I'll be dust in the ground by the time the cards I love (which are currently worth a great deal), become worthless due to "industry collapse."
Also, any discussion needs to avoid a moving target when it comes to the word "industry." Are we talking about the collecting of Pre-War to 1970's HOFers in high grade, or are we talking about card companies currently pumping out product? The card companies can all stop printing right now, and for decades to come the prices for seminal cards in high grade will be robust.
Again, I am not a modern collector, but I find it hard to reconcile a current modern card industry (and by that to say current manufacturers) collapse with:
1. Modern cards selling for five digits routinely. 2. Kids being able to afford and collect; they can spend 60 bucks a pop on COD MW3, they can and do drop $5 on a pack to get a potentially valuable and rare card of their favorite player.
In the end, if we're talking about a collapse of the industry meaning a collapse of Pre-War to say 1970s high grade cards, in my opinion that's an asinine assertion. Especially when touting specious evidence like brick and mortar store decline, show attendance decline, and a bunch of worthless cards from a low period, which any industry endures.
In forty years from now, when some collectors of great older cards have died, and others like me are on their way out of this life, cards like the 52 Mantle will still be looked at as treasures, as pieces of history, or to some even as pop art. Premium pieces such as key HOF RCs in high grade will still then hold value.
And if I'm wrong, great. (A), I'll be dead . (B) I'll be alive and can spend my last years buying up everything. And (C) my son will love them and be able to buy them all on the cheap.
I for one would have no problem with say a Babe Ruth RC suddenly collapsing so I can buy it for the price of a 1991 Fleer Set. Bring on the collapse.
What many don't envision who hazard such dire prognostications is this: anything that once held such value, if it ever does experience a steep and sudden decline, will invite speculators who swoop in and try to control the supply of items that were once so valuable. This will likely invite more such speculators. That buying activity will then re-stabilize the market.
But again, I'll care little about this in 40+ years if it ever happens. I'll probably have way more serious issues to deal with, like imminent death and hanging with my grandkids.
What I think is that there are a lot of ill or partially informed tools out there. Lots of them work in the entertainment industry. And sadly most of what passes for news and journalism today is really just entertainment in masquerade. These content delivery platforms like TV stations and news programs need to keep pumping out stories to stay alive. For the same reason that news reports generally lead with a negative proposition (i.e., WHAT IN YOUR FRIDGE WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR KIDS TONIGHT? TUNE IN AT 11 TO FIND OUT!) the people behind this story were all to pleased to run with something that had sports in it, and "collapse."
Wish I had known it was airing. I would have invested in an advertisement stating I would gladly buy up those worthless vintage collections viewers have stored in the closet and I'd happily pay what Mr. Mint paid for them during the peak of the hobby.
I think some of us may be missing the point of the show. I don't think it implied that the icons of the hobby will decrease in value, but that the nuts and bolts of the hobby will. It made a compelling argument that since kids are not entering the hobby like they did in the past that sooner or later the hobby will suffer. Just because kids today can pay 4.00 for a pack of baseball cards does not mean that they will and are. Just because auctions and internet sales are booming today they will continue to do so. At least that was my take on this. I'm sure other opinions will and do vary.
I don't disagree, but that is a very reasonable interpretation of the special. If only the special itself was as level-headed.
Is there legitimate concern about the health of the current/modern card hobby? Sure-- in the sense that there may not be new kids entering the hobby at the rate of periods past (though that has yet to be quantified in an unassailable way), and in the sense that packs are rather pricey, and not as ubiquitous as they were when I grew up in the 80s, and packs could be had at each and every corner store.
But this news special painted with a very broad brush, and should have been more careful to parse and define its words/targets/subject. Instead, it bandied about terms like collapse and worthless in a very hyperbolic, histrionic manner-- but I guess what do we expect from entertainment-news these days, right?
Thanks to sportscardtheory for posting the clip; I missed it this morning as it was bumped off the DVR list for Phineas and Ferb.
This story really irks me. If the piece was about the booming sports collectibles market, all of us here would agree, and the information they would have presented could have helped breathe some new life into our industry/hobby. Showing the clip of the Tuesday night card show was ridiculous. The producers of this story are located in NYC, and heading across the river to Parsippany was just being lazy. Couldn't they have sat on this story a few months, then head down to Baltimore for the National to see how things really are? Seems like they already had their minds made up about what the state of the hobby was when deciding to do this story.
