How to make 35k on a cross over!!

Schatzy · January 25, 2012 11:16AM

1945-S Standing Liberty Half

August 2010
NGC MS66* sold for $1,610
Link

February 2011
PCGS MS67 sold for $37,375
Link

edit: This is not my coin!!

Cakes · January 25, 2012 11:20AM

<< 1945-S Standing Liberty Half

August 2010
NGC MS66* sold for $1,610
Link

February 2011
PCGS MS67 sold for $37,375
Link >>

Holy Hell, I would really hate to be the guy that sold it for $1,610.

segoja · January 25, 2012 11:23AM

SCORE A BIG YOU SUCK AWARD!!!!

AUandAG · January 25, 2012 11:25AM

yeowza!

bob

timber100 · January 25, 2012 11:25AM

Amazing, like every other investment made you better be damn careful in what you buy.

braddick · January 25, 2012 11:26AM

Don't fee too bad. Who knows? He might have bought it at a show from a customer for $500. and that customer may have purchased it off a bid board for $40. and sent it in for grading.
The next guy my get a + on it and it'll sell for $50,000. Who knows?
I don't feel sorry for anyone.

BaseballAbs · January 25, 2012 11:27AM

That really blows my mind. WOW!

BringMeDown · January 25, 2012 11:27AM

This is depressing to the first seller.

SanctionII · January 25, 2012 11:33AM

I suspect that the guys who bid on Storage Units on "Storage Wars" would look at this thread and the pictured coin and say that this deal is an example of the: "WOW FACTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

The person who bought the coin for $37,375.00 had better never, ever, do anything that would result in the coin being cracked out of the PCGS 67 holder. Further he or she better make darn sure that the green CAC sticker is never removed, damaged or impaired in any way [i.e. do not leave the slab sitting on the corner of a desk where a young child or the family dog can take it and chew on it a little bit].

golden · January 25, 2012 11:34AM

I believe that the real winner was the under-bidder in the Heritage sale. I cannot see these prices holding up for such modern coins. Spend your money on classic Flowing Hair or Bust coins and I believe that you will do well.

comma · January 25, 2012 11:36AM

Depressing to the first seller and depressing to me that I didn't buy it in 2010

Schatzy · January 25, 2012 11:36AM

<< I suspect that the guys who bid on Storage Units on "Storage Wars" would look at this thread and the pictured coin and say that this deal is an example of the: "WOW FACTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

The person who bought the coin for $37,375.00 had better never, ever, do anything that would result in the coin being cracked out of the PCGS 67 holder. Further he or she better make darn sure that the green CAC sticker is never removed, damaged or impaired in any way [i.e. do not leave the slab sitting on the corner of a desk where a young child or the family dog can take it and chew on it a little bit]. >>

I prefer CrAzY FaCtOr

coinsarefun · January 25, 2012 11:38AM

I get lucky like that with crossovers all the time

D · January 25, 2012 11:47AM

Maxed-out widget.

-D

JupitarCoins · January 25, 2012 11:50AM

That definitely deserves a big "YOU SUCK"

Catbert · January 25, 2012 12:04PM

Should make some of you guys wince at always demanding the "right" plastic.

WoodenJefferson · January 25, 2012 12:11PM

This should quiet some of those who always claim that the other guys seem to be a point higher.

stealer · January 25, 2012 12:14PM

I wonder what it would've brought with a gold bean in 66 plastic

Justacommeman · January 25, 2012 12:22PM

<< This should quiet some of those who always claim that the other guys seem to be a point higher. >>

This. MJ

AnkurJ · January 25, 2012 12:34PM

I dont think anyone says that NGC is ALWAYS a grade higher. But often so it.

I recently sent a Flying Eagle Cent graded AU58 by NGC that is coming back as XF45 by PCGS.

In regards to this Walker Half, I would say the original buyer got lucky, VERY lucky.

mkman123 · January 25, 2012 12:38PM

wowzer! I still wouldn't spend that much money on a coin like that.

AuroraBorealis · January 25, 2012 12:38PM

A very nice flip for sure! Someone had a great eye for the pick up from the first auction... Thanks for posting

AB

DIMEMAN · January 25, 2012 12:51PM

I would never spend that kind of money on a common coin even in the high grade and beautiful toning. It's still common. And always will be.

DoubleEagle59 · January 25, 2012 12:56PM

Never, never would I chase a top grade on a 'sort of' modern coin.

Huge waste of money.

Just think of the 1000oz bar of silver you could buy instead of that coin.

In five years from now, there'll be at least 2 or 3 more ms67's dropping the price to 5K and silver will be $100,000 for the same bar.

19Lyds · January 25, 2012 12:57PM

Doesn't this say a lot about the value of a PCGS Slab?

Justacommeman · January 25, 2012 1:23PM

The narrow mindedness in this thread is quite up to par for this forum. Astounding.

