I don't buy the Pujols being older then 31 thing. He moved to the US at 16 and wasn't on the radar of any major league team at that time. So he wouldn't have any reason to lie to make himself look better. If he was drafted directly from the DR I would absolutely agree with him possibly being older. But it doesn't make sense to me now.
Chris My small collection Want List: '61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7 Cardinal T206 cards Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
just recently i was thinking about doing a Pujols Topps Base PSA run. Glad i never got around to it. Jeter and Ichiro may be the last legends to start and finish their HOF career with one organization.
Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Similar thought crossed my mind today... as a Cardinal fan, and one of the biggest Pujols PSA collectors... a little envious today of those Yankee fan/Jeter collectors!
I wouldn't lump Ichiro in there though. While he came into the MLB at the same time as Albert... he could very well be in the same position today as Albert, making a team switch for money... if it wasn't for the fact that his "career" started with a 9 year stint in Japanese professional baseball.
At the end of the day, I'll keep my Pujols RC set... and I'll keep going with his Topps run set and his Basic set. I'm a little down that today he threw away his Cardinal legacy, but the fact remains that with a few more good years of production (which I expect will be the case)... he's still going to go down as one of the best to ever play the game.
Although I'm an Angels fan, I really have to wonder about this signing. Five years ago sure, but he seems to have peaked and we already have Vernon Wells at a ridiculous amount. Plus where do you play Trumbo and Morales now?
<< <i>Although I'm an Angels fan, I really have to wonder about this signing. Five years ago sure, but he seems to have peaked and we already have Vernon Wells at a ridiculous amount. Plus where do you play Trumbo and Morales now? >>
I think Arte Moreno regrets not having a championship caliber team during the Dodgers decline. This year was a perfect opportunity for the Angels to steal fans from the Dodgers, but their team didn't win the division and had no big stars.
Fielder would have been the more prudent choice and would be at least $30-$50 mil cheaper, but with the large Latino fan base, Pujols will sell a ton of tickets.
'last out' Howard already has morphed into kingman, you, like others get fooled by the RBI total due to his lineup, and the era they play in.
I posted before that at a similar age that Howard is now, which includes Howard past three seasons, that Kingman had a similar Ops+ as Howard. I can post those for you tomorrow if you wish.
However, if you continue to use ignorance on the use of RBI as a measurement(by continuing to ignore the number of opportunities),or an ignorance of the context of the different era's, tell me now so I don't bother wasting my time.
Howard had another Kingman like season last year, which I believe is three out of the last four seasons that he has. Of course you are fooled by the lineup and inflated RBI totals.
Only thing Howard has on him right now is a couple of seasons that kinsman never came close to. If you look at Howard age the last three or four years, and compare that to kingmans years of a similar age(which is mostly his Cub) years, you will be surprised how close their OPS+ is.
The question YOU should be asking is if you are still on the Howard clutch bandwagon, LOL. LOL. I thought he 'knew' how to win. LOL, did he forget??
As a Rangers fan I'm excited for the Angels. Maybe they can get closer than 10 games out with Albert and CJ, LOL. Seriously though, should make for a more exciting AL West, and I'm going to welcome the opportunities to try and get Pujols autograph when they play in Texas.
I renewed my Rangers tickets two days ago, and moved to the lower deck behind the plate, so I'm seriously extra excited to get to see Pujols play now. I don't particularly care for him, but he has been the premier hitter in the game the past decade IMO and for AL baseball fans, it will be nice to get a chance to see a superstar play in our home parks that we haven't gotten to see much. Whether I love a player, or hate a player, I can appreciate talent, and he still has it. As the fan of an AL West team, it will also be fun watching that huge contract become a noose around the Angels necks in about 3 years.
<< <i>I don't buy the Pujols being older then 31 thing. He moved to the US at 16 and wasn't on the radar of any major league team at that time. So he wouldn't have any reason to lie to make himself look better. If he was drafted directly from the DR I would absolutely agree with him possibly being older. But it doesn't make sense to me now. >>
well I guess it depends on who you believe. It's all subjective regardless considering his family immigrated to the US before 2001 so he hasn't had to have his birth certificate re-verified like the Furcals and other Latin players who magically aged 2-4 years upon reapplying for their US work visas...or in the case of Jairo Garcia (Santiago Casilla) or Leo Nunez (Juan Carlos Oviedo) new names. There seem to be a lot of people within baseball that believe Albert came to the US at 12 initially and that the family spent more time in NYC (where he apparently never enrolled in school) than he and the family let on. According to Joe Posnanski questions/suspicions/Little League-esque ringer anger followed Pujols' alleged age even in high school. Of course if you believe the scouts around the time of the draft, many including the Rays (according to Jonah Keri's book, who held a personal workout with him), thought he was 3-4 years older than what his birth certificate stated. Had he been over 16 when he finally enrolled in school he would have had to go the GED route. So there was incentive to lie about his age...just like there apparently was incentive for him to lie about his age to his now wife. And if his MLB bio is to be believed, if he really was 16 when he arrived in MO, he enrolled in high school without speaking English and somehow was also academically eligible for the baseball team...so something doesn't quite add up there. Personally I lean towards the opinion of the scouts, and if he was hitting 450 FT HRs with that slash line in high school, in a heavily scouted area, he wouldn't have lasted to the 13th round when a signing bonus was of no issue. Clearly a large portion of the MLB teams weren't believers in his bio either.