We won't even go into the people they interviewed. I'd like to hear the opinions of people who are considered relevant in this industry, and I didn't see any.
If you saw what goes on at the BBCE offices on any given day - it's surely not a sign of a declining industry.
Here it is for anyone who has yet to see it. It's pretty awful. They somehow fail to mention how the hobby is booming right now. They base their entire premise of "collapse" on a few people selling commons at a small garbage show and Mr. Mint, who clearly has an axe to grind with an industry that has outed him for the slimeball he is. The funniest part is when AK is looking at a pile of worthless cards and says something along the lines of "So these are all worthless now, huh?". Complete uniformed snuff piece made by people who have NO IDEA about the current state of a hobby that has pretty much been great even during a "recession". >>
The opening line of the piece says it all, "At the police athletic league youth center". Come on CBS don't you have a budget to send you to a bigger city? A bigger show? Along with not going into the internet card business I give the story a grade of altered, EOTR. Or Evidence of Terrible Reporting.
The Parsippany show that was highlighted is on a Tuesday night. It's the same dealers and how often can these guys turnover their inventory that it's worth it to me to go every week on a Tuesday night?
The piece didn't highlight that internet has paved the way for all of us to connect from all over the country and worldwide and not require us to attend local shows as much due to the the Internet having more people and more cards available.
I think it failed to potentially interview a few guys who seem to still profit from the Hobby, take any of the major dealers still in the hobby?
Perhaps Mr. Mint doesn't get as many calls because people can sell their cards themselves on the Internet?
Did anyone find it interesting they spend the 5 minutes telling you that the industry is dead and then end the piece saying that a T-206 Wagner sold for $2.8M?
Watch what Dimitri Young's collection goes for in SCP's auction next month. I bet the industry is in better shape than they portrayed it to be.
Buying 1957 Baseball PSA 8 or higher. Especially Checklists, and Contest Cards. Topps1957psa8set@aol.com
<< <i>Perhaps Mr. Mint doesn't get as many calls because people can sell their cards themselves on the Internet? >>
One of the best points made about this segment.
I picture Mr. Mint yelling at a wall about how it's so much harder nowadays to get vintage collections for pennies on the dollar due to people being more knowledgeable because of the internet.
A rather pathetic segment, short-sighted and basically a waste of time. Clearly no research was done to explore the vastness of the hobby. Shame on CBS for showing such a dismal portrayal of baseball card collecting.
We should go to the link on CBS and write our comments there!!!
I have twelve Sports Cards videos on youtube w/ over 75,000 views in total!! Vintage cards like 1951 Mantle, 33 Goudey Ruth, T206 Cobb, etc (copy and paste link below):
As long as we have sports in this country and stars in those sports the hobby will always be just fine!! they go hand & hand no matter what anybody says or will ever say, i've seen basically all the picks and valleys this hobby has ever had, and always a superstar came along to create that frenzie that would elevate the hobby to incredible hights and that's i why OUR HOBBY WILL NEVER DIE!!!!!!!!!!!! Jose
It would be interesting if someone took a show like The National and calculated the sales and money spent over the years to see if there has been any decline or increase in sales over that time.
One other aspect that permanently changed the hobby and card collecting is card grading, which was non-existent during the so-called hobby heyday. Back then, you had dealers selling NM cards as Mint and VG cards as NM and making tons of money off unsuspecting buyers. With the advent of third party grading, those dealers were ultimately forced to either adapt their sales practices or become obsolete. As you could see from that CBS segment, almost all the cards handled were raw and now worth a fraction of the "sticker price" because dealers can't get away with that stuff anymore.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> I have a friend that collects mostly 90s basketball inserts because that is the era that he grew up in and collected as a kid. He was buying 98 fleer tradition boxes for 60 each just days before last years national convention and now they are bringing 150-200 each!!!!! The same can be said for many many other 90's basketball boxes. >>
Please dont remind me of this..with the amount of 90's basketball inserts i once had!! haha
Also maybe if they had the cameras in white plains on Sat instead it would have been quite a different scene
<< <i>A rather pathetic segment, short-sighted and basically a waste of time. Clearly no research was done to explore the vastness of the hobby. Shame on CBS for showing such a dismal portrayal of baseball card collecting.