FYI- The strike on that S mint coin is out of the world for that issue. MJ

19Lyds · January 25, 2012 1:26PM

<< In five years from now, there'll be at least 2 or 3 more ms67's dropping the price to 5K and silver will be $100,000 for the same bar. >>

While that may be true, those new MS67's might not have the toning that this one has.

Unknown · January 25, 2012 1:27PM

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BAJJERFAN · January 25, 2012 2:32PM

Crack me, CAC me

Anyway you want to

Long as upgrades, it's alright

Crack me, CAC me

Anyway you want to

You got the power to jack up the price.

coindeuce · January 25, 2012 2:35PM

<-----------<<- KOOL AID

bestclser1 · January 25, 2012 3:41PM

<< The narrow mindedness in this thread is quite up to par for this forum. Astounding.

FYI- The strike on that S mint coin is out of the world for that issue. MJ >>

Right on as always MJ. The CAC pop 1 makes a huge difference as well for the non-believers!

fc · January 25, 2012 4:00PM

I wonder if the current owner knows he bought a cracked out 66?
I am not sure i would ever feel good about that fact if i bought it. I would look at it
and think why am i not smart enough to find really good looking 66s and be content with
my awesome wise purchase and grading skills.

Justacommeman · January 25, 2012 4:02PM

<< 

<< The narrow mindedness in this thread is quite up to par for this forum. Astounding.

FYI- The strike on that S mint coin is out of the world for that issue. MJ >>

Right on as always MJ. The CAC pop 1 makes a huge difference as well for the non-believers!

>>

I'm not a huge top pop guy player although I'm cognizant of this arena. My literal narrow minded reference was to that those that get all chirppy about how others spend their money on series that they do not know or collect themselves. Attractive toned Walkers are quite scare to begin with. Some dates/mm come rarely toned at all. S mint marks with full strikes are a condition rarity. Add color to the equation and well you see the results. And no, I did not not buy this coin and yes I also was surprised at the hammer. But, I certainly wouldn't chastise the buyer for what he paid for it. I actually wouldn't chastise anybody for what they pay or what they collect. But, that's just me. MJ

thecoinlook · January 25, 2012 4:17PM

Wow! That is incredible! Congrats to the buyer.
For something like this, do you send it in raw and negate the previous NGC slab, or crossover and hope for an upgrade? (which I have heard almost never happens)

Justacommeman · January 25, 2012 4:18PM

<< I wonder if the current owner knows he bought a cracked out 66?
I am not sure i would ever feel good about that fact if i bought it. I would look at it
and think why am i not smart enough to find really good looking 66s and be content with
my awesome wise purchase and grading skills. >>

I'm not sure I would feel so good about that either. However, my guess is that it was known.

This 45-S date/mm has a population of 6 and the last two went for 17k(mostly white) and 22k (toned) in 2010 and 2008 respectively. I don't even think this was registry driven since there is 6 in PCGS out there. As LC pointed out this coin is the lone 67 PCGS stickered coin.

FWIW I own a 67* in this same date/mm. I'm pretty happy with it. it is also a knob S. My 67 does have a little slab envy truth be told.

This was the auction description of my coin. MJ

Spectacular 1945-S Half Dollar, MS67
1945-S 50C MS67 NGC. Knob S. The 1945-S is an important condition rarity in the Walking Liberty half dollar series. Most pieces are softly struck, but this example exhibits nearly fully defined details. An attractive ring of violet, green, gold, and red graces the left side of the obverse, while the reverse is entirely covered with toning. Numerous striations are noted in the fields, which explains the intense satiny luster throughout. Neither NGC nor PCGS has certified any examples finer (6/09).(Registry values: N2998) (#6626)

AuroraBorealis · January 25, 2012 5:06PM

MJ your Walker is a true treasure... I can say without out a doubt after looking at many Walkers there are very few Star Walkers out there and to have that on a 45-S and an MS67 to boot is as rare a condition as one will find... Congratulations!

AB

stealer · January 25, 2012 5:08PM

<< Wow! That is incredible! Congrats to the buyer.
For something like this, do you send it in raw and negate the previous NGC slab, or crossover and hope for an upgrade? (which I have heard almost never happens) >>

Probably raw. That guy has guts.

Manorcourtman · January 25, 2012 8:30PM

<< I dont think anyone says that NGC is ALWAYS a grade higher. But often so it.

I recently sent a Flying Eagle Cent graded AU58 by NGC that is coming back as XF45 by PCGS.

In regards to this Walker Half, I would say the original buyer got lucky, VERY lucky. >>

OUCH!

yellowkid · January 25, 2012 9:41PM

Wow!

That really gets one to think about slabs and grades. How about being the underbidder in the first auction and finding out what happened to that Walker you didn't want?

Banemorth · January 25, 2012 11:02PM

I bid on that auction in 2010. Never would have tried to cross it though. Just loved the look for my set. Oh well!

guitarwes · January 25, 2012 11:26PM

That coin was cracked out, worked on, and submitted raw to get the 67.

Check out the goop on the sun in the eariler auction and it's nonexistence in the big money auction. That's the first thing I noticed, may be other things.

