San Francisco Mint MS70 Silver American Eagle

NCmoney · April 5, 2012 5:05AM

I am getting an ANACS MS70 2012 Silver American Eagle Initial Release from the San Francisco Mint here in about a week. It sounds pretty interesting. It is estimated that less than 10% of the total number of 2012 Silver Eagles will be produced at the San Francisco Mint. Considerably fewer will be certified, and only a small fraction of the certified coins will be graded MS70. I already have a few MS70 Silver Eagles, but this one sounds extra special.

I heard that they stopped making Silver Eagles at SF Mint and just recently began minting them again.

pmac · April 5, 2012 5:49AM

Unfortunately, anything but PCGS MS70 is not 70. Even those from ATS will seldom crossover. Check out the sales of modern 70s from Heritage and see what gets top price, very consistant. from another "Kool-Aid Drinker"
BTW

barrytrot · April 5, 2012 5:55AM

Also the percentage that will grade 70 is quite high. Much higher than "a small percentage".

And the reason that most are not graded is that it raises the value so little. Generally the grading fees are higher than the amount of value added. Especially if it is not PCGS. Then you are probably better off with "raw" instead.

123cents · April 5, 2012 6:01AM

Hope you enjoy your coin and hope you didn't overpay for it.

19Lyds · April 5, 2012 6:10AM

<< I am getting an ANACS MS70 2012 Silver American Eagle Initial Release from the San Francisco Mint here in about a week. It sounds pretty interesting. It is estimated that less than 10% of the total number of 2012 Silver Eagles will be produced at the San Francisco Mint. Considerably fewer will be certified, and only a small fraction of the certified coins will be graded MS70. I already have a few MS70 Silver Eagles, but this one sounds extra special.

I heard that they stopped making Silver Eagles at SF Mint and just recently began minting them again. >>

It sounds like you are repeating information you've heard on some TV Coin Show.

There certainly is nothing special about Silver Eagles produced at the San Francisco Facility. They have no mintmarks, are identical to the West Point Bullion coins and are always submitted 500 at a time. Most often as Early Release/First Strike/Initial Release or some other eye catching label.

The number produced from the San Francisco Facility really has no bearing on the pieces they produce other than some imaginary market created by the TV Hucksters. Crack the coin out of the plastic and its just another silver eagle thats indistinguishable from its West Point counterparts.

To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages.

CyStater · April 5, 2012 6:43AM

edited.
don't want to scare you away from collecting.
Welcome, read a lot and buy judiciously.

MikeInFL · April 5, 2012 6:44AM

<< Hope you enjoy your coin and hope you didn't overpay for it. >>

Well, that's certainly the nice way to put it.

Coinflip · April 5, 2012 6:46AM

To each his own. Some could say the same about many coins. Look at The 2008W silver eagles with reverse 07s. Everybody was probably like so what, then BOOM transitional variety was found and now it is one of the most sought after Silver eagles in the series. People that don't even collect eagles don't mind getting their hands on it. People collect what they want to collect and nobody knows what the future holds.A newsflash totally degrading PCGS 70 slabs could hit the coin market tomorrow. There could be a big variety found on the coin in question and the OP will have the last laugh, as the rest of us are here holding our normal PCGS slabs because we jumped on that bandwagon. And IMO Sanfrancisco mint coins have been found to be diferent seeing multiple threads about a diferent tail feather on the reverse dies

19Lyds · April 5, 2012 6:56AM

<< To each his own. Some could say the same about many coins. Look at The 2008W silver eagles with reverse 07s. Everybody was probably like so what, then BOOM transitional variety was found and now it is one of the most sought after Silver eagles in the series. People that don't even collect eagles don't mind getting their hands on it. >>

You are comparing an actual coin to a marketing label friend.

There is a difference.

<< And IMO Sanfrancisco mint coins have been found to be diferent seeing multiple threads about a diferent tail feather on the reverse dies >>

I do not recall this ever panning out and as such, don't give it any attention at all. Besides, that subject matter was with regard to the 2011 Anniversary Sets where the "no mint mark" coin was in fact a special run of SAE's.