IOW, it sucked!!! >>
Great comment MCMLVTopps. The bigger problem here is that CBS et. al. produce this sort of garbage for almost every story they write. I don't trust anything they produce. Next time you watch a story produced by the big networks, think back to this one. You will view things differently.
I saw this and must say that I for one who has been collecting cards for sometime and have to disagree with what this program had to say. Today in the industry there are so many different collectors and ways to collect cards and buy them. I for one was always only interested in 70's and 80's OPC hockey and thought that the products of today were well a waste of time and money etc. I stuck my head in the sand and said todays kids will never understand the hobby and eventually it will die because of this. Then one day I was introduced to facebook and BlogTv and found a whole new world out there. Sure "kids" today do not go to card shops but there are so many different wasys to buy cards now. They do group breaks every night where a bunch of guys go in and buy boxes etc, now granted it is not cheap but most are in their teens etc. Some of the people hosting these are kids tryingto make a go of it. It has gone from set collecting to team, player, subset and patch collecting. No way is better than the other, but I for one do both now and love the hobby more and my kids love it too and areinterested more because of the different ways they can see things. When I would get some older graded cards in they weren't really all that excited, but when they started seeing me watching different breaks on y computer they loved it. Heck evenmy wife loves the hobby more and that is win/win for me. I can ramble on aimlessly for a long time on this. Long story short the industry is great and things always seem to have a correction and move on. NASDAQ is one of them.
without their heavily propagandized super-positive whirlwind of sound bites and quick pics for all to feed on, the frenzy will be significantly reduced, thereby eliminating the inherent fears of interlopers and cheaters invading the industry with overhyped junk designed to suck the life out of wallets, bank accounts and trust funds all over the world.
I tend to think there is some validity in what the program expressed but it was limited to a comparison of the way it was to what the perception is now. Those of us who collected 20 years ago remember the hysteria that was the "sports card" show. Both local and nationally, they were an event where many so-called collectors couldn't spend their money fast enough on over produced card sets and gimmick collectables. I can remember waiting in line for hours to get into a National and the biggest draw was inserts and free gift bags that were thought to be highly valuable. Now if you compare the show circuit then to what it is now, of course there is a big difference and it would appear if that is the only criteria you are using that the hobby is fading fast.
here's my perception:
- The vintage card market will continue to be solid due to condition and scarcity of many particular sets, cards, and players. - card grading has taken the hobby to a whole new level which has especially impacted the investment side. Cards can be bought and sold like stock and although you can still debate the worthiness of a grade, there is at least some level of security that what you are buying is safe. - card shows and card shops cannot compete with the internet and auctions for drawing potential buyers and this was not an issue 20 years ago. The internet has impacted almost every industry...much like the supermarket put the corner stores out of business. Times change and the entrepreneur who changes with it will succeed. - The late 1980's and early 1990's were crazy in the sportcard arena and to expect that period to sustain itself is totally nuts. The serious collectors are still here and hopefully will grow. - I go to major card shows hoping to find some items I need but mostly to view all the great cards and collectables that are always on display.
apparently many people saw this article as my friends have been spreading the doom and gloom asking my how things are going in the Hobby. They think I am lying when I say "it couldnt be better...unless you are trying to sell me your Gregg Jeffries rookies"
As long as the morning sun continues to rise each day, and the smell of freshly cut grass sweetens the air, and fluffy clouds shine white against the blue spring sky, there will somewhere be in this great country a small gathering of kids tossing amongst themselves leather covered balls, swinging finely shaped sticks of wood and dreaming about the baseball heroes of their time. Only when kids no longer have the capacity to dream will there be a collapse in the hobby.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
Comments
Also, any discussion needs to avoid a moving target when it comes to the word "industry." Are we talking about the collecting of Pre-War to 1970's HOFers in high grade, or are we talking about card companies currently pumping out product? The card companies can all stop printing right now, and for decades to come the prices for seminal cards in high grade will be robust.
Again, I am not a modern collector, but I find it hard to reconcile a current modern card industry (and by that to say current manufacturers) collapse with:
1. Modern cards selling for five digits routinely.
2. Kids being able to afford and collect; they can spend 60 bucks a pop on COD MW3, they can and do drop $5 on a pack to get a potentially valuable and rare card of their favorite player.
