Went to the "Hotel Buyers" this morning...........
Geoman
Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
We all have heard this story before....... a company takes out a large, full page color ad in the local newspaper advertising to buy gold/silver, coins, jewelry, etc. So I decided to stop down there this morning to check it out. Their full page ad said "Annual Coin Show" and that they are an "collector's club" and you can sell directly to "collectors" that will pay more. It was my first time going to one of these and I figured I wouldn't get offered much - and I didn't.
It was set up in a hotel room, and when I walked in I asked them were the "coin show" was. They said they didn't have anything to sell, where only buying. I told them it was advertised as a coin show, and that usually at coin shows you can buy coins. Anyways, I let then give me an offer on what I brought. I brought a ziploc bag of 90% silver, along with some circulated Morgans/Peace Dollars. I did throw in a circulated 1882-CC Morgan in VG. They offered $15 each for the Morgan/Peace Dollars. They didn't catch the CC-Morgan; I watched and the kid doing it never flipped it over to check for a mint mark. They offered 15x face for the 90% silver. Silver today is $32.54/ounce.
It was set up in a hotel room, and when I walked in I asked them were the "coin show" was. They said they didn't have anything to sell, where only buying. I told them it was advertised as a coin show, and that usually at coin shows you can buy coins. Anyways, I let then give me an offer on what I brought. I brought a ziploc bag of 90% silver, along with some circulated Morgans/Peace Dollars. I did throw in a circulated 1882-CC Morgan in VG. They offered $15 each for the Morgan/Peace Dollars. They didn't catch the CC-Morgan; I watched and the kid doing it never flipped it over to check for a mint mark. They offered 15x face for the 90% silver. Silver today is $32.54/ounce.
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- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
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New approach, same old song.
I played dumb, and asked them where all the coins for sale were. When they said they only buy, I replied by saying all the other coin shows I have ever been to have had dealers set up at tables selling coins. They replied back that they only buy - never sell.
I was actually surprised that they offered 15x face value for 90% silver. The last time the hotel buyers were in town they were paying 8-12x face. I did keep all my coins and told them I would need to "think" about their offer.
Yes, I don't like the fact they are calling them "coin shows" now.
Just rereading their newspaper ad, and it actually says "......wheat back penny from the 1960's are worth only a few cents."
Lance.
<< <i>Advertising it as a "Coin Show" is new, and a disturbing trend. It will give real coins shows a bad name. >>
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I passed.
A local B&M dealer I know and have worked with for years looked at the same items on the same day. His sell prices are very reasonable (thus his buy prices are low). He told me that if I wanted to sell, he would purchase the items for between $8,000.00 and $9,000.00.
These hotel buyers will never have me as a customer, however they must do very well with their business model. Most of their customers probably do not know and do not care to put in the time and effort to know what their coins are worth. They just want an easy transaction where they show up, hand over their coins and get a check or cash. No muss, no fuss.
What would be interesting to me would be working with the hotel buyers on the inventory and resale side. I suspect that their are some people working for the buyers that have a knowledge of the hobby sufficient to enable them to look through the coins that are purchased from the customers and pull out the ones that have significant "numismatic value" and set them aside. The dross, dreck and widgets probably gets blown out to a volume wholesaler or sent to a smelter.
I wonder what the buyers do with the coins that come in the door that have significant numismatic value. Does anyone know?
Of course they did not catch the mint mark. They would look for that after you were gone. Like a used car dealer who finds a diamond ring under the seat while checking out a car you are selling. Maybe that would be a good way to get top dollar for a clunker. Just stick a cubic zirconium ring under the seat. I need to remember that next time.
<< <i>Of course they did not catch the mint mark. They would look for that after you were gone. >>
I wonder if it was dated 1895 if they would check for the mm
It's not 'good', but still, for a hotel buyer, it's not that bad.
What's worse I suppose, is not checking for rare dates and mintmarks.
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<< <i>I'm not defending these guys but 15X face is not a rip-off.
It's not 'good', but still, for a hotel buyer, it's not that bad.
