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How to make 35k on a cross over!!

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  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This transaction should be the poster child for what's wrong with coin collecting nowadays. >>



    It is disturbing.

    To me, a novice, the bigger issue which will continue to drive the crack out game is the huge price difference between the higher grades.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It actually doesn't bother me in the least. If you cracked every single 45-S out of their slabs and lined them up end to end this particular coin would probably be deemed as the best of breed regardless of technical grade. With that being said is it 15K better then the "second' best example? That is for the market to decide. The buyer wanted what he perceived to be the best of this issue.

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WOW !!!
    Timbuk3
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It actually doesn't bother me in the least. If you cracked every single 45-S out of their slabs and lined them up end to end this particular coin would probably be deemed as the best of breed regardless of technical grade. With that being said is it 15K better then the "second' best example? That is for the market to decide. The buyer wanted what he perceived to be the best of this issue. MJ >>



    But then the obvious question is why didn't this best of breed get a MS67 or even a MS68 when at NGC? Those guys are quite consistent within their own grading standard. At least
    that's what I've seen over the past 25 yrs as being primarily an NGC submitter. You can comment all you want on how they compare to PCGS but the bottom line is that they are
    pretty darn consistent within their set boundaries. Best of breed for any grade usually doesn't find its way into a lower holder. Average to lower end ones...sure.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold


  • << <i>I believe that the real winner was the under-bidder in the Heritage sale. I cannot see these prices holding up for such modern coins. Spend your money on classic Flowing Hair or Bust coins and I believe that you will do well. >>



    I agree, paying this kind of money for a late date walking liberty half is insane! There is the possibility that someone has several dozen OBW rolls with a couple 67's in them. The registry sets have distorted the true value of many coins.
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess it pays to be lucky.image
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It actually doesn't bother me in the least. If you cracked every single 45-S out of their slabs and lined them up end to end this particular coin would probably be deemed as the best of breed regardless of technical grade. With that being said is it 15K better then the "second' best example? That is for the market to decide. The buyer wanted what he perceived to be the best of this issue. MJ >>



    But then the obvious question is why didn't this best of breed get a MS67 or even a MS68 when at NGC? Those guys are quite consistent within their own grading standard. At least
    that's what I've seen over the past 25 yrs as being primarily an NGC submitter. You can comment all you want on how they compare to PCGS but the bottom line is that they are
    pretty darn consistent within their set boundaries. >>



    On any given day I guess. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doubling in price for each grade above MS62 was pretty much the norm for type coins in the 1986-1990 market as well. And it worked for a lot of dated coin sets too.
    But there's always been the stretching of multiples for very low pop tops in the late 19th and early 20th century sets. You don't quite get that for most pre-Civil War
    coinage. For those collecting 18th to 19th century MS coins the multiples seen for 20th century coins as you near the finest knowns is hard to comprehend. I guess that's
    why I stayed in the 19th century (Twilight Zone) for the most part.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These coins were saved by the roll. When, not if, the next 67 is made, how much do you want to bet that this coin will lose half of its value? This coin has the marking of the purchase of that "finest known" 53 S FBL Franklin, a few years back, all over it.

    If you have the finest known 1897 S Barber Quarter, it's a safe bet that another one won't be made anytime soon. But virtually anything minted after the early 20th century was saved by the roll. That even includes SLQs.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The difference with this coin is that it's a toner. Much more difficult to find a 67 with nice bulls eye toning. And if you do, they will still be very different looking.
    As long as you can say you have the 67.5 and the next guy's is only 67.4, you can justify the price difference. You can't replace the best. I don't condone the
    price this one fetched because it is nuts. But to own the very single best usually takes crazy money.

    There's still some neat ungraded or old graded barber stuff out there. I'd wager that the odds of beating out the current finest graded 97-s quarter is about 30-50%.
    But if you consider the finest graded 1867-s quarter, then I would concede the odds of beating that someday was about .000001%. Fwiw I made that bet back in
    1975 and 36 yrs later there's still nothing within 3 pts.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It actually doesn't bother me in the least. If you cracked every single 45-S out of their slabs and lined them up end to end this particular coin would probably be deemed as the best of breed regardless of technical grade. With that being said is it 15K better then the "second' best example? That is for the market to decide. The buyer wanted what he perceived to be the best of this issue.