In the end, if we're talking about a collapse of the industry meaning a collapse of Pre-War to say 1970s high grade cards, in my opinion that's an asinine assertion. Especially when touting specious evidence like brick and mortar store decline, show attendance decline, and a bunch of worthless cards from a low period, which any industry endures.
In forty years from now, when some collectors of great older cards have died, and others like me are on their way out of this life, cards like the 52 Mantle will still be looked at as treasures, as pieces of history, or to some even as pop art. Premium pieces such as key HOF RCs in high grade will still then hold value.
And if I'm wrong, great. (A), I'll be dead . (B) I'll be alive and can spend my last years buying up everything. And (C) my son will love them and be able to buy them all on the cheap.
I for one would have no problem with say a Babe Ruth RC suddenly collapsing so I can buy it for the price of a 1991 Fleer Set. Bring on the collapse.
What many don't envision who hazard such dire prognostications is this: anything that once held such value, if it ever does experience a steep and sudden decline, will invite speculators who swoop in and try to control the supply of items that were once so valuable. This will likely invite more such speculators. That buying activity will then re-stabilize the market.
But again, I'll care little about this in 40+ years if it ever happens. I'll probably have way more serious issues to deal with, like imminent death and hanging with my grandkids.
What I think is that there are a lot of ill or partially informed tools out there. Lots of them work in the entertainment industry. And sadly most of what passes for news and journalism today is really just entertainment in masquerade. These content delivery platforms like TV stations and news programs need to keep pumping out stories to stay alive. For the same reason that news reports generally lead with a negative proposition (i.e., WHAT IN YOUR FRIDGE WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR KIDS TONIGHT? TUNE IN AT 11 TO FIND OUT!) the people behind this story were all to pleased to run with something that had sports in it, and "collapse."
the icons of the hobby will decrease in value, but that the nuts and bolts of the hobby will.
It made a compelling argument that since kids are not entering the hobby like they did
in the past that sooner or later the hobby will suffer. Just because kids today can pay
4.00 for a pack of baseball cards does not mean that they will and are. Just because auctions
and internet sales are booming today they will continue to do so. At least that was my take on this.
I'm sure other opinions will and do vary.
Just my humble opinion folks.
Is there legitimate concern about the health of the current/modern card hobby? Sure-- in the sense that there may not be new kids entering the hobby at the rate of periods past (though that has yet to be quantified in an unassailable way), and in the sense that packs are rather pricey, and not as ubiquitous as they were when I grew up in the 80s, and packs could be had at each and every corner store.
But this news special painted with a very broad brush, and should have been more careful to parse and define its words/targets/subject. Instead, it bandied about terms like collapse and worthless in a very hyperbolic, histrionic manner-- but I guess what do we expect from entertainment-news these days, right?
"Baseball cards never had any value"..not true, even when kids collected them they had a "value"
I guess you can tell the whole card market by a "tuesday night in Parsippany"
This story really irks me. If the piece was about the booming sports collectibles market, all of us here would agree, and the information they would have presented could have helped breathe some new life into our industry/hobby. Showing the clip of the Tuesday night card show was ridiculous. The producers of this story are located in NYC, and heading across the river to Parsippany was just being lazy. Couldn't they have sat on this story a few months, then head down to Baltimore for the National to see how things really are? Seems like they already had their minds made up about what the state of the hobby was when deciding to do this story.
We won't even go into the people they interviewed. I'd like to hear the opinions of people who are considered relevant in this industry, and I didn't see any.
If you saw what goes on at the BBCE offices on any given day - it's surely not a sign of a declining industry.
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
<< <i>http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403170n
Here it is for anyone who has yet to see it. It's pretty awful. They somehow fail to mention how the hobby is booming right now. They base their entire premise of "collapse" on a few people selling commons at a small garbage show and Mr. Mint, who clearly has an axe to grind with an industry that has outed him for the slimeball he is. The funniest part is when AK is looking at a pile of worthless cards and says something along the lines of "So these are all worthless now, huh?". Complete uniformed snuff piece made by people who have NO IDEA about the current state of a hobby that has pretty much been great even during a "recession". >>
Thanks for sharing the link.
The piece didn't highlight that internet has paved the way for all of us to connect from all over the country and worldwide and not require us to attend local shows as much due to the the Internet having more people and more cards available.