Let's not forget Mariano Rivera being with the same team all the way through! Posada would have been but he's still clinging to thinking he can still be productive.
<< <i>Any of the hogwash such as when he says to "Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want." >>
If Pujols took a test and passed it, everyone would dismiss the passing result with "He must be using something we can't test for yet."
<< <i>When he says, "This baseball is nothing to me." >>
You really like to bust his balls over this statement, and it makes you sound just as crazy as Fandango, just on the opposite end of the "Pujols spectrum."
Hi guys! What's all this fuss about some Cardinals player joining the Angels?
I very much enjoyed watching the first 11 years of his career. I almost always stopped what I was doing and was glued to the TV when he came up to bat. He will be missed, but another era of Cardinals baseball has begun.
I would love nothing more than for the Cardinals to beat the stuffins out of the Angels in the World Series next year (even though the Angels are now my second favorite team and favorite American League team now).
<< <i>Any of the hogwash such as when he says to "Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want." >>
If Pujols took a test and passed it, everyone would dismiss the passing result with "He must be using something we can't test for yet."
<< <i>When he says, "This baseball is nothing to me." >>
You really like to bust his balls over this statement, and it makes you sound just as crazy as Fandango, just on the opposite end of the "Pujols spectrum." >>
Digicat,
He never took any tough test. He never took an opportunity to promote MLB have tough testing for everyone. He portrayed himself as a savior and to believe him...he annointed himself as a leader....yet did nothing to publicly prove he was clean.
If we were to get the IOC testing committee to publicly offer stringent testing to Pujols, AND to keep several samples of his blood so that they can catch the stuff that they aren't capable of catching yet....do you think Albert would agree to that? He said he would do it. He said, "anything."
Yes, I am busting his balls over that "This baseball is nothing." He is lying, it is NOT nothing to him. He is only saying that because he wants everyone to believe that he only cares about his relationship with Jesus, and that since baseball means nothing to him, that there is no point to take steroids to try to get an extra edge.
This does not make me the opposite of Fandango because I can see through his BS. THe fact that you too have the same blind faith in him puts you in the same realm as Fandango. Pujols is giving contradictory statements, and I am calling him on it. Calling you on it too because...maybe an ex-boyfriend?
<< <i>This does not make me the opposite of Fandango because I can see through his BS. THe fact that you too have the same blind faith in him puts you in the same realm as Fandango. Pujols is giving contradictory statements, and I am calling him on it. Calling you on it too because...maybe an ex-boyfriend? >>
You're just pissed that Pujols never called you back after your one-night-stand with him.
Here are some quotes from Pujols and the SI article:
-He has constantly denied using steroids. His reasoning has stayed consistent: "I fear God too much to do any stupid thing like that."
"There is something more important to me—my relationship with Jesus Christ and caring about others"
Really? Fears God for doing steroids? I didn't know the Bible said anything about doing steroids...but the bible and Jesus did say a lot about being against the following:
Materialism.......how many things does Albert own that is above and beyond what he needs for a comfortable life? How many cars does he have?
Seeking Wealth......hmmm, he sure went the extra mile to get an extra handful of million dollars. 200 million wasn't enough...he needed 254. Hmmmm.
Greed......Hmm, the teachings of Jesus are not to hold out for every extra possible penny you can get, when you already have many more pennies than you will ever need.
Using contraceptives.....Yeah, sounds stupid here...but if he fears God for doing Steroids...the Bible is also against the use of contraceptives. Unless he is the best ever in the Rhythm method, I think he uses them.
Lying....We know he lied about his age to get into a night club for people who were 21 or older, and who were sinning in there...and he lied to get into there. People say, yeah, but he was just a kid at age 18, kids make mistakes. But was he just a kid?? In the SI article he is portrayed as mature(emotionally) beyond his years, and he says how he had to grow up fast. So if that is indeed true, then it is not really a kid making a mistake. It is a well aware man making that flat out lie! There is simply NO sidestepping that lie!
Also, it is still quite possible that he has lived his life with a lie about his age.
Of course, his backers are going to say, "do you expect him to live in a shack, walk away from the millions?" No, and neither does the bible...but the bible is against the above, and those are all things he does or has done....yet he only fears God because of steroid use...so he won't do them, but he does those other key elements that the bible is against?
So, he can go against the bible on those ever important teachings, which would strain his ever important relationship with Jesus.......but he can't do steroids because he fears God, even though steroids aren't in the Bible?
Albert, really?
