What Determines when a Replica must be marked, COPY?
braddick
Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭✭
I know if currency is copied yet is of a much larger size than the original, it doesn't need to be marked nor is it illegal to print. (Please, a currency guy correct me on this! Perhaps the laws are different now?)
Why is it if a 'coin' is minted in replica form, taking on a much larger size than the original, it must be marked, COPY?
I understand why the Standing Liberty quarter on the right of the photo isn't mark. (Love it or not) the law allows for this as it is struck over a genuine Standing Liberty quarter and thus is an altered, albeit real coin, but the one on the left?
It is a giant compared to the regular, regulation sized quarter yet is marked.
Legally, does it need to be or unlike currency, any replica of a genuine u.s. struck coin must be marked COPY?
Why is it if a 'coin' is minted in replica form, taking on a much larger size than the original, it must be marked, COPY?
I understand why the Standing Liberty quarter on the right of the photo isn't mark. (Love it or not) the law allows for this as it is struck over a genuine Standing Liberty quarter and thus is an altered, albeit real coin, but the one on the left?
It is a giant compared to the regular, regulation sized quarter yet is marked.
Legally, does it need to be or unlike currency, any replica of a genuine u.s. struck coin must be marked COPY?
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Comments
Line # Date Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1999 1C USA MS63RD
2 1937-D 5C 3 Legs USA AU55
3 1836 $2.50 Script 8 USA VF20
4 1848-C $2.50 USA Genuine - XF Details (98 - Damage or Tooling)
5 1905-S $5 USA Genuine - XF Details (92 - Cleaned)
6 1887-S $10 USA Genuine - VF Details (92 - Cleaned)
7 1853 $20 USA Genuine - VF Details (98 - Damage or Tooling)
8 1879-S $20 USA XF45
9 1896 $20 USA AU50
10 1898-S $20 USA AU55
11 1909-S $20 USA MS62
12 1922 $20 USA MS62
13 1926 $20 USA Questionable Authenticity
14 1932-D 25C USA AU55
14 1932-D 25C USA AU50
14 1932-D 25C USA AU55
14 1932-D 25C USA XF45
15 1936-D 25C USA AU55
LINE # 13
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Geez, just leave the poor man alone. No need to start a thread about this topic...if you don't like his work, don't buy it. >>
Are you serious?
I love his work.
(I probably spend a little over 1K purchasing his coins just this week...)
This has nothing to do with DC- no, instead I am curious if super-sized replica coins such as the one I own and photographed needs the COPY mark as I know oversized currency does not.
I'd love to leave DCs coin out of the discussion.
<< 18 USC § 486 - Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal: Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. >>
The law determines when a coin or fantasy piece needs COPY. Given the laws above, my (non-legal) interpretation is that the Hobby Protection Act may not apply but the issuers of super-sized pieces may be applying COPY to avoid violating the law against uttering. However, I'm not sure the COPY is strictly needed if the super-sized pieces can be considered fantasy coins as there have certainly modern strikings of rejected designs such as the Morgan Unions that have been slabbed by NGC. My guess is these companies would prefer to err on the side of caution.
proceed!
<< <i><< Hobby Protection Act § 304.1.(d): Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. >>
<< 18 USC § 486 - Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal: Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. >>
The law determines when a coin or fantasy piece needs COPY. Given the laws above, my (non-legal) interpretation is that the Hobby Protection Act may not apply but the issuers of super-sized pieces may be applying COPY to avoid violating the law against uttering. However, I'm not sure the COPY is strictly needed if the super-sized pieces can be considered fantasy coins as there have certainly modern strikings of rejected designs such as the Morgan Unions that have been slabbed by NGC. My guess is these companies would prefer to err on the side of caution. >>
I had to look that term up. It's been awhile since I've seen it used.
LINK
Talk about wanting to err on the side of caution!
I think they were erring on the side of caution, too.
DC is taking a stand that no such caution is warranted. Like it or not, Agree or disagree.
3" size? 3' Wall mounted plaque?
What I've learned, reading around the net, is the mark isn't necessary unless the object/replica is also close in size to the original, authentic coin.
Coin doctoring refers to the alteration of any portion of a coin, when that process includes any of the following:
1) Movement, addition to, or otherwise altering of metal, so that a coin appears to be in a better state of preservation, or more valuable than it otherwise would be.
<< <i>Re DC... whether or not his creations should be considered copies has already been discussed extensively. Assuming for the sake of argument that they are not counterfeits, his creations would appear to possibly make him a coin doctor according to the PNG. From the PNG thread:
Coin doctoring refers to the alteration of any portion of a coin, when that process includes any of the following:
1) Movement, addition to, or otherwise altering of metal, so that a coin appears to be in a better state of preservation, or more valuable than it otherwise would be. >>
Altering a date on a coin would be something a coin doctor would do..... e.g. 1944D to 1914D cent
but this is the subject of another thread....
can't we chase this one dog's tail in this thread and go to the PNG thread to chase the other tail?
<< <i>Don't shoot the messenger. PNG wrote that definition, not me. That it appears to include DC's creations is not my fault. >>
PNG was obviously refering to adding a mintmark. tooling, or similar alteration. It's doubtful they are refering to Dan Carr's creations.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>PNG was obviously refering to adding a mintmark. tooling, or similar alteration. It's doubtful they are refering to Dan Carr's creations. >>
I was just reading their rule as written. I was not attempting to read their minds regarding what they intended to say but did not actually include in the rule.
Mostly, the level of honesty, integrity, and motives of the folks making the replicas.
Of course, for anyone in the Replica business, these terms are relative, and planned weaving through all the appropriate loopholes can make a big the difference in perception
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