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Bust dime question. Update with pics!
Billet7
Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
I was inspecting a high end dime yesterday. It was very nice, possibly in the 64 range, but raw. I was very impressed with the condition and the look of the coin, an 1832. One thing that caused pause was a mark on the cheek. It appeared to have a very small quantity of die corrosion on the cheek. Is there a variety that has this phenomenon?
Here are pics that I took today...I have to run right now, but I will come back in an hour or so and let you know what I think, grade...condition...variety etc.
Here are pics that I took today...I have to run right now, but I will come back in an hour or so and let you know what I think, grade...condition...variety etc.
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<< <i>The EUSD does not describe such a condition on any of their varieties but that doesn't mean their can't be a mint made flaw on the bust. Buy it and take a pic.
Interestingly enough my 1832 JR-3 has a lamination on the check or near it, in fact it has multiple laminations or other planchet defects all over it:
A nice reverse cud too!
<< <i>The EUSD does not describe such a condition on any of their varieties but that doesn't mean their can't be a mint made flaw on the bust. Buy it and take a pic.
Interestingly enough my 1832 JR-3 has a lamination on the check or near it, in fact it has multiple laminations or other planchet defects all over it:
Perhaps it is lamination, but as opposed to being a depression, it appears to be raised. The coin also has a crack on the second arrowhead like we see in yours, nowhere near as pronounced, but still there.
What would you expect a mint state example to sell for? It appears to be a very nice, problem free example. Probably 63 or 64.
I thought yours was a depression, but looking at it again it looks raised. I assume yours has a flake that has become raised rather than a missing piece?
By the way, I really like the coin you posted.
Laminations are not common on Bust Dimes, but they are probably the most common planchet defect encountered on Bust Dimes; I've owned and still own
some quite dramatic examples - one that sticks out is an 1836 Dime I bought from a board member where the whole obverse has a textured surface where
an extremely thin lamination was flaked off! It makes it look like some elements of the coin are raised, but I can't say if this is the same with your coin!
If the price is right, just buy it and show us
I'm sure there's a return policy. Give it a shot?
Lance.
A pretty bland looking coin, but not a bad look either
I too believe it to be a JR5, but my dime book says the highest one on record is an AU55, and that the coin is uncommon in high grades...so would this be considered condition census? I don't have updated information, just what the Bust Dime book says. Additionally it doesn't mention the die rust on liberty's cheek, and I believe it to be die rust...anyone think otherwise? Makes sense owing to the fact that the coin has die rust elsewhere as well (over the E on the cap.)
Almost looks like liberty is crying.
Only someone who is uninformed, or is a fool, gives anything away in this business. If a coin of this era and grade is raw, there's a good reason for it. If in fact I'm right about the coin, that's another reason why the price 'appears' to be reasonable.
If I was an EAC guy and had seen enough of a particular series of old copper in particular grades, I might buy a raw Unc. old copper coin from another EAC guy. As this is the case, I would not spend $1,000 plus on a raw coin under any circumstances. I was around in and remember the "bad old days."
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
The EUSD is OLD and should be treated as heavily outdated. The die cracks through the cap and through Star 12 to the lower hair curls are common
for this die marriage. I still don't think that what we are seeing on Liberty's cheek is die rust, and rather just impact marks which raised the metal
slightly. But I will say that there could be die rust in the cap, just above the E in LIBERTY - it's difficult to tell from the image.
I would say that the purchase price is too high and risky to make the purchase. If you pay the dealer to submit the coin and come to an agreement
that if the coin grades at least, say MS-63 you will purchase the coin for $1,300. But otherwise it's a raw coin and could come back AU-58 from some
old friction
Lance.
<< <i>As for adice, this is an R-2 so it is common. We confirmed that their should be die rust above the E on the obv, but what you see on the cheek are big hits imho and therefore it should be a reason to pass on this one. I would rather see you buy a slabbed bust dime in MS or a raw one on ebay in lower grade and saving and consequently saving money. This coin looks to have issues with the hits and that toning spot near the rim. Like a member said the ebay seller should have slabbed it if it was slabable otherwise he would be leaving money on the table, but passing the risk to you at a this price level is very very risky business for you imho. >>
Solid advise, I appreciate all the comments. I already decided to pass on the coin, which is why this isn't a thread that says "LOOK WHAT I GOT!!!" It's too bad, the coin looks very nice, and has a nicer look than the pics would indicate, but I'm just not willing to chance the grade. I think it's a strong price for a raw 63 (if that's what it is) and WAY overpriced for anything less.
More than anything else I was interested in finding out more about high grade JR-5's as well as any info about the area in question (the cheek.) I spent some real time looking this coin over, and I am convinced that if the area on the cap is die rust, then the area on the cheek is as well. The characteristics are exactly the same. The area is not depressed, it is raised. Stone raises an interesting idea about being raised marks from die impact.