Or maybe he really does care about Jesus....but also cares about being the best player in baseball and making the most money he can.....which are great motives to indeed take part in PED use
(Yeah, I know, the steroid thing is a form of cheating, and that is in there)
<< <i>Saberman's got the fury of a jilted lover when it comes to A-Poo. >>
Nope, just can smell BS a mile away.
If you recall, when I was involved in the debates between Pujols and the Howard backers....I was full bore everything Pujols, as I was arguing objectively against insanely biased and ignorant Ryan 'last out' Howard backers.
I have no beef on Pujols at all. He is just full of chit as noted above.
What difference does it make what Pujols says about steroids or performance enhancing drugs? Do his words or alledged words cause him to hit the ball any better or affect his play on the field? He might be the most honest man on the planet, and then again, he might be the biggest hypocrite (realistically I'd bet he falls somewhere in the middle), but what does that matter one iota? He's a baseball player, not a wise sage, or a philosopher, or a teacher, nor some great moral or spiritual leader. It wasn't court testimony and it wasn't under oath like Clemens. He can say whatever the heck he pleases. I'd be willing to bet that neither news publications, nor sports publications such as SI, report exactly what he said anyway. This might be a severe overgeneralization, but if you've never had media coverage on yourself, then you tend to believe a whole lot of what they print or say when they are "reporting". However, if you've ever been the subject of media coverage of any reasonable size or number of occurrences, you will find VERY quickly that they rarely report accurately what you have said.
To me personally I don't care what he says or believes. This is just part of my hobby. I just find it humorous how his legions blindly follow him, and believe him like he is the gospel. He is indeed contradictory.
He always represents himself as thouse quotes in the article say. SOme of the Pujols backers personally claim he does as well...so yeah, those quotes are a pretty accurate portrayal of what he say(or shows) publicly.
I do, or did, care about following MLB....and he is part of the culture of liars that has dampened the enjoyment of the game for me and a legion of others.
I don't have to rehash the BS he has spewed and his full of chit rationale for why he would never do steroids.
Understood . It just seems like the dude is a lightning rod for love or hate. Kinda like that QB for Denver. Seems like every thread on the guy gets turned into a debate on things other than his baseball skill or lack of. But you know what? I still read them for the entertainment value LOL. Just would be a novelty to see a Pujols thread that only talked about baseball play.
I am one of those Pujols backers... but I'm also one that has consistently believe that his God-speak is crap!
You can have it both ways! I've never really respected the man, but I respect the heck out of the player... what he has accomplished on the field. You see, he's just an athlete... not a savior. He provides me joyful entertainment as an athlete, a sense of competitive pride and respect that I dig! I look up to people like my parents, my grandparents, folks I see doing good deeds daily, etc... not professional athletes I don't have a personal connection with.
I value my sanity! Which is why you won't see me trolling message boards... looking to encite conflict with people that don't share my views, or those that choose to challenge my stance... all because I have factually deprived notions and beliefs about someone I don't even know on a truly personal level. That's not fandom... that's not even standing up for your beliefs... that's just bordering on schizophrenia.
Stop the hate people... it's just baseball... have a beer and relax
1. He's older than he says he is. 2. He looks like he takes HGH 3. He decided not to play for the same team his entire career
The evidence is
1. He looks like it 2. His amazing numbers year after year 3. He signed for 250 Million and not 199 million
My personal opinion
1. Does it matter as long as he puts up the numbers he does? Not many HOF's ended their careers with great numbers or they would have continued. 2. There is something called genetics, I've talked to many people that watch him play in high school, he was big then too. (Sure, the age question comes into play, but were not talking 10+years if that's indeed the truth) 3. Let's see, would you go to a company offering $250,000 or $190,000?
Finally, he left the Cardinals with two world series championships. IMO, he can walk away with a smile on his face and enjoy the California weather. Last but not least, DAMN! I've got a job that requires me to move to North Carolina next year!!!!!!!
I dislike the BS smoke screen he is using as his defense for taking PED's.
I'm not going to rewrite what I wrote above, but he says he doesn't take them because he fears God. He says that his relationship to Jesus is what matters, and he says that baseball means nothing to him.
He fears God for taking steroids?
Does he not fear him for:
Greed Materialism Using Contraceptives Seeking Wealth Lying
?? Because he certainly partakes in those things that go against the word of God and are of contradiction to Jesus. So why are we to believe that he wouldn't also partake in using steroids that he feels would make God angry...even though the Bible doesn't talk about steroids?
He simply tried to remove the same motivation that all other baseball players have had for PED use....the motive to be the best and to make a ton of money. Problem for him is, those things DO matter to him, and his defense that taking PED's is against God is BS, because he does plenty of important stuff that the Bible is against, stuff more important to the Bible than taking steroids to play a game.
I truly believe he loves God and Jesus and like he says. I also truly believe that it is indeed very important to him to make a ton of money and be viewed as the best...and that he has the same motives as all the other MLB players to partake in the use of PED's...even though he is trying to convince us he does not by using the veil of religion.