INXS · April 5, 2012 6:57AM

I hope you didn't get this coin thru a "tele" marketer. Your description sounds like "Coin Collector" ANACS MS70, intial release.....etc and all of his verbiage that goes along with it.

Welcome

ricko · April 5, 2012 7:19AM

Welcome aboard NCmoney... hope you like your new coin... Cheers, RickO

19Lyds · April 5, 2012 7:23AM

I think its best to view these coins kinda like we view "new cars". New Cars depreciate in value as soon as you drive them off the showroom floor. Likewise, paying premium prices for "this years" Silver Eagles usually always amounts to a certain level of depreciation.

A couple but certainly not every one of them "may" appreciate in value over time. For example, I'm ever so glad that I did not purchase that 1982 Chrysler Le Baron but will always regret the day I sold my 1966 Mustang.

Make sense?

Coinflip · April 5, 2012 8:01AM

The subject matter was the fact that you stated "S" mint coins were indistinguishable etc to the other counterparts in the series and I have concerns about those statements. Furthermore this thread is revolving around a discussion of the TPG labels

Coinflip · April 5, 2012 8:12AM

<< To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages. >>

Wrong, the 25th set has a DDO from the SanFranciso coin , this is also a low mintage

NCmoney · April 6, 2012 4:38AM

I will remember that PCGS is the better choice when it comes to numismatic value. I normally always have the choice between ANACS, PCGS, and NGC, all for around the same price. They are all the top 3 coin grading companies, so it can't be too bad. ANACS is the longest standing of them all.

I basically just read a newsletter on the coin, it wasn't from TV or anything. That is where I got the information about the minting and such. I was going to attach it too this forum post, but it wouldn't let me attach a pdf. No big deal.

As far the percentage that grades MS70. Yeah, you are right. Especially on Silver Eagles. The percentage for most international mints is usually less than 10% that grade MS70. However the Silver Eagle has a higher percentile of MS70 because it is soo popular worldwide. The market for numismatics is $100 billion internationally.

lcoopie · April 6, 2012 4:40AM

unfortunately, I fear you may be unhappy with your purchase

what did you pay?

johnrav · April 6, 2012 4:47AM

/Spam

BigA · April 6, 2012 5:33AM

<< 

<< To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages. >>

Wrong, the 25th set has a DDO from the SanFranciso coin , this is also a low mintage >>

I would comment that an outlier (DDO) does not make ALL the bullion ASE's from San Fran different from their West Point counterparts. They all (well 99.99%) look the same and, without the TPG label, are indistinguishable from each other.

19Lyds · April 6, 2012 5:55AM

<< 

<< To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages. >>

Wrong, the 25th set has a DDO from the SanFranciso coin , this is also a low mintage >>

Isn't that the 2011-S. You know, the one with the "S" Mintmark?

19Lyds · April 6, 2012 6:01AM

<< I basically just read a newsletter on the coin, it wasn't from TV or anything. That is where I got the information about the minting and such. >>

From "where", did the newsletter originate?

MsMorrisine · April 6, 2012 6:11AM

adding to the talk of the label:

it is a valid label.

drop that holder on the floor, have it crack open, and you won't get that thing back into a "Minted in San Francisco" holder. No one has found any way yo distinguish these coins from the W coins.

If someone ever does, then the prices for them will be a lot higher than current auction prices.

Right now they are a "label" variety only. Not a true variety. A true variety like the Rev 07 or the DDO has distinguishing characteristics on the coins.
This is more akin to collecting "First Strike" labels. (which I do).

Maybe in 50 years the label will mean something.

Then again, maybe not.

If the Mint continues to mint from both S and W without mint marks, then it will just a matter of "label" varities then, too, and likely not much more of a big deal than it is now.

Your best bet to capitalize on the "label" variety is to either have the mint stop minting in S or have them start using mint marks.

