I have absolutely no experience with these; do they typically have the raised rim? And is it usual to have what resembles casting bubbles in the fields all around the lettering and on the devices?
I have an NGC "clamshell" case. I've opened and closed it many times. The coin inside is completely legitimate.
MessyDesk needed to open the slab to get a picture, because the slab has hairlines. He took one crack with some pliers - bang! - and somehow managed to leave only a minimal mark on one edge while creating a slab that opens and shuts. I don't think he could do it again if he tried a thousand times, it was amazing.
The coin looks perfectly fine to me and I would guess it will easily regrade with a chance for an upgrade at PCGS (AU58). Send it to NGC if you want it in a MS slab. :-)
Those bumps are PERFECTLY normal for this type of coin, caused by rusted dies.
I see no reason to worry at all. The OGH does not really do much for me when it comes to this coin. It speaks for itself in any holder.
edited to add:
Here is one side of a NGC MS62 (bleh, staple scratch and all). Those bumps are easily seen.
tdn, the coin? or the slab/label? please elaborate... i value your opinions on things like this. >>
The fabric of the coin just doesn't match those I've seen in the Heritage archives. The ones that I've seen look well struck with good surfaces. Granted, I don't know this series nor its nuances.
The old rattler holder is a moot point now, as it is cracked and there ain't no puttin' it together again. But everyone judging the coin harshly based on the appearance of roughshod manufacture is probably doing so in error, as that's how they were made... not on a well-oiled, well-equipped coin press. I would side with fc's opinion, and hope it gets into a new holder without issue for you. Fingers crossed.
<< <i>The coin looks perfectly fine to me and I would guess it will easily regrade with a chance for an upgrade at PCGS (AU58). Send it to NGC if you want it in a MS slab. :-)
Those bumps are PERFECTLY normal for this type of coin, caused by rusted dies.
I see no reason to worry at all. The OGH does not really do much for me when it comes to this coin. It speaks for itself in any holder. >>
Agree with everything here except that it wasn't in an OGH holder and the grade being AU58 is a bit optimistic. These were made under primitive conditions and they tend to be a bit crude but that is part of their charm.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am surprised that PCGS asked you to pay for shipping to correct what appears to be their error.
There are 2 of these on Ebay for sale in PCGS slabs for comparison. Seller tnfc in Orlando has the coin in PCGS MS62.
I don't think CAC would certify a coin when the PCGS cert number doesn't agree with the coin being submitted. The CAC website has verification search and the search wouldn't work.
I was at Coney Island a few years ago in Brooklyn and bought a bottle of Poland Spring water from a hot dog vendor. As I was walking away the top popped off. I then understood why guys go around Central Park picking up only Poland Spring bottles from the trash. I took the bottle back to the vendor and asked for a can of Coke instead. It is much harder to refill a Coke can.
If the break on the slab was a clean break around the seam, I wonder what the two slab shells would bring on eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> Agree with everything here except that it wasn't in an OGH holder and the grade being AU58 is a bit optimistic. These were made under primitive conditions and they tend to be a bit crude but that is part of their charm. >>
I guess I lump in all PCGS green labels as OGH. Easier then saying rattler or something else you are thinking of? No biggie.
You may be right about the grade. No harm in setting myself up for the long term "nailed the grade" when it goes back to PCGS ;-)
<< <i>I am lost, the cert didn't match, and the holder broke open, was it at the seams, and if so that is incredibly odd from a fall, I don't know how many times slabs have squirted out of my hands and on to the hard surface of the floor without anything EVER happening, in fact I never thought anything would ever happen. Does this make any sense to you? >>
The cert began with the number 50 and PCGS announced on these boards long ago that there were some database problems with coins that began with 50 in that they might not show up correctly. I've never had a rattler crack open like this, but must admit that these rattlers have always made me worry that they would open easily when cracked on a corner just right.
i sent the coin in with the original holder. pcgs called me and told me that they consider the coin submission raw, (of course) and i explained that i was sending the holder in along with an explanation about my history with the coin just for what it's worth. so, we got the order straightened out and the result:
Genuine (95 - Scratch or Rim Nick)
so disappointing. i know there was no damage from it falling out of the holder, due to photos i have before and after. i think this must be due to the scratches on the obverse, which were there when the coin was in the holder. anyway...this sucks. i don't agree with the grade, but my opinion doesn't count for much now.
this coin is so fragile. that's something i realized when it came out of the case and i had to handle it raw. it seems almost as thin as paper.
in the late 80's, pcgs thought this was market acceptable PMD...hence the 53 grade, i assume. now, they think it's 95 and i am screwed on this one.
so, you win some and lose you some. this one stings.