Also remember, MLB is a culture of liars when it comes to the issue of PED use...he is no different. The surprising thing to me is how ANY of you guys believe a single word out of the mouths of the players union and the ownership, when it comes to the PED topic. THe one consistent thing in all of that, is that they all lied and continue to. Tony Larussa is front and center in that whole circus too by the way.
PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started.
I am just sad that as a Cardinal fan I will never hear a double play that starts with prospects Cox (3B) to Wong (2B) to Pujols.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I am just sad that as a Cardinal fan I will never hear a double play that starts with prospects Cox (3B) to Wong (2B) to Pujols. >>
On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons!
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
But who wants to play for the St. Louis Browns, eh I mean Marlins? They're like the team hardly anyone cares about. Just like the Los Angeles Clippers.
What I find amusing is listening to so many Cardinals fans and reading their comments. It goes pretty much like this: "Albert Pujols sucks for leaving us. He should have spent his entire career with one organization. We loved him so much and treated him so well. Let's hope we can sign Prince Fielder."
<< <i>PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started. >>
My sons in 4th grade, 5'0 140 lbs, does 50 pushups(at once) and is a two way starter as an offensive and defensive tackle on his football team......I better check his cereal.
As for his religious beliefs and using them to describe what he does in life, so be it.
<< <i>On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons! >>
<< <i>PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started. >>
My sons in 4th grade, 5'0 140 lbs, does 50 pushups(at once) and is a two way starter as an offensive and defensive tackle on his football team......I better check his cereal.
As for his religious beliefs and using them to describe what he does in life, so be it.
<< <i>On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons! >>
He sure came through in the World Series! >>
Toro, I guess the post about his religion went over your head. He isn't being genuine in his use of religion and his statements as they pertain to steroids. He is also lying.
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
Do 85% of your son's 4th grade peers take steroids because they are pro prospects? Does your son find himself currently on the cusp of making 100 million dollars? Did your son appear in the U.S. after spending the first 12 years or so of his life unaccounted for by the U.S? Is your son good enough right now where he could get drafted without steroids, but where a little more boost would ensure he gets drafted, and more so position himself for millions of dollars???
Does your son use the veil of religion, and have his actions contradict his words of religious value, in order to 'prove' that he doesn't do steroids?
Your son is not comparable...way too many major differences.
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
Probably the fact that the Marlins wouldn't give him a no-trade clause.
Are you assuming he's an orthodox Catholic or a Mormon? Birth control isn't taboo in the Protestant branch.
Also, on the whole lying about his age to get into the club part you like to hammer, according to his own statements, he took to his whole faith thing AFTER he met is future wife in that club. Apparently she's the one who got him into it.
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense?
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense? >>
A wee bit hyperbolic, dontcha think??? I get that you think he's a fraud, but your analogies just don't hold up well.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
Probably the fact that the Marlins wouldn't give him a no-trade clause. >>
The Marlins beat writer just confirmed that there was not a $275M offer on the table from the Marlins. In fact, their final offer was $201M.
So, yeah, I'm guessing money had a lot to do with Albert going to the Angels. After all, every time a bell cha-chings, a slugger gets his wings.
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense? >>
A wee bit hyperbolic, dontcha think??? I get that you think he's a fraud, but your analogies just don't hold up well. >>
Hyperbolic, maybe. But the analogy is just fine....Substitute using the Lord's name in vein and adultry/coveting thy neighbors wife, with greed, materialism, and seeking wealth. THen, substitute stealing in my example with steroids, and you have a pretty good parallel to Albert.
Unless you view taking steroids a much greater 'sin' than greed and materialism, my analogy is spot on. Actually, I would view it as a lesser offense.
Digicat, yes, he does lie! He said baseball means "NOTHING" to him. You can spin it by saying I am taking it too literal, but "nothing" is a pretty strong word with little interpretation. His actions say otherwise....so he is lying. It is a BS smokescreen to make everyone think he has no motive to take steroids. I would say there are 254 million reasons that say otherwise
<< <i>Digicat, yes, he does lie! He said baseball means "NOTHING" to him. You can spin it by saying I am taking it too literal, but "nothing" is a pretty strong word with little interpretation. His actions say otherwise....so he is lying. >>
Whatever. Just stop using the "lied about his age to get into a night club" thing in your argument. It was uninformed and ignorant.
<< <i>Sorrry man...try not to latch onto these heroes so hard...you would have an easier time without blinders. >>
Pujols isn't my hero. I don't give a rip about anyone not wearing SF orange and black. While I'll give free commentary about the goings on in league, I don't have anything invested in this guy.
You have a few good arguments, but then you mix in crack-pot ones. Put them together, and you sound completely silly.
Kinda like the Republicans who don't like Obama, and follow up their valid points with the whole birth certificate thing. They get dismissed as nut-jobs, and rightfully so.