Tassa · April 6, 2012 8:02AM

Ah...a Numis Network guy.

morgansforever · April 6, 2012 8:15AM

I see no reason to puchase MS70 bullion rounds, except for maybe registry guys.
Got caught up in it a few years back, n learned my lesson.(milk spots, tv huckster hype)
RP ASE I'll give ya some slack, otherwise just buy 69's if you must buy slabbed.
Stick with PCGS, or just buy a tube, JMHO.

Coinflip · April 6, 2012 2:37PM

<< 

<< 

<< To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages. >>

Wrong, the 25th set has a DDO from the SanFranciso coin , this is also a low mintage >>

Isn't that the 2011-S. You know, the one with the "S" Mintmark? >>

No, It is not

MsMorrisine · April 6, 2012 2:48PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< To put it into simple terms, until the San Fransisco SAE's start getting S Mint marks, they'll never have much value over the West Point produced bullion regardless of mintages. >>

Wrong, the 25th set has a DDO from the SanFranciso coin , this is also a low mintage >>

Isn't that the 2011-S. You know, the one with the "S" Mintmark? >>

No, It is not >>

either way, it's still a DDO and a true variety vs. the "label variety."

I still agree with the original premise. Until the SF coins can be differentiated from the W coins besides what's on the label, there won't be nearly the premium as if they had a mint mark, or some other "on coin" diagnostic, with the same much lower mintage.

That said, I fully trust PCGS, NGC, ANACS with their label certification. You'll have a SF coin if you have it with the right label. There will be people interested in the label. There would be a lot more interest in a coin with a distiguishing diagnostic.

Coinflip · April 6, 2012 4:18PM

Trick is to get the variety with a good label, The fact that I collect the DDO from the set and it is from SF... Its a plus. Although technically I would have rather, had it be from WP anyhow, because it would have been burnished ,meaning probably less of them per die= more value and collect-ability (from a variety standpoint) I am a variety guy. I have little interest in normal coins, no matter what grade or what label. But the DDO is on the SF coin, so it will technically have more value over its counterparts with an S, and guys will be saying "aw man you got the SF coin ? the no mintmark one out of the special set? the one with the DDO? Let me take a look at that! as opposed to , oh yeah the special strike coin from sanfranciso , oh yeah great, looks great.

magikbilly · April 6, 2012 5:31PM

<>

Really. Well, someone is getting happy somewhere if you are indeed willing to paying the same money for these very different goods, but it may not be you about 2/3 of the time.

Best wishes,
Eric

joeykoins · April 6, 2012 9:56PM

Great choice in collecting the Silver Eagle! I think this is the series, to watch closely. Most collectors have these in their inventory. Don't be surprised the government puts stoppers on these.( just thinking out loud) Welcome aboard!

jmski52 · April 6, 2012 10:06PM

I'm an advocate of "collecting what you like", and I wish you well in your pursuits.

mikeyg · April 7, 2012 1:21PM

Nathan,enjoy your coin and welcome to the forum.My own recent collecting started with the 2008 pf SAE NGC pf 70 and from there I have moved on to pcgs and ngc collections of 70 SAEs.They sit on my coin desk side by side.Just my opinion,if you can get your choice of the three third party grading services at the same price or close to it I would go for the pcgs everytime as they seem to hold more value.

NCmoney · April 9, 2012 1:15AM

Thanks guys, there are some thought provoking opionions on here. NGC and PCGS definately have the best, most durable slabs. My grandpa has purchased a few coins off of ebay, unfortunately with cracks and chips in the slab. We don't buy from ebay any longer because of counterfeits and cracked slabs. We learned our lesson. I payed $120 for this coin through a reputable dealer. I have done some hunting around on other reputable shopping sites, and it ran about $140 on those sites. I am sure it won't run less than $115 most other places.

BigA · April 9, 2012 1:35AM

If you are patient there are a few nice prices out there....

