At what point does 'original' become a problem?(update on coin)

nwcoast · February 29, 2012 4:59AM

So in digging through my collection and selecting the 'most original pre 1920' coin for another thread, i came across this coin which aside from some uncleaned ancients, is certainly 'very' original. And, as is often the case, photography and close inspection have brought to light some problems. I hadn't noticed the green corrosion until now!

So..... What do ya think?
Is this coin desirable?
How could one possibibly grade something like this?
How can luster be evaluated under a crust like this?
I know some would dip this sucker....
I know I'm going start with an acetone soak here.
Opinions welcome of course.... Thanks

Thought I'd follow up on this after some 'conservation' steps were taken here.
Soaked the coin in a mild ammonia/water solution which immediately took down most of this gunk. I was surprised at how quickly it fell off as when I've done this before, green stuff usually comes off leaving the toning behind. This was followed by an acetone soak and rinse.
Shared here for educational purposes friends:

CoinJunkie · February 29, 2012 5:03AM

At what point does 'original' become a problem?

When it crosses the threshold into 'environmental damage'.

lasvegasteddy · February 29, 2012 5:07AM

So..... What do ya think?....original is fine if care/proper storage was used
Is this coin desirable?....not to me...sorry
How could one possibibly grade something like this?.....i'd think most tpg's would genuine it as environmental damage
How can luster be evaluated under a crust like this?.....luster fades away during improper storage...there is no luster i see here
I know some would dip this sucker................................."dipping" would only make worse-worse....i wouldn't dip this
I know I'm going start with an acetone soak here..........there ya go.....maybe olive oil it for awhile(a long while) first

just my 2 cents

Meltdown · February 29, 2012 6:20AM

<< <i>At what point does 'original' become a problem?

When it crosses the threshold into 'environmental damage'. >>

That pretty much sums it up... Eye appeal is a huge factor to most of us also. I would say your dime is very nice under that crust.
It definitely needs some acetone to remove or at least stop the green gunk from spreading.

DorkGirl · February 29, 2012 6:28AM

I don't think the acetone will help, good luck.

PerryHall · February 29, 2012 6:35AM

<< <i>At what point does 'original' become a problem? >>

When the originality hurts the eye appeal of the coin, it becomes a problem. Ugly toning is a perfect example---if the coin isn't dipped, it will be very difficult to ever sell.

tightbudget · February 29, 2012 6:48AM

<< <i>At what point does 'original' become a problem?

When it crosses the threshold into 'environmental damage'. >>

That's a pretty good overall summary of my thoughts.

P.S. I don't think acetone will help much for your coin , unfortunately. Acetone is only good for removing organic contaminants and those blue spots appear to be corrosion.

lkeigwin · February 29, 2012 7:12AM

Looks like verdigris to me. I have had some luck removing it with Verdicare. Below are some before-and-afters. I've used it on silver too, with the same success. Sorry, no pix of silver.

Sometimes it's so old and stubborn it won't come off. Usually it has corroded into the coin. Best to give up.
Lance.

nwcoast · February 29, 2012 3:21PM

Thank you all for the great and informative responses.
I really like that very concise answer of...
(when it crosses the threshold of 'environmental damage')

I hadn't thought of olive oil though that's a commonly used method for ancients.
Verdicare is worth consideration as well.

This coin was part of a collection which had been buried underground for almost 50 years. Many of the coins remained dry and out of the dirt but some did find their way out of the containers and into the soil and elements. Fortunately they were under a house so didn't get rained on year after year. When I first came into this collection, i had a crash course in coin first aid/conservation. This one slipped through the cracks as i focused on the larger coins with bigger problems.

Perhaps i'll post some follow up photos if there is a significant improvement.
Cheers and thanks for the information and feedback.

ricko · February 29, 2012 11:49PM

I agree with the acetone and olive oil.. I would use the acetone first though....
Sure sounds like an interesting story behind that coin - 'buried under a house'?.... Any further details to the story??
Cheers, RickO

Sonorandesertrat · March 1, 2012 12:04AM

When the toning has negative eye appeal, it can be a problem for some collectors like me and particularly prompt the grading services to silently net grade the coin. PCGS has posted a grading set of toned coins to illustrate how toning cann affect the assigned grade (positively or negatively). Heavy toning can diminish the luster on a mint state coin, causing a downgrade for reduced luster. This will happen before heavy toning has become so impacted that it is deemed environmental damage.

roadrunner · March 1, 2012 12:09AM

I've had clean ammonia take off that same type of green spotting on proof Lib nickels. An overnight soak did wonders and removed all traces of the spotting
other than a faint toning shadow in the worst affected area. But the ammonia will also remove most dirt, grime, and probably some toning as well.

nwcoast · March 1, 2012 12:31AM

Yes, ammonia/water solution is the best that i've found to remove green on silver.
I had many coins with PVC and other green corrosions that I was able to take down with Windex of all things.
A very helpful and respected local dealer shared this tip with me and it's been a blessing.

mr1931S · March 1, 2012 1:15AM

The green spots could be corrosion from the copper in the dime.If so,nothing you can do for that problem as far as I know.I don't think acetone is going to help anything for the coin......unless.....the green is not corrosion.Acetone would get crayon off and so will goo gone.

I wouldn't be afraid to dip this coin.It's ugly the way it is and won't bring you more than its silver price if you leave it the way it is.

Just don't get carried away with the dip to the point of etching the surface of the coin.

If the green is corrosion dip,acetone or goo gone will not remove it.

nwcoast · April 11, 2012 1:11PM

Bumping this one for the updated photo.....

magikbilly · April 11, 2012 1:54PM

Hello,

I will certainly be the only member here who prefers the before image (preferably without the verdigris). However, it looks good which can't be said of so many other attempts

Eric

TwoSides2aCoin · April 11, 2012 2:07PM

At the point one decides an original coin needs fixin' to be collectible, it is a problem. It's probably best finding one that doesn't need fixin', but I'm glad some tricks of the trade work on the undesireables.
An old farm hand once said : "if it can't be fixed with duct tape or baling wire, it can't be fixed."

Nysoto · April 11, 2012 2:10PM

Same coin?

stealer · April 11, 2012 2:16PM

I like the outcome a lot better.

magikbilly · April 11, 2012 2:18PM

Hi,

Yes, same coin, same markers.

Best,
Eric

leothelyon · April 11, 2012 2:35PM

When the clown your showing it to has no idea what side of the coin matters the most.

At what point does 'original' become a problem?(update on coin)

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