<< <i>PS, the nightclub thing is not needed to bolster the argument. We already know he lied more recently. >>
Comments
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
<< <i>
<< <i>He is one rich liar >>
Just so I can be clear, are you talking about his age, PED use, something else, or a blanket "everything that comes out of his mouth"? >>
Any of the hogwash such as when he says to "Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want."
When he says, "This baseball is nothing to me."
You may believe that he doesn't do steroids because he loves(or fears) Jesus and that baseball means nothing to him. I don't.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
I wouldn't lump Ichiro in there though. While he came into the MLB at the same time as Albert... he could very well be in the same position today as Albert, making a team switch for money... if it wasn't for the fact that his "career" started with a 9 year stint in Japanese professional baseball.
At the end of the day, I'll keep my Pujols RC set... and I'll keep going with his Topps run set and his Basic set. I'm a little down that today he threw away his Cardinal legacy, but the fact remains that with a few more good years of production (which I expect will be the case)... he's still going to go down as one of the best to ever play the game.
<< <i>Jeter and Ichiro may be the last legends to start and finish their HOF career with one organization. >>
Hopefully there's another name on that list:
Before or after Howard?
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>Although I'm an Angels fan, I really have to wonder about this signing. Five years ago sure, but he seems to have peaked and we already have Vernon Wells at a ridiculous amount. Plus where do you play Trumbo and Morales now? >>
I think Arte Moreno regrets not having a championship caliber team during the Dodgers decline. This year was a perfect opportunity for the Angels to steal fans from the Dodgers, but their team didn't win the division and had no big stars.
Fielder would have been the more prudent choice and would be at least $30-$50 mil cheaper, but with the large Latino fan base, Pujols will sell a ton of tickets.
<< <i> Jeter and Ichiro may be the last legends to start and finish their HOF career with one organization. >>
Chipper Jones.
(hopefully HOF)
<< <i>Skip, when will he morph into Kingman?
Before or after Howard?
'last out' Howard already has morphed into kingman, you, like others get fooled by the RBI total due to his lineup, and the era they play in.
I posted before that at a similar age that Howard is now, which includes Howard past three seasons, that Kingman had a similar Ops+ as Howard. I can post those for you tomorrow if you wish.
However, if you continue to use ignorance on the use of RBI as a measurement(by continuing to ignore the number of opportunities),or an ignorance of the context of the different era's, tell me now so I don't bother wasting my time.
Howard had another Kingman like season last year, which I believe is three out of the last four seasons that he has. Of course you are fooled by the lineup and inflated RBI totals.
Only thing Howard has on him right now is a couple of seasons that kinsman never came close to. If you look at Howard age the last three or four years, and compare that to kingmans years of a similar age(which is mostly his Cub) years, you will be surprised how close their OPS+ is.
The question YOU should be asking is if you are still on the Howard clutch bandwagon, LOL. LOL. I thought he 'knew' how to win. LOL, did he forget??
I renewed my Rangers tickets two days ago, and moved to the lower deck behind the plate, so I'm seriously extra excited to get to see Pujols play now. I don't particularly care for him, but he has been the premier hitter in the game the past decade IMO and for AL baseball fans, it will be nice to get a chance to see a superstar play in our home parks that we haven't gotten to see much. Whether I love a player, or hate a player, I can appreciate talent, and he still has it. As the fan of an AL West team, it will also be fun watching that huge contract become a noose around the Angels necks in about 3 years.
Mike
<< <i>I don't buy the Pujols being older then 31 thing. He moved to the US at 16 and wasn't on the radar of any major league team at that time. So he wouldn't have any reason to lie to make himself look better. If he was drafted directly from the DR I would absolutely agree with him possibly being older. But it doesn't make sense to me now. >>
well I guess it depends on who you believe. It's all subjective regardless considering his family immigrated to the US before 2001 so he hasn't had to have his birth certificate re-verified like the Furcals and other Latin players who magically aged 2-4 years upon reapplying for their US work visas...or in the case of Jairo Garcia (Santiago Casilla) or Leo Nunez (Juan Carlos Oviedo) new names. There seem to be a lot of people within baseball that believe Albert came to the US at 12 initially and that the family spent more time in NYC (where he apparently never enrolled in school) than he and the family let on. According to Joe Posnanski questions/suspicions/Little League-esque ringer anger followed Pujols' alleged age even in high school. Of course if you believe the scouts around the time of the draft, many including the Rays (according to Jonah Keri's book, who held a personal workout with him), thought he was 3-4 years older than what his birth certificate stated. Had he been over 16 when he finally enrolled in school he would have had to go the GED route. So there was incentive to lie about his age...just like there apparently was incentive for him to lie about his age to his now wife. And if his MLB bio is to be believed, if he really was 16 when he arrived in MO, he enrolled in high school without speaking English and somehow was also academically eligible for the baseball team...so something doesn't quite add up there. Personally I lean towards the opinion of the scouts, and if he was hitting 450 FT HRs with that slash line in high school, in a heavily scouted area, he wouldn't have lasted to the 13th round when a signing bonus was of no issue. Clearly a large portion of the MLB teams weren't believers in his bio either.
