Gryo: You are comparing the 25th Anniv. set performance to one of the greatest stocks of all time! And, the 25th set is still slightly beating it to date this year. Not too bad (and AAPL is kicking butt as well this year!) Not to mention, you are using the Mercanti first generation label for the comps, which is obviously fine to do. But, how about the $1,985 sales price on the Mercanti Flag set which was my last sales price on ebay yesterday? What would that do to your numbers?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Sooner or later, GM has got to run out of 25th Anny to sell. Object of game at this point - wait out GM. >>
GM initially had a great number of Mercanti 70 sets and without a doubt held prices down to some degree. When they sold out initially a couple/few weeks ago now prices started to move upwards. They've since restocked, sold-out, and restocked again. A couple days ago they had tombstone 70 sets, but nothing else. Now they have just the flag sets for $1400 (which seems like a fantastic price at this point). IMO goldmart is definitely helping to keep prices down with the way they seem to consistently stay under the eBay average. You have to wonder if they'll ever run out of cheap cases to buy and grade or sets to buy as there are only so many to go around and as time goes by more and more find their way to permanent homes.
FWIW, it should be noted that Goldmart gets all p1ssy and sends a nasty-gram to any forum that has a discussion about it. I frequent a couple of other boards and on one of them we received a nastry-gram regarding the Goldmart thread in spite of the fact most all of the posts in the thread were positive. In addition to personally purchasing sets from them, I have sent FOUR other people their way directly and who knows how many others just by talking about them in threads. Long story short I will NEVER buy from Goldmart again or send any more business their way. Honestly I feel like it's my loss on some level as I'm itching to buy two more sets right now, but no way will I patronize their site again given their attitude... I would suggest you guys consider talking to Mitch (wondercoin) or others here in the BST forum before giving GM any business... >>
I was one of the "other people" that got directed to Goldmart, and purchased a Mercanti 70 set back in early December (thanks for the heads-up!). I requested that the original Mint packaging be included, and they sent it free of charge. I actually went back and purchased some silver bullion during the dip in late December. I'm sorry to hear about their bad behavior on the other forum, but while they have the lowest prices - I will continue to be a customer.
For the record WC I also am one of those stupid guys who holds their price while others sell for less............They know what THEIR items are worth to them............That is all..............2nd item......GM doesn't have an endless supply.......think back with the 08 gold buffalo's..........when PM and GM and some of the rest were selling cheaper than others..............price continued to rise for months and months and they had nothing left to sell.......if you have no hot items left to sell your profits suffer and your customers will go elsewhere to purchase those hot items..........and might remember who had what they wanted when they felt the urge to buy.................IMO
Coins101 ... to be totally honest with you ... and this may be entirely wishful thinking on my part ... I plan to sell the 69 graded sets (aggressively) when they are worth about $1,000+ each. In the meantime, I may sell a set here and there for a bit less outside of ebay (e.g. if a board member asks me for one). But, the lion's share of my coins are off the market unless and until they achieve the target price where I feel they deserve to be. By no means am I saying this to "brag" and I am only answering your question ... I just believe that solidly capitalized ventures have the luxury of being able to put the targeted product "on ice" if need be during tough times (and roughly $600-$650/set net for 69 sets was/is considered to be "tough times" in my book). If I turn out to be 100% wrong on these 69 sets and they crash in value to $300/set ... you win some and you lose some, and I try to learn for next time what I did wrong.
As always just my 2 cents ... no predictions being made here ... just an honest answer where my hoard of 69 sets are at the present time.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
P.S. Speaking of selling too early .... I was selling these sets (MS or Proof) to a board member (you know who you are) for $2,500 each in 2008. I was happy to make about a 5%-10% "quick and easy" return at the time. Live and learn!! A very smart customer and friend once told me the day you stop making mistakes is the day you are dead, so I hope to continue to make mistakes for a very, very, very long time to come!