I think if you wait awhile, it will be market acceptable again. Also, I firmly believe that it is market acceptable ATS. Send it there, get it slabbed, wait 2 years and cross it. IMHO.
edit to add: or sell it and one of the big boys will have it holdered by the end of the Balt. show next week.
Sorry about the crack out, I love those rattlers. And to make it worse a 95 (scratched) with the old PCGS rattler label shipped with it. Any mention of what they thought about the holder?
I had three coins (Rattlers) that did not match at PCGS, my Franklin half was listed as a 1891-CC morgan, the other two were unlisted. After a few emails and pictures the Morgan dollar was remove, and then all three were correctly listed there. Guess it took 5 or 6 months. Today I check all items.
On a coin like that, with the disagreement you have with this, I would think about sending it ATS. You also may have been better off not sending in with the old one and what happened as they may have felt that the fall/crackout caused the issues they saw.
I wish you the best on this and hope something good happens if you do resubmit or send elsewhere
<< <i>Sorry about the crack out, I love those rattlers. And to make it worse a 95 (scratched) with the old PCGS rattler label shipped with it. Any mention of what they thought about the holder?
I had three coins (Rattlers) that did not match at PCGS, my Franklin half was listed as a 1891-CC morgan, the other two were unlisted. After a few emails and pictures the Morgan dollar was remove, and then all three were correctly listed there. Guess it took 5 or 6 months. Today I check all items. >>
The fact that the holder opened so easily and now the details grade makes me suspect that the slab was tampered with. It might not have been marketable acceptable to PCGS in the 1980s.
The fact that the holder opened so easily and now the details grade makes me suspect that the slab was tampered with. It might not have been marketable acceptable to PCGS in the 1980s. >>
yeah, that's certainly a possibility. either way, the coin is what it is. so, i'll just hang onto it. i agree that all the circumstances make it seem very peculiar.
logically, PCGS should be under some obligation to remove the coin which is now errantly using your coin's cert number. it makes no sense that they should switch your coin and your coin's holder and cert number.
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MessyDesk needed to open the slab to get a picture, because the slab has hairlines. He took one crack with some pliers - bang! - and somehow managed to leave only a minimal mark on one edge while creating a slab that opens and shuts. I don't think he could do it again if he tried a thousand times, it was amazing.
<< <i>Ruh roh - that dont look right >>
tdn, the coin? or the slab/label? please elaborate... i value your opinions on things like this.
a chance for an upgrade at PCGS (AU58). Send it to NGC if you want it in a MS slab. :-)
Those bumps are PERFECTLY normal for this type of coin, caused by rusted dies.
I see no reason to worry at all. The OGH does not really do much for me when it
comes to this coin. It speaks for itself in any holder.
edited to add:
Here is one side of a NGC MS62 (bleh, staple scratch and all). Those bumps are easily
seen.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ruh roh - that dont look right >>
tdn, the coin? or the slab/label? please elaborate... i value your opinions on things like this. >>
The fabric of the coin just doesn't match those I've seen in the Heritage archives. The ones that I've seen look well struck with good surfaces. Granted, I don't know this series nor its nuances.
of roughshod manufacture is probably doing so in error, as that's how they were made... not on a well-oiled, well-equipped coin press. I would side with fc's opinion,
and hope it gets into a new holder without issue for you. Fingers crossed.
<< <i>The coin looks perfectly fine to me and I would guess it will easily regrade with
a chance for an upgrade at PCGS (AU58). Send it to NGC if you want it in a MS slab. :-)
Those bumps are PERFECTLY normal for this type of coin, caused by rusted dies.