<< <i>Any of the hogwash such as when he says to "Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want." >>
If Pujols took a test and passed it, everyone would dismiss the passing result with "He must be using something we can't test for yet."
<< <i>When he says, "This baseball is nothing to me." >>
You really like to bust his balls over this statement, and it makes you sound just as crazy as Fandango, just on the opposite end of the "Pujols spectrum."
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
I very much enjoyed watching the first 11 years of his career. I almost always stopped what I was doing and was glued to the TV when he came up to bat. He will be missed, but another era of Cardinals baseball has begun.
I would love nothing more than for the Cardinals to beat the stuffins out of the Angels in the World Series next year (even though the Angels are now my second favorite team and favorite American League team now).
Shane
He was gone the minute STL didn't lock him up a year ago.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>
<< <i>Any of the hogwash such as when he says to "Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want." >>
If Pujols took a test and passed it, everyone would dismiss the passing result with "He must be using something we can't test for yet."
<< <i>When he says, "This baseball is nothing to me." >>
You really like to bust his balls over this statement, and it makes you sound just as crazy as Fandango, just on the opposite end of the "Pujols spectrum." >>
Digicat,
He never took any tough test. He never took an opportunity to promote MLB have tough testing for everyone. He portrayed himself as a savior and to believe him...he annointed himself as a leader....yet did nothing to publicly prove he was clean.
If we were to get the IOC testing committee to publicly offer stringent testing to Pujols, AND to keep several samples of his blood so that they can catch the stuff that they aren't capable of catching yet....do you think Albert would agree to that? He said he would do it. He said, "anything."
Yes, I am busting his balls over that "This baseball is nothing." He is lying, it is NOT nothing to him. He is only saying that because he wants everyone to believe that he only cares about his relationship with Jesus, and that since baseball means nothing to him, that there is no point to take steroids to try to get an extra edge.
This does not make me the opposite of Fandango because I can see through his BS. THe fact that you too have the same blind faith in him puts you in the same realm as Fandango. Pujols is giving contradictory statements, and I am calling him on it. Calling you on it too because...maybe an ex-boyfriend?
<< <i>This does not make me the opposite of Fandango because I can see through his BS. THe fact that you too have the same blind faith in him puts you in the same realm as Fandango. Pujols is giving contradictory statements, and I am calling him on it. Calling you on it too because...maybe an ex-boyfriend? >>
You're just pissed that Pujols never called you back after your one-night-stand with him.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
-He has constantly denied using steroids. His reasoning has stayed consistent: "I fear God too much to do any stupid thing like that."
"There is something more important to me—my relationship with Jesus Christ and caring about others"
Really? Fears God for doing steroids? I didn't know the Bible said anything about doing steroids...but the bible and Jesus did say a lot about being against the following:
Materialism.......how many things does Albert own that is above and beyond what he needs for a comfortable life? How many cars does he have?
Seeking Wealth......hmmm, he sure went the extra mile to get an extra handful of million dollars. 200 million wasn't enough...he needed 254. Hmmmm.
Greed......Hmm, the teachings of Jesus are not to hold out for every extra possible penny you can get, when you already have many more pennies than you will ever need.
Using contraceptives.....Yeah, sounds stupid here...but if he fears God for doing Steroids...the Bible is also against the use of contraceptives. Unless he is the best ever in the Rhythm method, I think he uses them.
Lying....We know he lied about his age to get into a night club for people who were 21 or older, and who were sinning in there...and he lied to get into there. People say, yeah, but he was just a kid at age 18, kids make mistakes. But was he just a kid?? In the SI article he is portrayed as mature(emotionally) beyond his years, and he says how he had to grow up fast. So if that is indeed true, then it is not really a kid making a mistake. It is a well aware man making that flat out lie! There is simply NO sidestepping that lie!
Also, it is still quite possible that he has lived his life with a lie about his age.
Of course, his backers are going to say, "do you expect him to live in a shack, walk away from the millions?" No, and neither does the bible...but the bible is against the above, and those are all things he does or has done....yet he only fears God because of steroid use...so he won't do them, but he does those other key elements that the bible is against?
So, he can go against the bible on those ever important teachings, which would strain his ever important relationship with Jesus.......but he can't do steroids because he fears God, even though steroids aren't in the Bible?
Albert, really?
Or maybe he really does care about Jesus....but also cares about being the best player in baseball and making the most money he can.....which are great motives to indeed take part in PED use
(Yeah, I know, the steroid thing is a form of cheating, and that is in there)
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Saberman's got the fury of a jilted lover when it comes to A-Poo. >>
Nope, just can smell BS a mile away.
If you recall, when I was involved in the debates between Pujols and the Howard backers....I was full bore everything Pujols, as I was arguing objectively against insanely biased and ignorant Ryan 'last out' Howard backers.