ebay # 250974491990
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
I'm thinking Apr - May - June? >>
It's a chicken and egg type question! In this case, I'm pretty sure that the graded 70 sets are the driver of the sealed set price, not the other way around. I don't think sealed set prices determine what Mercanti 70s go for; the market decides that. Since the initial flood subsided, the market for the graded sets has been steadily marching higher for the past few weeks, causing dealers to bid ever higher for sealed sets in order to replace graded set inventory. That's why I think they have to move in line. Graded 69s are another story, however, since pretty much every coin that is not a 70 is a 69. They therefore do not, nor should they, carry a premium over raw, opened sets, other than whatever premium the "set" pedigree has for a non-key coin. As a result, I expect the price of 70 sets to determine the value of sealed sets, and the price of opened sets to determine the value of 69s.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
I'm thinking Apr - May - June? >>
I agree with this. And I personally think the 70 sets (labels aside) will continue to slowly rise for probably another 3-6 months then level out somewhere...who knows where.
It's a chicken and egg type question! In this case, I'm pretty sure that the graded 70 sets are the driver of the sealed set price, not the other way around. I don't think sealed set prices determine what Mercanti 70s go for; the market decides that. Since the initial flood subsided, the market for the graded sets has been steadily marching higher for the past few weeks, causing dealers to bid ever higher for sealed sets in order to replace graded set inventory. That's why I think they have to move in line. Graded 69s are another story, however, since pretty much every coin that is not a 70 is a 69. They therefore do not, nor should they, carry a premium over raw, opened sets, other than whatever premium the "set" pedigree has for a non-key coin. As a result, I expect the price of 70 sets to determine the value of sealed sets, and the price of opened sets to determine the value of 69s. >>
With the talk about the mint making a reverse proof every year and definitely making an S minted collector version, I can see this sets dropping in price maybe. We shall see. I don't think the average ASE collector can begin buying or at least afford four collector issues each year. The S and W MS and the regular and reverse proof. Mintages could be lower than normal for all 4 issues in the coming years. I am still hoping for $1250 a sealed set before I begin selling my 26 sealed sets.
The mint is not going to have a reverse proof every year....IMO..........and that talk is just that....rumors move markets..........pay attention to previous actions............
Someone stated that on a mint survey, the mint asks whether they should do a reverse proof every year.
When I made the statement about the talk about the mint making a reverse proof every year, I should have stated they are considering making a reverse proof every year.
I just took the survey a few minutes ago. Here it is.
The U.S. Mint may consider offering a special American Eagle Silver Coin Set in 2012. This would be a special set containing the following 1-ounce silver coins:
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Reverse Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set
This set will be the first in a series of annual special Silver coin sets that the U.S. Mint will begin producing once per year, beginning in 2012. The second installment (featuring additonal unique cons would be produced in 2013.
The U.S. Mint plans to manufacture 300,000 of these sets. Once these are sold, no additonal sets will be availble. There will be a pruchase limit of 2 sets per household. The price of this set will be appoximately $125.
They also had two more questions about the possible make up of additional sets, my guess in 2013 about a D minted burnished, regular bullion and ultra high relief in a 3 coin set. Another question was directed about the household limits of 1, 2, 5 or 10 for such a set.
Just something all should consider if they are holding these 25th Anniversary sets, myself included. Though the S Reverse Proof will make it a unique type coin different from the 25th Anniversary set which is a P reverse.
I also left a comment advising against over saturating the ASE collector offerings. They also asked about doing a ultra high relief ASE Proof and I completely agreed that they should do so. Uniqueness is what I collect and I used the 2009 ultra high relief gold as an example. I think most collectors like to collect a coin that is unique.
Funny how two years ago the mint couldnt even produce a proof and a burnished coin and now theyre talking about adding reverse proofs and other mm coins.
<< The U.S. Mint may consider offering a special American Eagle Silver Coin Set in 2012. This would be a special set containing the following 1-ounce silver coins: American Eagle Silver San Francisco Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only available in this special set American Eagle Silver San Francisco Reverse Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set The U.S. Mint plans to manufacture 300,000 of these sets. Once these are sold, no additonal sets will be availble. There will be a purchase limit of 2 sets per household. The price of this set will be approximately $125. >>
So they might make a 26th Anniversary Set after all!
Seriously, I would expect all 300,000 sets to be sold at that price (unless the purchase limit crimps sales). These are proofs, which are much more popular than the mintmarked burnished coins. More than 800,000 2011-W proof silver eagles were sold, many at over $60 each. This set would guarantee a much lower mintage at essentially the same price per coin.
