True or false: Forgers always leave tell-tale evidence of their work.
Lakesammman
Posts: 17,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
Have been enjoying some old Numismatist magazines. This quote from 11/1967.
"There have always been wishful thinkers who believed that forgers always make enough mistakes in their work to permit detection.
In the past most products of forgery generally have left tell-tale evidence but a substantial number have escaped recognition."
In the past 45 years, has the ability to detect fakes (esp. TPG's) advanced faster than the forgers skills in making them??
"There have always been wishful thinkers who believed that forgers always make enough mistakes in their work to permit detection.
In the past most products of forgery generally have left tell-tale evidence but a substantial number have escaped recognition."
In the past 45 years, has the ability to detect fakes (esp. TPG's) advanced faster than the forgers skills in making them??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
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RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>The late Thomas Hoving (former director of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC) once noted that the really good fake paintings are still hanging on collectors' walls. The same is true of coins. I have seen at least a couple of dozen 18th-19th-century coins that left me queasy---I was sure that they were worked on, but couldn't figure out how. The TPGs no longer guarantee the color on coppers, for the simple reason that the coin docs have gotten too good in the recoloring game. >>
I thought that the reason they do not is due to the fact that “red” can/do change in the holders due outside forces.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>I don't know... until the forger of the 1959 Wheatback cent confessed it even had the Secret Service on the fence as to authenticity. >>
Are you thinking of Mark Hofman who claimed to have made it? I don't known if their is any evidence he did it other than he claimed to have made it. Either way, that is a fascinating coin.
Here is my Mark Hofmann original. For a guy who could counterfeit so many signatures and documents his regular handwriting is abysmal.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
The name is LEE!
Was there someone somewhere that was better or at least not as vain as Omega?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So I suppose the question is, can there be such a thing?
Lance.
I'm looking forward to reading the John Ford book - anyone know when it's coming out.
Scary how fakes could be made to appear legitimate if you have the right credentials.....or financial motives.
<< <i>True or false: Forgers always leave tell-tale evidence of their work. >>
FALSE!
I spoke with Karl Moulton a couple of weeks ago, and he said that additional information he is adding to his manuscript has meant that the projected publication date will be pushed back somewhat---he sounded like sometime this summer.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>
<< <i>True or false: Forgers always leave tell-tale evidence of their work. >>
FALSE! >>
Are you saying that it's possible there are some counterfeit coins in PCGS slabs?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>True or false: Forgers always leave tell-tale evidence of their work. >>
FALSE! >>
Are you saying that it's possible there are some counterfeit coins in PCGS slabs? >>
Has that ever happened BEFoRE?
Eric
Didn't the micro O $ take a long time to get recognized as fakes?
<< <i>On some fakes they might leave evidence but it might not get noticed for a long time.
Didn't the micro O $ take a long time to get recognized as fakes? >>
Exactly! you saw my tiny "o"
Eric
<< <i>Just the ones that have been identified.
Precisely. For all we know, most of the coins circulating in the rare coin market are all fake, and are impossible to detect.
Think about it. There are a lot of coins for which the number of dies shipped doesn't match the known number of die varieties.
There could have been some master craftsman guy in the 19th c. who could cut dies of the same quality as the Mint.
Now time to take off my conspiracy hat
Are you referring to the Clark Gruber $20?? Many were in TPG holders until Regulated found the famous "repeating mark".
The text is written and the first 625 pages are completely done!
With that said, I'm trying to keep it under 800 pages total (yes, I have some Bowers books on the shelf, so I know how heavy they get). Still putting the final segments together as of this writing.
Plans are to have this available before the 2012 ANA convention (but, we all know how plans can change). The lengthy wait will be immediately forgotten once the book comes out.
There's plenty of history contained in this work, much of it previously unknown; and it needs to be presented objectively. Trying to validate activity is difficult when you are dealing with one-of-kind fake items and forgeries; especially when several of these are now in the National Numismatic Collection housed at the Smithsonian Institution.
There are people still alive that have vested interests in the outcome. The background must be truthfully and respectfully presented, and most of us know how strong personalities can make things quite difficult.
Somewhat surprisingly, nobody has created any problems; and those involved have been extremely helpful. These are the leading experts that I'm talking about. Find out who, when the book comes out.
Announcements for when the "John J. Ford, Jr. and the Franklin Hoard" book will be available, will be in the weekely trade papers and in The Numismatist, etc.
So stay tuned...
BTW, Ford and Franklin were not forgers. Read the book to find out the sources.
Can't wait to start reading it.
If it's anything like Bowers California book, it might need to be 2 volumes......
<< <i>The best may never be detected..... Cheers, RickO >>
Then they become "authentic".
The article, written in 1967, was about the methods used to make fake coins, not the doctoring of existing coins.
<< <i>only the forger would recognize his own work. jmo ( its getting to good out there ) >>
How would he recognize his own fake coins unless he put some small marker on it? If he did mark his fakes, others would eventually discover the deception. Right?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
<< <i>The next issue of Longacre's Ledger will have a fake 1872 Indian Cent that got graded. It would have fooled most people. >>
I believe the operative phrase here is "most people"
Empty Nest Collection
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know... until the forger of the 1959 Wheatback cent confessed it even had the Secret Service on the fence as to authenticity. >>
Are you thinking of Mark Hofman who claimed to have made it? I don't known if their is any evidence he did it other than he claimed to have made it. Either way, that is a fascinating coin.
Here is my Mark Hofmann original. For a guy who could counterfeit so many signatures and documents his regular handwriting is abysmal.
Ive studies handwriting analysis and that is almost on par with those that were diagnosed with psychological disorders lol
RAD#306