I have no beef on Pujols at all. He is just full of chit as noted above.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Hey, leave Howard alone. He's got a special place in the hearts of Giants fans everywhere.
Yikes!
If SteveK were still around here...LOL! Clutch city my arse!
To me personally I don't care what he says or believes. This is just part of my hobby. I just find it humorous how his legions blindly follow him, and believe him like he is the gospel. He is indeed contradictory.
He always represents himself as thouse quotes in the article say. SOme of the Pujols backers personally claim he does as well...so yeah, those quotes are a pretty accurate portrayal of what he say(or shows) publicly.
I do, or did, care about following MLB....and he is part of the culture of liars that has dampened the enjoyment of the game for me and a legion of others.
I don't have to rehash the BS he has spewed and his full of chit rationale for why he would never do steroids.
Understood . It just seems like the dude is a lightning rod for love or hate. Kinda like that QB for Denver. Seems like every thread on the guy gets turned into a debate on things other than his baseball skill or lack of. But you know what? I still read them for the entertainment value LOL. Just would be a novelty to see a Pujols thread that only talked about baseball play.
Mike
"Molon Labe"
You can have it both ways! I've never really respected the man, but I respect the heck out of the player... what he has accomplished on the field. You see, he's just an athlete... not a savior. He provides me joyful entertainment as an athlete, a sense of competitive pride and respect that I dig! I look up to people like my parents, my grandparents, folks I see doing good deeds daily, etc... not professional athletes I don't have a personal connection with.
I value my sanity! Which is why you won't see me trolling message boards... looking to encite conflict with people that don't share my views, or those that choose to challenge my stance... all because I have factually deprived notions and beliefs about someone I don't even know on a truly personal level. That's not fandom... that's not even standing up for your beliefs... that's just bordering on schizophrenia.
Stop the hate people... it's just baseball... have a beer and relax
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
1. He's older than he says he is.
2. He looks like he takes HGH
3. He decided not to play for the same team his entire career
The evidence is
1. He looks like it
2. His amazing numbers year after year
3. He signed for 250 Million and not 199 million
My personal opinion
1. Does it matter as long as he puts up the numbers he does? Not many HOF's ended their careers with great numbers or they would have continued.
2. There is something called genetics, I've talked to many people that watch him play in high school, he was big then too. (Sure, the age question comes into play, but were not talking 10+years if that's indeed the truth)
3. Let's see, would you go to a company offering $250,000 or $190,000?
Finally, he left the Cardinals with two world series championships. IMO, he can walk away with a smile on his face and enjoy the California weather. Last but not least, DAMN! I've got a job that requires me to move to North Carolina next year!!!!!!!
<< <i>3. Let's see, would you go to a company offering $250,000 or $190,000? >>
Which ever one wants me to start immediately!
No, not at all.
I dislike the BS smoke screen he is using as his defense for taking PED's.
I'm not going to rewrite what I wrote above, but he says he doesn't take them because he fears God. He says that his relationship to Jesus is what matters, and he says that baseball means nothing to him.
He fears God for taking steroids?
Does he not fear him for:
Greed
Materialism
Using Contraceptives
Seeking Wealth
Lying
?? Because he certainly partakes in those things that go against the word of God and are of contradiction to Jesus. So why are we to believe that he wouldn't also partake in using steroids that he feels would make God angry...even though the Bible doesn't talk about steroids?
He simply tried to remove the same motivation that all other baseball players have had for PED use....the motive to be the best and to make a ton of money. Problem for him is, those things DO matter to him, and his defense that taking PED's is against God is BS, because he does plenty of important stuff that the Bible is against, stuff more important to the Bible than taking steroids to play a game.
I truly believe he loves God and Jesus and like he says. I also truly believe that it is indeed very important to him to make a ton of money and be viewed as the best...and that he has the same motives as all the other MLB players to partake in the use of PED's...even though he is trying to convince us he does not by using the veil of religion.
Also remember, MLB is a culture of liars when it comes to the issue of PED use...he is no different. The surprising thing to me is how ANY of you guys believe a single word out of the mouths of the players union and the ownership, when it comes to the PED topic. THe one consistent thing in all of that, is that they all lied and continue to. Tony Larussa is front and center in that whole circus too by the way.
PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I am just sad that as a Cardinal fan I will never hear a double play that starts with prospects Cox (3B) to Wong (2B) to Pujols. >>
On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons!
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
But who wants to play for the St. Louis Browns, eh I mean Marlins? They're like the team hardly anyone cares about.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
I am having some "Prince Albert" cards made using this artwork. Should have them next week. I will give away one to one of my Facebook "fans".
www.facebook.com/EbbetsTradingCards
-Jason
That's the pot calling the kettle black.
<< <i>PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started. >>
My sons in 4th grade, 5'0 140 lbs, does 50 pushups(at once) and is a two way starter as an offensive and defensive tackle on his football team......I better check his cereal.