Sure lets make a RP proof coin and currency set with the Obama 3 dollar bill and an oprah single dollar coin and of course lets make the mintage a million or so........should sell out in a year or so. The mints marketing department is still stinging from the 25th set fiasco and as usual they will go and offer something in such large quanity that no one will buy right away........kinda like a dog that chases his tail...as always IMO
<< <i>am i correct in seeing the Mercanti FS 70's "Flag" sets down to $1700? >>
And based upon a quick look, it seems the Mercanti Signature FS 70's non-Flag have sold around $1500 with some nearing $1600. Think they will meet in the near future?
Comments
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>Sooner or later, GM has got to run out of 25th Anny to sell.
Object of game at this point - wait out GM. >>
GM initially had a great number of Mercanti 70 sets and without a doubt held prices down to some degree. When they sold out initially a couple/few weeks ago now prices started to move upwards. They've since restocked, sold-out, and restocked again. A couple days ago they had tombstone 70 sets, but nothing else. Now they have just the flag sets for $1400 (which seems like a fantastic price at this point). IMO goldmart is definitely helping to keep prices down with the way they seem to consistently stay under the eBay average. You have to wonder if they'll ever run out of cheap cases to buy and grade or sets to buy as there are only so many to go around and as time goes by more and more find their way to permanent homes.
FWIW, it should be noted that Goldmart gets all p1ssy and sends a nasty-gram to any forum that has a discussion about it. I frequent a couple of other boards and on one of them we received a nastry-gram regarding the Goldmart thread in spite of the fact most all of the posts in the thread were positive. In addition to personally purchasing sets from them, I have sent FOUR other people their way directly and who knows how many others just by talking about them in threads. Long story short I will NEVER buy from Goldmart again or send any more business their way. Honestly I feel like it's my loss on some level as I'm itching to buy two more sets right now, but no way will I patronize their site again given their attitude... I would suggest you guys consider talking to Mitch (wondercoin) or others here in the BST forum before giving GM any business... >>
I was one of the "other people" that got directed to Goldmart, and purchased a Mercanti 70 set back in early December (thanks for the heads-up!). I requested that the original Mint packaging be included, and they sent it free of charge. I actually went back and purchased some silver bullion during the dip in late December. I'm sorry to hear about their bad behavior on the other forum, but while they have the lowest prices - I will continue to be a customer.
As always just my 2 cents ... no predictions being made here ... just an honest answer where my hoard of 69 sets are at the present time.
Wondercoin
ebay # 250974491990
Wondercoin
Thanks again.
BobH
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set.
<< <i>Sealed Bof5 just went for $4653 on ebay.
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line.
<< <i>Sealed Bof5 just went for $4653 on ebay.
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
The trend is pretty much exactly the same for the mercantis and sealed sets...
<< <i>
<< <i>Sealed Bof5 just went for $4653 on ebay.
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
I'm thinking Apr - May - June?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sealed Bof5 just went for $4653 on ebay.
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
I'm thinking Apr - May - June? >>
It's a chicken and egg type question! In this case, I'm pretty sure that the graded 70 sets are the driver of the sealed set price, not the other way around. I don't think sealed set prices determine what Mercanti 70s go for; the market decides that. Since the initial flood subsided, the market for the graded sets has been steadily marching higher for the past few weeks, causing dealers to bid ever higher for sealed sets in order to replace graded set inventory. That's why I think they have to move in line. Graded 69s are another story, however, since pretty much every coin that is not a 70 is a 69. They therefore do not, nor should they, carry a premium over raw, opened sets, other than whatever premium the "set" pedigree has for a non-key coin. As a result, I expect the price of 70 sets to determine the value of sealed sets, and the price of opened sets to determine the value of 69s.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sealed Bof5 just went for $4653 on ebay.
Getting closer to 5 grrr.
