00 is rough and perfectly coated in mint luster. That's usually the first thing to start going when coins are handled while in circulation. You just don't see AU coins with full field luster and rim luster. And if you do, then they are still worth MS63 money. Some old time cabinet-kept coins do show those particular features. Note also the unmolested wire rim on the obverse. If the grading service was net grading this coin for some other issue such as cleaning, etc. then it should have been body bagged in the first place. It seems inappropriate to me to take an otherwise choice unc coin and then holder it by lowering it 7-9 MS points.
roadrunner
Was just curious to see how the bell curve looked after a few newer members voted in the poll
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>anyone else have some seated halves to show? >>
Ron
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>that's a heck of a good lookin 55! >>