As for his religious beliefs and using them to describe what he does in life, so be it.
<< <i>On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons! >>
He sure came through in the World Series!
<< <i>
<< <i>PS, be was big in High School too, because that is when PED use started. >>
My sons in 4th grade, 5'0 140 lbs, does 50 pushups(at once) and is a two way starter as an offensive and defensive tackle on his football team......I better check his cereal.
As for his religious beliefs and using them to describe what he does in life, so be it.
<< <i>On the bright side, we won't have to hear anymore that Pujols grounded into a double play, down by a run, with runners in scoring position either! That was getting a little frustrating the last two seasons! >>
He sure came through in the World Series! >>
Toro, I guess the post about his religion went over your head. He isn't being genuine in his use of religion and his statements as they pertain to steroids. He is also lying.
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
Do 85% of your son's 4th grade peers take steroids because they are pro prospects? Does your son find himself currently on the cusp of making 100 million dollars? Did your son appear in the U.S. after spending the first 12 years or so of his life unaccounted for by the U.S? Is your son good enough right now where he could get drafted without steroids, but where a little more boost would ensure he gets drafted, and more so position himself for millions of dollars???
Does your son use the veil of religion, and have his actions contradict his words of religious value, in order to 'prove' that he doesn't do steroids?
Your son is not comparable...way too many major differences.
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
Probably the fact that the Marlins wouldn't give him a no-trade clause.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Does he not fear him for:
... Using Contraceptives
>>
Are you assuming he's an orthodox Catholic or a Mormon? Birth control isn't taboo in the Protestant branch.
Also, on the whole lying about his age to get into the club part you like to hammer, according to his own statements, he took to his whole faith thing AFTER he met is future wife in that club. Apparently she's the one who got him into it.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>
<< <i>
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense? >>
A wee bit hyperbolic, dontcha think??? I get that you think he's a fraud, but your analogies just don't hold up well.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>
<< <i>I think their are intangibles that allured Albert to the Angels. If true that the Marlins offered more money and you can add the lower tax rate in Florida there must be other reasons for going to LA. >>
Probably the fact that the Marlins wouldn't give him a no-trade clause. >>
The Marlins beat writer just confirmed that there was not a $275M offer on the table from the Marlins. In fact, their final offer was $201M.
So, yeah, I'm guessing money had a lot to do with Albert going to the Angels. After all, every time a bell cha-chings, a slugger gets his wings.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
He dabbles in many things that the Bible and Jesus are against...but he won't take steroids because he fears God and values his relationship with Jesus? Really? I see you buy into it. I see right through it.
>>
I, for one, do not directly correlate one's belief in God with a literal interpretation of the Bible. IOW, one can fear God without adhering to a particular given translation of His word. >>
So if a guy is using the Lord's name in vein as he bangs his neighbors wife.........then gets accused of stealing something; and he uses as his defense that he values his relationship with Jesus too much, and says that he fears God too much to break one of the ten commandments, so therefore he could never steal, then you would buy that defense? >>
A wee bit hyperbolic, dontcha think??? I get that you think he's a fraud, but your analogies just don't hold up well. >>
Hyperbolic, maybe. But the analogy is just fine....Substitute using the Lord's name in vein and adultry/coveting thy neighbors wife, with greed, materialism, and seeking wealth.
THen, substitute stealing in my example with steroids, and you have a pretty good parallel to Albert.
Unless you view taking steroids a much greater 'sin' than greed and materialism, my analogy is spot on. Actually, I would view it as a lesser offense.
Digicat, yes, he does lie! He said baseball means "NOTHING" to him. You can spin it by saying I am taking it too literal, but "nothing" is a pretty strong word with little interpretation. His actions say otherwise....so he is lying. It is a BS smokescreen to make everyone think he has no motive to take steroids. I would say there are 254 million reasons that say otherwise
<< <i>Digicat, yes, he does lie! He said baseball means "NOTHING" to him. You can spin it by saying I am taking it too literal, but "nothing" is a pretty strong word with little interpretation. His actions say otherwise....so he is lying. >>
Whatever. Just stop using the "lied about his age to get into a night club" thing in your argument. It was uninformed and ignorant.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
PS, the nightclub thing is not needed to bolster the argument. We already know he lied more recently.
<< <i>Sorrry man...try not to latch onto these heroes so hard...you would have an easier time without blinders. >>
Pujols isn't my hero. I don't give a rip about anyone not wearing SF orange and black. While I'll give free commentary about the goings on in league, I don't have anything invested in this guy.
You have a few good arguments, but then you mix in crack-pot ones. Put them together, and you sound completely silly.
Kinda like the Republicans who don't like Obama, and follow up their valid points with the whole birth certificate thing. They get dismissed as nut-jobs, and rightfully so.
<< <i>PS, the nightclub thing is not needed to bolster the argument. We already know he lied more recently. >>
Then why do you keep bringing it up?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25