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1908 motto $20...fake?

stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
i hate to be the ebay police, but does this look fake to you? the slab just doesn't look right and the coin looks polished. what do you think?

ebay link

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    I don't think these images are good enough for any evaluation.
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't know...the back of the slab is really suspicious to me...even with those lousy images. look at the corners of the reverse of the slab...also, look at the back of the label. use the zoom function. maybe i'm wrong, but it looks a lot like the images i have seen of the fake chinese slabs.
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    coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Be careful not to leave it out in the sun, the chocolate might melt!




    -Paul
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    I don't know fake slabs, but isn't this essentially a bullion coin in AU58, I don't see the point.

    The certification number verifies too.
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah, i don't see why it would be in a fake slab either, if that's what you mean. it's worth a slight premium over bullion though...if it's not cleaned.

    anyway, i was just trying to point out that slab looks really suspicious to me and i was hoping for some more dialog about diagnostics on fake slabs. these fakes hurt our hobby and we need to be educated on them. that was my point with this post. but, i guess what i am hearing is that it doesn't matter.

    so, therefore, in my infinite wisdom, i officially declare this slab fake and this thread is over. thank you, move along. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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    coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>yeah, i don't see why it would be in a fake slab either, if that's what you mean. it's worth a slight premium over bullion though...if it's not cleaned.

    anyway, i was just trying to point out that slab looks really suspicious to me and i was hoping for some more dialog about diagnostics on fake slabs. these fakes hurt our hobby and we need to be educated on them. that was my point with this post. but, i guess what i am hearing is that it doesn't matter.

    so, therefore, in my infinite wisdom, i officially declare this slab fake and this thread is over. thank you, move along. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. >>



    Like I said, watch out for melting chocolate. That coin looks TERRIBLE. It's not even gold, I'm sure. Your statement is exactly what the counterfeiters want you to say. "Oh, who would counterfeit that, it must be real!"


    Want proof? Here's the REAL coin in the REAL slab.


    Actual Coin



    -Paul
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    Cert. #13445540 comes up this


    Auction Appearances of This Coin
    Date Price Firm Sale Notes
    10/2/2007 $863.00 Heritage 2007 September Long Beach, CA US Coin Final Session #447


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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah, but don't the cert's almost always come up on fake slabs?
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    coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>yeah, but don't the cert's almost always come up on fake slabs? >>



    Yes, but look at the coin, not just the holder. Those surfaces look granular and terrible. Also, go to the link I provided and look at both the coin and the holder. Neither are the same.




    -Paul
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    here's what i see wrong with the slab:

    1. the corners of the raised part of the slab on the reverse are square, not rounded
    2. the label on the reverse overlaps the label area on the slab
    3. the label on the reverse doesn't look right. it looks green while the obverse is white
    4. there's no hole in the label. pcgs labels are stickers that are folded over. the reverse has a hole in it that can be seen on the obverse after it's folded over. the counterfeits don't appear to have this hole in the label. you can see what i am talking about here:

    image

    observe the darker circular shaped area under the word eagle to the left of pcgs.

    5. the slab has those open spots on each side about half way down (see photo of fake slab here to see what i am talking about)
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,667 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>yeah, but don't the cert's almost always come up on fake slabs? >>



    Yes, but look at the coin, not just the holder. Those surfaces look granular and terrible. Also, go to the link I provided and look at both the coin and the holder. Neither are the same.




    -Paul >>



    paul, you are right.
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    coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>yeah, but don't the cert's almost always come up on fake slabs? >>



    Yes, but look at the coin, not just the holder. Those surfaces look granular and terrible. Also, go to the link I provided and look at both the coin and the holder. Neither are the same.




    -Paul >>



    paul, you are right. >>




    I know. image Good job spotting it on eBay though, you obviously saw that the slab was off. Now report it so nobody gets stuck with a base-metal Saint.


    -Paul
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    << <i>i was just trying to point out that slab looks really suspicious to me and i was hoping for some more dialog about diagnostics on fake slabs. these fakes hurt our hobby and we need to be educated on them. that was my point with this post. but, i guess what i am hearing is that it doesn't matter. >>



    I agree that this is an important and under discussed issue. I wonder if there are sufficient diagnostics to detect fake slabs, if so I would think PCGS would be more in front of it.
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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They both look VERY wrong.
    Good catch stevenben

    please report
    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The real coin

    Notice how far the date is from the left side on each coin
    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    Either he buys all his coins from Heritage, or else whoever is copying the coins is getting the slab numbers from Heritage auctions.
    I checked three of his closed listings, all Heritage coins.
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    His transaction history does look strange, a lot of feedback from shockmeddy for Susans Bs.

    Trying to setup the account with good feedback?
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    Has PCGS ever published what an empty slab should weigh?
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    Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks all for sharing their info
    and knowledge !!!
    Timbuk3

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