What's worse I suppose, is not checking for rare dates and mintmarks. >>
I guess not but I was at one of the local coin shops I deal with yesterday and he quoted $21.50/dollar on the phone to a potential seller while I was paying $23/dollar for BU OBW rolls of Washington Quarters that he had in the case ( I gotta get in that shop more often).
There seen to be laws against many of the things they do but their propensity to rip old people should trigger some sort of action.
<< <i>It's amazing. These people should be in jail.
There seen to be laws against many of the things they do but their propensity to rip old people should trigger some sort of action. >>
You know at some point we have to be responsible for our own actions and decisions. Free people have to educate themselves and learn to be wise to rip offs; friends and family should step in to help as needed. If the action is more big brother government, I have had my fill of that. Most laws we enact to protect the ignorant from themselves puts our own freedom in a smaller box. I think I will make that my new sig line.
jim
<< <i>Last time they were here, they were actually paying 16x face, but would not tell you if you had a rare date or even better date. A customer took a few better dated coins down and they purposely missed the mintmarks. They play dumb when buying better dated coins, but in actuality, they know, maybe not each of the associates they have at the table, but somebody an arms lenght away does. One of my customers who knows one of the guys that travels on the team, told him they check everything before its processed out of there possesion. The time before last, another customer took an 09-s vdb down there in ch unc, they said" oh its a vdb, and offered 20 bucks, my customer said " thats an s -vdb , they said, "oh there is an s , how about that, then offered 500.00 .
jim >>
They probably figure that one in ten got their coins from grandpa in an inheritance and would not know one old coin from another. The ignorant seller might think the value of a coin is simply based on how old it is. THat is pay dirt for low lifes.
<< <i> "......wheat back penny from the 1960's are worth only a few cents." >>
I would think wheaties from the 1960s would be worth a whole lot more than a few cents.
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Don
<< <i>The company was Ohio Valley Gold & Silver Refinery.
This company operates from four separate motel locations in this area of the Ohio Valley. They operate on a daily basis and have done so for several consecutive years.
See alternate business names at the bottom of page: BBB Review For THR & Associates
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I'm reminded of the line... a fool and his money soon part.
It makes little difference to me that there are guys in a hotel... or the guys on tv with the slick commercials selling gold "at 0% over dealers cost"...
or even the guys on tv selling gold for $3200 an ounce... or the guys selling "gold buffalos (plated) at fractions of what the real ones sell for"... they are all, imho, frauds selling to uninformed "fools".
It is a shame, but until someone (read government) makes a law to make this criminal... all we are doing is whining about it.
Steve
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Right all we need - more restrictions. As soon as you get laws trying to stop hotel buyers, you end up with laws that ban all coin shows.
<< <i>It is a shame, but until someone (read government) makes a law to make this criminal... all we are doing is whining about it. >>
Make what criminal? Offering prices that somebody else thinks are too low? I'm not sure having to have government approval before you can buy or sell things without the threat of imprisonment is a good idea. But then, that's just me...
Antique Roadshow and don't realize that a lot of the people they have doing their appraisals know very little about coins or antiques.
Coin appraisal sessions turn into cash for some local sellers
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One of the hotels that they frequent is Holiday Inn out on I 95 , my wife and i eat at the cracker barrel next door a few times a week . I have seen them in there at breakfast time before they open up and they were wearing THR logo shirts. At the time I did not know what that meant, becuase the add said one of the other company names, but I do now.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>It's amazing. These people should be in jail.
There seen to be laws against many of the things they do but their propensity to rip old people should trigger some sort of action. >>
You know at some point we have to be responsible for our own actions and decisions. Free people have to educate themselves and learn to be wise to rip offs; friends and family should step in to help as needed. If the action is more big brother government, I have had my fill of that. Most laws we enact to protect the ignorant from themselves puts our own freedom in a smaller box. I think I will make that my new sig line. >>
Yes. Obviously.