MS70 (S)

MS70 (S) #2

Nice box

PCGS FS

drfish · April 9, 2012 2:12AM

Nathan hang onto your cash and keep an eye on these boards. The mint may produce some collectible SAEs in special finishes or with unique mint marks for 2012. If that happens buy as many as you can directly from the mint ,they will be a good investment. If the mint sells a special set of SAEs camp on your computer at their release as they will likely sell out in hours. PCGS SAEs do bring a premium but have more issues with spottting. NGC is a good second choice. The other grading companies carry a much lower premium.

NCmoney · April 9, 2012 7:45AM

Like, I said before. I don't buy from ebay. Been jipped too many times.

BigA · April 9, 2012 11:15PM

<< Like, I said before. I don't buy from ebay. Been jipped too many times. >>

Ahhhh...ok....whatever. How about one of the better coin dealers in the country...Modern Coin Mart..great products and service (and they price match any recognized dealer)

PCGS FS

NGC ER

Just sayin'......

edit: oops...forgot to repeat a comment from an above post:

<< Nathan hang onto your cash and keep an eye on these boards. >>

NCmoney · April 10, 2012 2:57AM

Touche. It looks like you found a great deal from a reputable dealer. The prices I have paid for my last 4 MS70 Silver Eagles have been:

1. $75
2. $99
3. $99
4. $120

Yeah, so at least I got mine at a competitive price, from a reputable dealer. I wonder if MCM sells that coin at a loss. I heard from some reviews, that it's what they do. The company I buy from is really into numismatic education as well though, not just being the best prices, but that is good too. They send me an educational newsletter w/ comics & games and such for the kids to enjoy. It talks about the history, artistry, the mint, the series, etc. Makes collecting all the more enjoyable for me and my family.

The word commodity is the most deadly the world of business. "differentiate or die."

Coinflip · April 10, 2012 4:31AM

<< The company I buy from is really into numismatic education as well though, not just being the best prices, but that is good too. They send me an educational newsletter w/ comics & games and such for the kids to enjoy. >>

What site is that, could use a few more laughs

NCmoney · April 10, 2012 4:39AM

I have the shopping page for the company on my e-signature here. You can check it out there. It is the only place in the forum posts I am allowed to post my affiliated websites anyway.

BigA · April 10, 2012 5:56AM

Hmmm....so under "contact" I see your mug...looks like you are directly affiliated with this company and covertly trying to spam this forum....correct me if I am wrong

Probably not a good idea to promote a company that is mostly ANACS stuff on a PCGS forum....

johnrav · April 10, 2012 6:04AM

<< /Spam >>

as I said quite a few days ago...

NCmoney · April 10, 2012 6:20AM

E-signatures are not considered spamming. They are exactly what they are, e-signatures. Adding value to the forum is my #1 priority here. I am allowed to put whatever links I want in the e-signature. Many of you put your own personal listing in the e-signature too, which is the same type of thing. PCGS and my affiliate company deal directly with one another. If they have issues, that is their business, not mine. But they don't.

If you aren't familiar with PCGS's forum rules here they are:

Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules this is not a democracy.

Rule 2) Anyone posting crude or vulgar pictures or language will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Rule 5) If you have nothing to contribute to an OP then do not post. Snide remarks and other negative comments will result in your losing your ability to post. No more warnings.

Rule 6) This forum is about US Coins. If your post is not directly related to US Coins then this is the wrong forum. Do not post it or your posting privileges may be removed.

Rule 7) This is a PCGS forum. Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or service are not allowed. Those posts will be removed and your posting privileges may be removed as well.

Rule 8) This forum is provided for the education and sharing of information. Not as a personal soapbox. If you want to learn and share information about US Coins you are welcome.

Rule 9) Your signature may contain multiple images and/or links but must be limited to a single line. If you would like additional advertising space on this site please contact our Advertising Department. Violators will have their posting privileges removed.