    MJ >>



    Look PCGS price guide at ms66 is only $500, who knows if that is reality, and in ms67 it is $22.5k, a $20k spread, that just doesn't make sense to my eyes and mind. The ms66 price has got to be wrong or the ms67 is very wrong. Now that $17k comp could be a product of the pcgs $22.5k price so it is like the chicken or the egg theory. But something is wrong with these spreads/numbers. How about this if I collected these which I don't I would personally believe that this type of price differential is fooy and do my own anaylsis and be done with it. Afterall I won't be guided by misguided info no matter who prints it. If something doesn't make sense I am not going to jump. As an example a 1831 10c in ms65 is about $8k and in ms66 it is $14.5k, now that makes a heck of a lot of sense and in ms67 a whopping $30k still makes sense, the values are doubling with every graded rise so i can relate to that and live with it and agree with it and feel good about it And what i think matters more than what a price guide or a couple of auction sales report. >>



    The 45-S is the third worst stuck coin of the late dates in the series. A mushy strike is 98% of all 45-s. A decent strike is relatively scarce. A good strike is quite scarce and is a condition rarity. That is really the defining line between 65's, 66's and 67's (marks in the right obverse field and the usual spots not withstanding).

    JMHO. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • So many things come to mind:

    Where were the under-bidders the FIRST time around? This is a simple example of buying the plastic, not the coin. If not, why wouldn't ANYONE, 6 months ago, touch it for over $2000???

    No, this did not take any "guts"' from the previous owner to crack it and send it raw. Not much down-side risk at all.

    OR, if it was a "buy the coin, not the plastic" congrats to the high-bidder (the $1600 man) , who felt it was undergraded.
    Continued good-grading eyes out there, who can find a decent value on "undergraded" coins, can score sometimes.
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • What nonsense. Perfect example of buying plastic and labels. Its the same coin as it was when it had a different label. Whoever bought this deserves to be buried in it. This could be a good case study and what is wrong with the whole slabbing game.


  • << <i>What nonsense. Perfect example of buying plastic and labels. Its the same coin as it was when it had a different label. Whoever bought this deserves to be buried in it. This could be a good case study and what is wrong with the whole slabbing game. >>



    image


    Precisely what happens when you get a group of people banging the drum about their pet grading service like it's their religion. It's the same coin yet the plastic it was in multiplied the price. It's the same coin in both auctions and an excellent one at that, but the point is it was just as excellent in the first auction. A fool and his money are soon parted.
  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the thread, schatzy. Very interesting.

    The 45-S is an interesting study in my beloved WLH series. Going back a scant 4 and one half years, only 2 P67s were available for the date - second lowest behind LuLu's unique 42-S P67 magnificent toner. The population has steadily risen. In terms of population, the rise is similar to the 40-S.

    I track these condition rarities. Here is the info from my files:

    (1) White specimen, up for auction at Heritage, I did not think it was nice enough to bid on. Slab 06695007, now in Lifetime Achievement Short Set. Sold for $17,250 1/6/10
    image
    (2) Obverse tab color – I was sniffing for this one, but Pinnacle recommended against. Slab 11443585. Sold for $21,850, 9/17/08
    image
    (3) White specimen, ex. GBW/Jack Lee – likely in Charles Schultz pedigree holder 13809677. Likely a pretty half - the GBW/Jack Lee combo makes for a damn nice resume.
    image
    (4) Peripheral colors. CAC. For sale at Heritage 1/11. Sold for $37,375 [$32,500 + buyer’s premium] Slab 06618783.
    image
    (5) Dawson Oskey. For sale at Pinnacle for $29,500 12/10. Slab 6635048.
    image
    (6) Mine.
    image

    Locations of MS67 examples: (i) Lu Lu set. (ii) Gerald Forsythe. (iii) Lifetime Achievement. (iv) Mine. (v) For sale by Pinnacle 12/10. (vi) Unknown.

    The look of the subject coin in quite nice. Excellent 'playing the plastic'. It does have great color and a strong strike, which is tough for a 45-S, as has been mentioned by other WLH lovers.

    Thanks again for a wonderful thread. I've updated my files to show the 'source' of this coin.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man I was hoping that you would show up. Great info. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Holy crap, JBN! And i thought i tracked Walkers. Great information. Can you please do that for the early dates?

    And I concur with MJ's thoughts. If someone wants to spend 37k for a wonderfully toned 45-S, he can likely afford it.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • I agree that if you have the money and wish to drop it on something like this have at it. Although I get a nice chuckle out of imagining this coin coming out for a session of show and tell with the buyers friends and the inevitable statement from someone about how "if this coin were in an ANACS or NGC slab it would surely be a 68+"image

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