I think it failed to potentially interview a few guys who seem to still profit from the Hobby, take any of the major dealers still in the hobby?
Perhaps Mr. Mint doesn't get as many calls because people can sell their cards themselves on the Internet?
Did anyone find it interesting they spend the 5 minutes telling you that the industry is dead and then end the piece saying that a T-206 Wagner sold for $2.8M?
Watch what Dimitri Young's collection goes for in SCP's auction next month. I bet the industry is in better shape than they portrayed it to be.
<< <i>Perhaps Mr. Mint doesn't get as many calls because people can sell their cards themselves on the Internet? >>
One of the best points made about this segment.
I picture Mr. Mint yelling at a wall about how it's so much harder nowadays to get vintage collections for pennies on the dollar due to people being more knowledgeable because of the internet.
It would be nice to bookmark this thread and revisit it in 10 years.
See you March 25, 2022.
Mr. Mint shows us how it's done
Mr. Mint shows us how it's done, part 2
Mr. Mint shows us how it's done, part 3
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
IOW, it sucked!!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/dzolot
Thanks for watching. Hope you enjoyed!!
- I would encourage all collectors to post a video of their collection - I have found it to be a very rewarding way to share my sports cards!!
<< <i>I missed it this morning as it was bumped off the DVR list for Phineas and Ferb. >>
What wrong with Phineas and Ferb? It was probably written better than this CBS story was.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
i've seen basically all the picks and valleys this hobby has ever had, and always a superstar came along to create that frenzie that would elevate the hobby to incredible hights
and that's i why OUR HOBBY WILL NEVER DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jose
One other aspect that permanently changed the hobby and card collecting is card grading, which was non-existent during the so-called hobby heyday. Back then, you had dealers selling NM cards as Mint and VG cards as NM and making tons of money off unsuspecting buyers. With the advent of third party grading, those dealers were ultimately forced to either adapt their sales practices or become obsolete. As you could see from that CBS segment, almost all the cards handled were raw and now worth a fraction of the "sticker price" because dealers can't get away with that stuff anymore.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
cards falling down. Very effective!
<< <i> I have a friend that collects mostly 90s basketball inserts because that is the era that he grew up in and collected as a kid. He was buying 98 fleer tradition boxes for 60 each just days before last years national convention and now they are bringing 150-200 each!!!!! The same can be said for many many other 90's basketball boxes. >>
Please dont remind me of this..with the amount of 90's basketball inserts i once had!! haha
Also maybe if they had the cameras in white plains on Sat instead it would have been quite a different scene
<< <i>A rather pathetic segment, short-sighted and basically a waste of time. Clearly no research was done to explore the vastness of the hobby. Shame on CBS for showing such a dismal portrayal of baseball card collecting.
IOW, it sucked!!! >>
Great comment MCMLVTopps. The bigger problem here is that CBS et. al. produce this sort of garbage for almost every story they write. I don't trust anything they produce. Next time you watch a story produced by the big networks, think back to this one. You will view things differently.
Just my two cents
without their heavily propagandized super-positive whirlwind of sound bites and quick pics for all to feed on, the frenzy will be significantly reduced, thereby eliminating the inherent fears of interlopers and cheaters invading the industry with overhyped junk designed to suck the life out of wallets, bank accounts and trust funds all over the world.
oh. wait.
nevermind.
here's my perception:
- The vintage card market will continue to be solid due to condition and scarcity of many particular sets, cards, and players.
- card grading has taken the hobby to a whole new level which has especially impacted the investment side. Cards can be bought and sold like stock and although you can still debate the worthiness of a grade, there is at least some level of security that what you are buying is safe.
- card shows and card shops cannot compete with the internet and auctions for drawing potential buyers and this was not an issue 20 years ago. The internet has impacted almost every industry...much like the supermarket put the corner stores out of business. Times change and the entrepreneur who changes with it will succeed.
- The late 1980's and early 1990's were crazy in the sportcard arena and to expect that period to sustain itself is totally nuts. The serious collectors are still here and hopefully will grow.
- I go to major card shows hoping to find some items I need but mostly to view all the great cards and collectables that are always on display.
<< <i>Kids today are confused to what to buy with the various sets and various different grading companies. >>
with the current gaming mentality intact, i think a lot of kids aren't confused at all.
they just choose to ignore stuff they can't blow to smithereens.