But this doesn't seem to stop them from passing law after law after law to regulate and impede local business so
why do fly by nighters not have to obey the same laws? Why are they allowed to prey on the elderly who are sup-
posed to be protected by law from unscrupulous and dishonest financial transactions.
I suppose if banks are allowed to loan money at 25% and pay .25% then nothing else can be much illegal.
Frankly the coin shops probably should just take out a full page ad right next to it warning people. But the news-
papers are in on it and run stories lauding the buyers. The hotels love the business and the exposure. No one cares
if a lot of old foggies sell their jewelry and possesions for a fraction of their value. The newspaper might not be even
willing to run an ad warning of the low prices paid.
There are tens of thousands of local, state, and federal laws against many of the things some of these guys are doing.
But no one seems to care except the coin dealers who often pay a fair price. They advertise to pay high prices and
odds are that not one single hotel buyer anywhere actually does. Anecdotal stories seem to suggest that at best one
will get 60% of fair value and often much less. Proving this should be more than sufficient to shut them down.
<< <i>Most of the "hotel buyers" are under one company out of Springfield, IL operating under different names.
See alternate business names at the bottom of page: BBB Review For THR & Associates >>
Thanks for the info.
your right, the newspaper adds will not let you mess with the big add payers, they either bury your add further back in a section no body reads, or they massage your wording so that you cannont state negative things about them. For example I can say in my add " check our prices before you sell to them, but they would not let me say " Motel buyers are scammers or rip the public off"
i got a kick out of the BBB review stating that sellers were contacting the company expressing buyers remorse and they counter re-plied saying company uses several sources as means to make offers
Sellers basically finding out after the fact they got thier arse reemed..
Coming to a hotel near you
or better yet just put a poster on the back of your car...paying 20x times here...parked strategically of course
<< <i>Anecdotal stories seem to suggest that at best one will get 60% of fair value and often much less. Proving this should be more than sufficient to shut them down. >>
Do you think having the government determining acceptable buy and sell prices is a good idea?
<< <i>shoulda told kool on the 15x as you've been buying um in the parking lot for 10x without having to advertise...
or better yet just put a poster on the back of your car...paying 20x times here...parked strategically of course >>
Real competition is always the best way to keep prices true and just.
<< <i>
<< <i>It is a shame, but until someone (read government) makes a law to make this criminal... all we are doing is whining about it. >>
Make what criminal? Offering prices that somebody else thinks are too low? I'm not sure having to have government approval before you can buy or sell things without the threat of imprisonment is a good idea. But then, that's just me... >>
Agreed. Free market. People should try to educate themselves.
<< <i>
<< <i>Anecdotal stories seem to suggest that at best one will get 60% of fair value and often much less. Proving this should be more than sufficient to shut them down. >>
Do you think having the government determining acceptable buy and sell prices is a good idea? >>
Advertising that you pay highest prices when it's a lie is against numerous laws.
The government already has literally millions of laws on the books. I don't approve
of every single one of them but it seems a few can be dusted off to stop the worst
of the violators.
This is the bedrock idea of civilization. Of course now days if you steal enough money
it's not illegal at all. It seems this threshold just keeps getting less and less.
<< <i>Advertising that you pay highest prices when it's a lie is against numerous laws. >>
If you're going after advertising puffery, I predict that you're going to be very busy. What's next? Retailers who say "Our prices are the lowest in town?"
edited to add... fresh from today's mail, a supermarket ad claiming "Best beef in town" and a satellite tv provider claiming "Unbeatable new offer". I bet an argument could easily be made that neither of these claims is true. Lawsuit, anyone?
Problem is there are so many business/scams out there claiming all kinds of falsehoods that it would be a full time job for a huge department of investigators/prosecutors to keep up with it. I see hucksters on tv all the time that I believe are filled with deception and flat out falsehoods. These fly-by-night operations in hotels know that they are too hard of a target to go after so they fly under the radar. I feel that somehow education is the best defense against them but no matter there are always plenty out there running as fast as they can to be victims. Just makes you shake your head. The way of the world since the beginning of time.