Rule 10) If you don't like any of the rules outlined above see Rule 1

MsMorrisine · April 10, 2012 6:25AM

<< 

<< /Spam >>

as I said quite a few days ago... >>

your welcome mat will quickly be rolled up and taken away if you spam about buying XXX from some company, and then mention that "some company" is the same as you are affiliated with.

you would have been fine if you just kept your sig. line as is and stayed away from posting "I'm buying MS70 (S) coins from (my affiliated site)"

you could have simply stated you are 1. new 2. a collector, and 3. have some MS70 (S) in ANACS, and and 4. had your sig. line. if people asked or figured out where you bought them on their own, so be it. Telling everyone on your own where is spam of your own affliated site.

booooooooooo

the issue is "I'm buying coins from ..... and it turns out to be your affliated site"
you should have left that out. let the sig. line speak for itself. AND no spamming is basically a "Term of Service" for service providers of all sorts everywhere. It's often not in "forum rules" but "site terms & conditions." PS: spam falls under "other forms of advertising," it is prohibited but not specifically outlined in the rules. This particular one is multiple lines of "I'm buying from my affiliated site" in posts that are outside of the sig. line.

BigA · April 10, 2012 6:41AM

<< 

<< /Spam >>

as I said quite a few days ago... >>

I saw that but it didn't click....good pickup....

NCmoney · April 10, 2012 6:48AM

I was asked two different times from whom I got my coins/newsletters. So I answered their questions. When somebody asks me a question, they have given permission for me to answer their question. When I have been given permission, it's not spam.

MsMorrisine · April 10, 2012 7:05AM

<< I was asked two different times from whom I got my coins/newsletters. So I answered their questions. When somebody asks me a question, they have given permission for me to answer their question. When I have been given permission, it's not spam. >>

OK, I'll give you that correction on me.

MsMorrisine · April 10, 2012 7:08AM

I basically just read a newsletter on the coin, it wasn't from TV or anything. That is where I got the information about the minting and such. I was going to attach it too this forum post, but it wouldn't let me attach a pdf. No big deal.

Yeah, so at least I got mine at a competitive price, from a reputable dealer.

=========================================

True they were not mentioned by name or link in the post.

(We are a bit edgy with the new people, as you can see. Plus we've had a few who did blantantly provide links to their own sites without disclosing the affiliation, until they slipped later.)

M · April 10, 2012 7:11AM

Come on Nathan, you don't need to post the forum rules, just quit being defensive would help. I was really enjoying your thread as it brought out opinions about the coins/labels. I just started collecting silver eagles with the 25th anniversary set and recently purchased some 2012 PCGS 69 slabbed bullion coins and some 2012 S Struck at San Francisco PCGS 69 coins. The latter are superior in quality to my untrained eye, at least no spots. Is this just a fluke or a real difference in quality?

19Lyds · April 10, 2012 7:42AM

<< I was asked two different times from whom I got my coins/newsletters. So I answered their questions. When somebody asks me a question, they have given permission for me to answer their question. When I have been given permission, it's not spam. >>

Hmmm. The way it was originally worded sounded as if you were referring to someone other than yourself which is why I asked.

mikeyg · April 10, 2012 10:52AM

In the beginning,this thread seemed to be a new collector asking for advice,but it quickly turned to something else.Nothing to see here.

MsMorrisine · April 10, 2012 11:10AM

<< In the beginning,this thread seemed to be a new collector asking for advice,but it quickly turned to something else.Nothing to see here.

>>

we can go back to seeking advice!

My advice would be to, despite the aversion to eBay, check auction prices on eBay for an idea of what to pay for these things in the "Big 3" holders.

The pricing will tell the story of relative value of the three graders in the marketplace.

======

I am too busy to check right now.... (posting as an occasional "breather") ... can these things be found on TeleTrade???

Buzzybest · April 10, 2012 12:15PM

<< I have the shopping page for the company on my e-signature here. You can check it out there. It is the only place in the forum posts I am allowed to post my affiliated websites anyway. >>

This is total spam and I hope the moderator sees this anytime soon!!

San Francisco Mint MS70 Silver American Eagle

Comments

Leave a Comment