DIMEMAN · January 26, 2012 12:26AM

I noticed that sun thing too. At first I didn't think it was the same coin because of it (sun). But other things clearly pointed out that it is the same coin.

I'm by all means not chastising the buyer, but that is a lot of money for a common late date walker. I know it's condition rare and has the beautiful tone, but I guess I look at what I could buy with the extra 34K after buying a REAL nice 45-S for 1K.

I actually like MJ's coin just as well....and it probably went for quite a bit less.

That's just me.

CoinRaritiesOnline · January 26, 2012 12:33AM

<< That coin was cracked out, worked on, and submitted raw to get the 67.

Check out the goop on the sun in the eariler auction and it's nonexistence in the big money auction. That's the first thing I noticed, may be other things. >>

I have no dog in this fight. I too am amazed at the different auction results.

But I don't believe that there was "goop" removed from the sun. Looks like the same scuff in both images, just lit from a different angle.

messydesk · January 26, 2012 12:42AM

Some of the marks seen on the Heritage pictures aren't visible on the S/B pictures because of the lighting, so it stands to reason that the reverse holds true as well. Note the horizontal mark on the breast on the Heritage picture.

JCMhouston · January 26, 2012 12:58AM

<< Doesn't this say a lot about the value of a PCGS Slab? >>

What it appears to say is that NGC grades these a lot tougher than PCGS, since it moved up a full grade.

Cakes · January 26, 2012 2:33AM

I say thank you to the OP and all who have responded. The more threads like this that I read the more I learn. I really underestimated just how complex coin collecting is, there are so many angles.

Aegis3 · January 26, 2012 5:21AM

<< Doesn't this say a lot about the value of a PCGS Slab? >>

I would say it says something about the real precision of numerical grading, and also about human psychology.

SanctionII · January 26, 2012 5:35AM

"real precision of numerical grading" is a phrase that has no meaning.

Grading has been and always will be a matter of subjective opinion. Even the holy graille of "computerzed grading" will never provide objectivity and quantifiable standards.

Human psychology will always be a major component in the purchasing and sales of collectible coins. That is what makes things fun in the hobby.

Barry · January 26, 2012 5:50AM

This transaction should be the poster child for what's wrong with coin collecting nowadays.

Unknown · January 26, 2012 5:59AM

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roadrunner · January 26, 2012 6:26AM

Very unlikely this coin was crossed into a 67 holder. That rarely happens for "white" plastic. Much more probable that it was cracked out, esp. considering the
downside on the coin wasn't huge.

I've personally been on the wrong end of numerous upgraded/PQ/crossed NGC coins. And it definitely stings a bit. The one I remember best was my
1890 NGC PF68 (pop 1 or 2 for date at NGC, 0 for PCGS) seated half out of a 2003? Heritage sale as ex-Kaufman at around $14K or so.
The coin had wonderful album-like toning and no hits. But it had what I thought was a light wipe under the eagle in the field. And the toning hid the mirrors a bit.
I had tried selling that a number of times as the market perked up but didn't get anyone who wanted to pay more than I did a few years earlier. I
finally sold it to a major wholesaler around 2006-2007 for around $14.5K...and happy to have the money freed up. It showed up within
6 months in a Heritage auction as PCGS PF68 CAM. It went from an NGC pop 35 coin for type to a pop 2 at PCGS. How come
all the bidders at Kaufman didn't bid this higher if it were a no brainer 68? Fwiw it fetched $35,000 at Heritage with part of
that due to getting a CAM designation even if the coin was about 50% toned. Going from 1 of 35 to only 1 of 2 is a huge difference. Or in the end is
there almost no difference between those top 2 and the next 35-50 pieces? I even recall that auction quite well as Legend paid $12K or so for a couple
of white "headlight" PF68's (1882 and 1888 I think) and easily sold those right away with asking prices in the upper teens. They had told me they passed
on the 1890 as it didn't measure up to them. That $14K for the 1890 was the highest price paid at for the Kaufman NGC with motto PF68's. Those were my
risk taking days as I bid on that coin solely from the photo, which looked incredible. But once home under a good light I thought it had a small wipe on the
reverse and was unhappy with the coin. Obviously I was wrong....or was I? CAC has yet to sticker any PF68 no motto seated half.

I recently auctioned off my pop 1 NGC MS67 cac 1862 half at last yrs summer ANA show. If it's not in a PCGS 67 holder yet, it will be eventually which
should add about 50% to its price. After 4 cross attempts over 6 yrs I gave up. Imo I have not seen a finer MS67 no motto half over the past 9 yrs.
I would agree that there is something wrong with how the system works. It's only about the coin up to a certain point...then the plastic and stickies take over.
The world for certified non-PCGS coins changed dramatically in late 2008. And that's not going to change until the economy and coin markets improve. It does help
if they are stickered, but not as much as you'd think or like.

The sticker on that 1945-s half could be lost and CAC would simply attach another one as the coin is registered by serial number in their data base.

How to make 35k on a cross over!!

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