IGC certs.

abmluce · August 22, 2002 12:26AM

Can anyone enlighten me on the grading level of IGC coins? I have a 1956 proof 70 dime and would love to know if its worth more than 10 cents. thanks, mark

jakemrjr · August 22, 2002 12:31AM

you mean ICG? or is there an IGC?

My opinion -- It would probably go for what a PCGS pr67 does. Maybe pr66.

abmluce · August 22, 2002 12:36AM

Opps, yes a ICG. Lol

littlewicher · August 22, 2002 12:55AM

They vary in different coin series. Proofs, they just plain suck.

kieferscoins · August 22, 2002 12:57AM

ICG overgrading thread

Another good ICG thread

Cameron Kiefer

abmluce · August 22, 2002 4:03AM

thanks kieferscoins, thanks to people like you, i am learning alot !

abmluce · August 22, 2002 5:51AM

Time to list it on ebay, no minimum, see what happens

DCAMFranklin · August 22, 2002 10:00AM

I'm not going to comment on ICG's grading of the Roosevelt dime, as I do not have any great expertise in the grading of that coin. However, I will give a lengthy story about their ability to grade Proof Franklins, where I do have a great deal of experience. When I was approached about using ICG for certification I decided to give them a fair shake. In the year 2000, I took 14 Franklin Proofs from their holders, so as not to have any bias impact the grading of the coins. I wanted fair, objective grading of the coins! Ten Franklins came from NGC holders, 3 Franklins came from PCGS holders and 1 Franklin came from an ANACS holder. I chose these coins, as I felt all the coins were deserving of the Cameo grade and did not have it. All except the ANACS coin, which was in a PR-67 Cameo holder, and I felt it was worthy of the DCAM grade. The ANACS coin came back from ICG with the exact same grade, PR-67 Cameo. Two of the 3 PCGS coins came back with numerical grades BELOW those assigned by PCGS. Neither of these original, older holder 1959 Franklins received the Cameo grade, though I feel quite confident if they were a more "common" date, they would have. The 3rd PCGS coin was purchased from Val Webb and the 1957 PR-68 came back from ICG with a PR-68 Cameo grade. ALL 10 of the NGC coins came back from ICG with a numerical grade LESS than that assigned by NGC. ALL 10!!! A 1961 PF-68 Franklin came back from ICG with a grade of PR-64 Cameo. FOUR grades lower, though Cameo! A total of seven of the 10 coins from NGC holders received the Cameo grade. Again, I don't have so much experience with the dimes, so I don't want to influence you about that particular coin, however, I feel this REAL-WORLD experiment (not hypothetical crap!) has helped me to appreciate the very strict grading practices they have for the Proof Franklins.

barrytrot · August 22, 2002 10:16AM

Great story DCAMFranklin!

While I'm not an expert by any means I might as well throw in my 2 cents.

I've got a bunch of Morgans and have some from pretty much every cert factory (except ACG) and I'll say that the ICG-63's I have are some of my MOST PQ coins!

They all look excellent and I would be shocked if they didn't cross at 64 into PCGS or NGC.

However, I'll agree with "littlewicher". I have a couple dimes in PR69 from ICG and my gosh I'd be surprised if the dime I just took out of my pocket didn't grade PR70 based on that standard. ICG apparently only has 2 proof levels 69 and 70.

Just check eBay and you'll see ICG 70's getting 68 money all the time.

So, my conclusion from the eyes of a non-expert is ICG is fine for "lower grades" but pretty much is winging it on the high PR's.

flaminio · August 22, 2002 12:24PM

I hear DCAMFranklin's story all the time. People go on about how loose ICG is, but whenever anyone does a real comparison, ICG almost always sends the coins back with lower grades. NGC in particular always seems to be a grade or two above ICG on the same coin.

It is inarguable that ICG does not command the market respect as PCGS or NGC, and hence realizes lower prices. However, it is my experience that ICG grades just as strict as PCGS, and perhaps more consistently, and stricter than NGC.

BTW -- there's a reason you see so many ICG 70s on eBay, and it's not because of loose standards. ICG, unlike PCGS, does not charge you the full grading fee if a coin does not make your specified grade (only a $5 handling fee). Many dealers send coins to ICG and specify to only slab them if they're a 70. Anything less is returned unslabbed. The net result of this is that there is a preponderance of 70s out there, and less of the lower grades of moderns.

-Bob

IrishMike · August 22, 2002 12:48PM

ICG grades as tough as PCGS and tougher than NGC and more consistently. Ouch, I don't even know where to begin on these statements, so I won't.

jamesfsm · August 22, 2002 3:45PM

I sent ICG a bunch of coins early this year, about half Rainbow Morgans and about 40% AU Bust 50C's and an NGC Seated 25C MS63 not cracked. All were cracked from NGC/PCGS holders, except the NGC Seated 25C was sent for crossover as it looked like it might be corroded. WHY? I had a coupon with ICG and there were coins in the group I though might upgrade and one that looked funny. All received lower or the same grades.

The NGC MS63 Seated 25C- was stickered as ungradeable because of corrosion. NGC wound up buying it back.

DCAMFranklin · August 22, 2002 4:34PM

Flamingo-
I'll tell you another reason why there are so many more MS-70 & PR-70 grade coins from NGC and ICG. When you look at the Population reports and see that PCGS still has not placed one 1986 Silver Eagle in their PR-70 DCAM holder after 18 years(!), yet NGC has 233 1986 coins in their PF-70 UCAM holder, if you had a PR-70 candidate coin and you were a medium to low submitter of coins (no favors), would you be STUPID enough to submit that coin to PCGS? When you look at the population reports and see that PCGS has yet to place a 2001-W Silver Eagle in their PR-70 DCAM holder when NGC has placed 567 coins in their PF-70 UCAM holder, would you take your super fine PR-70 or MS-70 candidate coin and send it to PCGS. Heck no! Only a ultra-high submission dealer (known by the grading supervisors) has an opportunity to receive the grade the coin deserves. At the end of next year, I bet there will be more than 150 PCGS Registry Sets of business strike (MS) Silver Eagle Sets. Probably 98% of the coins in those sets will MS-69 coins. What do you want to bet, that with 150+ collectors clamoring (at ultra-high prices) for MS-70 coins, PCGS will suddenly begin to produce MS-70 Silver Eagles mysteriously produced by ultra-high volumn submission dealers???? Some Members call this "politics". I'm not sure "politics" is what I would call it!?

IGC certs.

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