Now, I need the upward sealed box price trend to migrate over to Mercanti slabs and I'll be all set. >>
Isn't it? At the lows, Mercanti 70s were between $1200-$1300, and the boxes of 5 were $3000-$3500. Box of 5 is now around $4500, and Mercanti 70s are now $1500-$1600, which is exactly the type of move that is probably driving the price of the sealed boxes up, and is certainly in line with what is to be expected. Sealed sets are around $300 off the lows, and Mercanti 70s are around $300 off the lows. If you are talking about 69s, the proper comparison is not to a sealed set, but is to an open set, and each of those has moved around $100 off the lows. Again, the relative moves are perfectly in line. >>
Yup, you're right. Mercanti sets have moved up significantly in price on ebay. I recall lows in the $1100 - 1200 range during the flood, actually.
I think the graded set prices will continue to move up in relation to the sealed box sale prices, I think there is a lag time for set prices to go up vs. the sealed box prices.
I'm hoping for solid 2 grr PCGS 70 set sale prices. If 70 set prices moves are correlated to sealed box prices, than sealed boxes probably need to get to the $5500 - 6000 for 70 set to get close to 2 grrr. consistently.
I'm thinking Apr - May - June? >>
I agree with this. And I personally think the 70 sets (labels aside) will continue to slowly rise for probably another 3-6 months then level out somewhere...who knows where.
It's a chicken and egg type question! In this case, I'm pretty sure that the graded 70 sets are the driver of the sealed set price, not the other way around. I don't think sealed set prices determine what Mercanti 70s go for; the market decides that. Since the initial flood subsided, the market for the graded sets has been steadily marching higher for the past few weeks, causing dealers to bid ever higher for sealed sets in order to replace graded set inventory. That's why I think they have to move in line. Graded 69s are another story, however, since pretty much every coin that is not a 70 is a 69. They therefore do not, nor should they, carry a premium over raw, opened sets, other than whatever premium the "set" pedigree has for a non-key coin. As a result, I expect the price of 70 sets to determine the value of sealed sets, and the price of opened sets to determine the value of 69s. >>
Box of 20
When I made the statement about the talk about the mint making a reverse proof every year, I should have stated they are considering making a reverse proof every year.
I just took the survey a few minutes ago. Here it is.
The U.S. Mint may consider offering a special American Eagle Silver Coin Set in 2012. This would be a special set containing the following 1-ounce silver coins:
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Reverse Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set
This set will be the first in a series of annual special Silver coin sets that the U.S. Mint will begin producing once per year, beginning in 2012. The second installment (featuring additonal unique cons would be produced in 2013.
The U.S. Mint plans to manufacture 300,000 of these sets. Once these are sold, no additonal sets will be availble. There will be a pruchase limit of 2 sets per household. The price of this set will be appoximately $125.
They also had two more questions about the possible make up of additional sets, my guess in 2013 about a D minted burnished, regular bullion and ultra high relief in a 3 coin set.
Another question was directed about the household limits of 1, 2, 5 or 10 for such a set.
Just something all should consider if they are holding these 25th Anniversary sets, myself included. Though the S Reverse Proof will make it a unique type coin different from the 25th Anniversary set which is a P reverse.
I also left a comment advising against over saturating the ASE collector offerings. They also asked about doing a ultra high relief ASE Proof and I completely agreed that they should do so. Uniqueness is what I collect and I used the 2009 ultra high relief gold as an example. I think most collectors like to collect a coin that is unique.
Box of 20
Bunch of boloney if you ask me.
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only available in this special set
American Eagle Silver San Francisco Reverse Proof Coin bearing a S mint mark, only availlable in this special set
The U.S. Mint plans to manufacture 300,000 of these sets. Once these are sold, no additonal sets will be availble. There will be a purchase limit of 2 sets per household. The price of this set will be approximately $125. >>
So they might make a 26th Anniversary Set after all!
Seriously, I would expect all 300,000 sets to be sold at that price (unless the purchase limit crimps sales). These are proofs, which are much more popular than the mintmarked burnished coins. More than 800,000 2011-W proof silver eagles were sold, many at over $60 each. This set would guarantee a much lower mintage at essentially the same price per coin.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>am i correct in seeing the Mercanti FS 70's "Flag" sets down to $1700? >>
And based upon a quick look, it seems the Mercanti Signature FS 70's non-Flag have sold around $1500 with some nearing $1600. Think they will meet in the near future?
Me, personally ... I hope they do meet in the near future at $2,000.
Hey, we can all wish ... right?
Wondercoin