I see no reason to worry at all. The OGH does not really do much for me when it
comes to this coin. It speaks for itself in any holder. >>
Agree with everything here except that it wasn't in an OGH holder and the grade being AU58 is a bit optimistic. These were made under primitive conditions and they tend to be a bit crude but that is part of their charm.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There are 2 of these on Ebay for sale in PCGS slabs for comparison. Seller tnfc in Orlando has the coin in PCGS MS62.
I don't think CAC would certify a coin when the PCGS cert number doesn't agree with the coin being submitted. The CAC website
has verification search and the search wouldn't work.
I was at Coney Island a few years ago in Brooklyn and bought a bottle of Poland Spring water from a hot dog vendor. As I was walking
away the top popped off. I then understood why guys go around Central Park picking up only Poland Spring bottles from the trash.
I took the bottle back to the vendor and asked for a can of Coke instead. It is much harder to refill a Coke can.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
Agree with everything here except that it wasn't in an OGH holder and the grade being AU58 is a bit optimistic. These were made under primitive conditions and they tend to be a bit crude but that is part of their charm. >>
I guess I lump in all PCGS green labels as OGH. Easier then saying rattler or something
else you are thinking of? No biggie.
You may be right about the grade. No harm in setting myself up for the long term
"nailed the grade" when it goes back to PCGS ;-)
<< <i>I am lost, the cert didn't match, and the holder broke open, was it at the seams, and if so that is incredibly odd from a fall, I don't know how many times slabs have squirted out of my hands and on to the hard surface of the floor without anything EVER happening, in fact I never thought anything would ever happen. Does this make any sense to you? >>
The cert began with the number 50 and PCGS announced on these boards long ago that there were some database problems with coins that began with 50 in that they might not show up correctly. I've never had a rattler crack open like this, but must admit that these rattlers have always made me worry that they would open easily when cracked on a corner just right.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Genuine (95 - Scratch or Rim Nick)
so disappointing. i know there was no damage from it falling out of the holder, due to photos i have before and after. i think this must be due to the scratches on the obverse, which were there when the coin was in the holder. anyway...this sucks. i don't agree with the grade, but my opinion doesn't count for much now.
this coin is so fragile. that's something i realized when it came out of the case and i had to handle it raw. it seems almost as thin as paper.
in the late 80's, pcgs thought this was market acceptable PMD...hence the 53 grade, i assume. now, they think it's 95 and i am screwed on this one.
so, you win some and lose you some. this one stings.
edit to add: or sell it and one of the big boys will have it holdered by the end of the Balt. show next week.
I had three coins (Rattlers) that did not match at PCGS, my Franklin half was listed as a 1891-CC morgan, the other two were unlisted. After a few emails and pictures the Morgan dollar was remove, and then all three were correctly listed there. Guess it took 5 or 6 months. Today I check all items.
*
You also may have been better off not sending in with the old one and what happened as they may have felt that the fall/crackout caused the issues they saw.
I wish you the best on this and hope something good happens if you do resubmit or send elsewhere
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I'd be tempted to put it back together. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard. Problem is, then things would look really suspicious.
I wouldn't send the cert and slab to PCGS. They'll just toss it and the graders won't see it. I guess it would be nice for the pops, though.
What an unhappy turn of events! Let us know how it grades.
Lance. >>
I agree, especially if you can get the coin back in without damaging it.
<< <i>Sorry about the crack out, I love those rattlers. And to make it worse a 95 (scratched) with the old PCGS rattler label shipped with it. Any mention of what they thought about the holder?
I had three coins (Rattlers) that did not match at PCGS, my Franklin half was listed as a 1891-CC morgan, the other two were unlisted. After a few emails and pictures the Morgan dollar was remove, and then all three were correctly listed there. Guess it took 5 or 6 months. Today I check all items. >>
The fact that the holder opened so easily and now the details grade makes me suspect that the slab was tampered with. It might not have been marketable acceptable to PCGS in the 1980s.
<< <i>
The fact that the holder opened so easily and now the details grade makes me suspect that the slab was tampered with. It might not have been marketable acceptable to PCGS in the 1980s. >>
yeah, that's certainly a possibility. either way, the coin is what it is. so, i'll just hang onto it. i agree that all the circumstances make it seem very peculiar.
cert link