1793 S-1 chain cent question

oneor11 · February 10, 2012 2:30AM

Hi everyone,

I've started a 1793-1964 circ strike type set to appreciate all coins, examine different periods in history, and pass the time while searching for above average key date strikes on my Peace Dollar set. It's always been my dream to own the 1793 Chain Cent Ameri. (S-1) I'll be getting a little bonus from work later in the quarter and was thinking now may be the time. Now or never. Anyway, I was thinking about one in the AG3 - G6 range (grades just used for reference here). It's hard to find any S-1s at all, much less ones that look nice. But one thing that they all seem to have in common in this grade range is that the date is missing. Of course the "AMERI." on the reverse dates the coin, but there's just something nice about being able to see the date.

So for you experts out there, have you seen any AG3 - G6 examples that have a date? I found one I like. It doesn't have the date, but the obverse and reverse seem pretty nice. Just wondering if it would be a waste of time to keep searching. These seem to come up so few and far between online. Not sure how plentiful they are at major coin shows, since I've never went to one looking for this particular coin.

Thanks for the help.

Jacob

renomedphys · February 10, 2012 2:37AM

They are around and available, but far more seldom problem free, regardless of the grade. The top dealers rule the roost as far as these are concerned. I'd start by trying Tom Reynolds, Doug Bird, Hannigans, and who's that guy, the "Colonel" I think? Ellsworth? Butternut? There are a few others that come to mind, one that I bought a nice 1812 from last year at the ANA, who's face I can see but whose name escapes me.

edited to add: It couldn't hurt to try Chris McCauley and Tony Terranova too. Tony always seems to have rare and esoteric stuff in high problem-free grades, so probably no S-1. Chris on the other hand probably has one stowed away somewhere with problems but at a fair price.

This is a peculiar issue whose popularity, not rarity dictates the high price. There are a lot more of them around than available, and there are some that hoard them in any condition, driving the price even higher.

shorecoll · February 10, 2012 2:40AM

The technical AG-3s with a date are generally in higher grade slabs...that said, they do exist.

edit to add: Many people display chains reverse out, so the date doesn't always matter.

PerryHall · February 10, 2012 2:51AM

<< <i>The technical AG-3s with a date are generally in higher grade slabs...that said, they do exist. >>

Approximately how much will the AG-3 with date and reasonably smooth surfaces cost these days? How about a solid G-4? Just curious to see if I could afford one.

oneor11 · February 10, 2012 2:56AM

<< <i>

<< <i>The technical AG-3s with a date are generally in higher grade slabs...that said, they do exist. >>

Approximately how much will the AG-3 with date and reasonably smooth surfaces cost these days? How about a solid G-4? Just curious to see if I could afford one. >>

That's a good question I'd be interested in too. I haven't seen too many examples with prices. But I had the figures of around $8000 for a nice AG3 and $10,500 for a nice G6 floating in my head. THat's a lot of dough there

But I hope it wouldn't be any higher.

Edit: g4 to g6

PerryHall · February 10, 2012 3:12AM

Is there much difference in cost/value of the S-! and the other chain cent varieties? I assume a type set collector could buy either variety to represent the type.

rays · February 10, 2012 3:53AM

An S-1 with a readable date and no damage, slabbed by PCGS in AG3 will cost at least $6000. A fine is more like $25-30K.

BillJones · February 10, 2012 5:30AM

The Chain cent I ever owned was a 1793 S-1. It was real dog with even the AMERI. hard to discern but there was no doubt as to what it was. Going back to another thread about coin counters in old department stores, I bought from Gimbels in Philadelphia for $270 and sold it at an EAC show some years later for $450. The date had been “enhanced” to make it show so it probably didn’t have a date. Still it was an AMERI.

I did search on the Heritage site for Chain AMERI. cents, and was surprised to see that the pieces they had handled were not that nice, even in the higher grades. The best ones still had some rough surfaces and had probably been worked on.

Now here’s a story that make you a little mad and a little jealous. Many years ago a less than honest barber from Maine bought 50 large cents for $50 from an obviously less than well informed person. Here is one of the large cents.

A well known (at least to us old guys) Maine dealer-collector got wind of this piece and tried to buy it from the barber. At one point the dealer the offered him a new car for the coin. (I don't know what the make and model was.) The ower refused to sell or trade it for years. In mean time he carried it a round in his wallet and put some of the scraches on it that you see here, therefore lowering the value.

After the Maine dealer finally bought the coin, he loaned it to me to "fondle" for a while and also show off in an exhibit at an EAC convention. I scraped up every penny I could and offered the dealer $10,000 for it, which he refused as I suspected he would. You must remember that this was more than 25 years ago.

So there you see high grade coins can come from surprising places.

I'll tell you this. A Chain AMERI. cent is going to cost you more than you ever dreamed. Even now the coin is beyond my means in a grade that would suit me, say a decent looking Fine. Check out the one pictured as a Fine in the 6th edition of the ANA Grading Guide. It's not that great. The surfaces are rough, and "ONE CENT" is not complete on the reverse. So far as I know the population is still under 200 pieces (R-4 rating), and the demand has only gotten higher.

BillJones · February 10, 2012 6:24AM

I just checked out the "Collectors' Corner" site. The only 1793 S-1 cent that is offered there is a PCGS Good-6 with no date visible. The asking price is over $10,000.

IrishMikey · February 10, 2012 6:34AM

I hear that the Gallery Mint had some a while ago that were much more reaasonably priced.

yellowkid · February 10, 2012 6:45AM

<< <i>The Chain cent I ever owned was a 1793 S-1. It was real dog with even the AMERI. hard to discern but there was no doubt as to what it was. Going back to another thread about coin counters in old department stores, I bought from Gimbels in Philadelphia for $270 and sold it at an EAC show some years later for $450. The date had been “enhanced” to make it show so it probably didn’t have a date. Still it was an AMERI.

I did search on the Heritage site for Chain AMERI. cents, and was surprised to see that the pieces they had handled were not that nice, even in the higher grades. The best ones still had some rough surfaces and had probably been worked on.

Now here’s a story that make you a little mad and a little jealous. Many years ago a less than honest barber from Maine bought 50 large cents for $50 from an obviously less than well informed person. Here is one of the large cents.

A well known (at least to us old guys) Maine dealer-collector got wind of this piece and tried to buy it from the barber. At one point the dealer the offered him a new car for the coin. (I don't know what the make and model was.) The ower refused to sell or trade it for years. In mean time he carried it a round in his wallet and put some of the scraches on it that you see here, therefore lowering the value.

After the Maine dealer finally bought the coin, he loaned it to me to "fondle" for a while and also show off in an exhibit at an EAC convention. I scraped up every penny I could and offered the dealer $10,000 for it, which he refused as I suspected he would. You must remember that this was more than 25 years ago.

So there you see high grade coins can come from surprising places.

I'll tell you this. A Chain AMERI. cent is going to cost you more than you ever dreamed. Even now the coin is beyond my means in a grade that would suit me, say a decent looking Fine. Check out the one pictured as a Fine in the 6th edition of the ANA Grading Guide. It's not that great. The surfaces are rough, and "ONE CENT" is not complete on the reverse. So far as I know the population is still under 200 pieces (R-4 rating), and the demand has only gotten higher. >>

Great story Bill, thanks for sharing it!!

golden · February 10, 2012 9:15AM

Only buy one in a holder from our hosts.

1793 S-1 chain cent question

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