Severely ticked off. Am I Wrong?

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:25PM

Well I sent out a coin to a buyer for an agreed value of $2000. Buyer was not happy with the coin and said it only looked like a coin worth a couple of hundred dollars. Needless to say I said return it. So he supposedly sends it back but with priority mail with NO tracking and only $300 insurance!!!! Well...USPS lost the package and I'm severely pissed off. Is it the buyers responsibility to pay for the lost item for what we agreed on or what I paid for it? I bought it a few years ago and got a great deal on it and think it would sell for more now. Opinions??

llafoe · September 10, 2011 12:28PM

The buyer has possession until it's returned to you... IMO, the buyer is accountable for the coin (and their lack of proper care).

njcoincrank · September 10, 2011 12:28PM

Sounds to me like he/she owes you $2,000.

DennisH · September 10, 2011 12:29PM

<< Sounds to me like he/she owes you $2,000. >>

Yep.

TexasNationals · September 10, 2011 12:29PM

If the deal was $2,000 and you sent it to him as he agreed if the coin was worth $2,000, but didn't and you said return. I say the guy owes you $2,000, dammed what he thinks it is worth.

savoyspecial · September 10, 2011 12:32PM

i think we can all agree he owes you $2k (easy part)

now you can spend your energy and resources trying to collect (hard part)

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:34PM

I just don't understand why he would insure it for $300.

Batman23 · September 10, 2011 12:35PM

<< 

<< Sounds to me like he/she owes you $2,000. >>

Yep. >>

smokincoin · September 10, 2011 12:36PM

Maybe should have gotten paid first?

al410 · September 10, 2011 12:37PM

I agree with TexasNationals
AL

Alltheabove76 · September 10, 2011 12:37PM

Under the law he owes you its actual replacement value.

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:39PM

<< i think we can all agree he owes you $2k (easy part)

now you can spend your energy and resources trying to collect (hard part) >>

i would certainly hope not.

CCC2010 · September 10, 2011 12:40PM

<< I just don't understand why he would insure it for $300. >>

Because he wants to save some money....but in the long run it ends up costing him more

Hope you did not send him back his payment yet prior to learning that the coin was lost. He owes you 2K!

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:42PM

<< Maybe should have gotten paid first? >>

I have sent out packages worth close to $20,000 before getting paid. I try to be a trusting seller.

WTCG · September 10, 2011 12:42PM

<< Sounds to me like he/she owes you $2,000. >>

That is correct.

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:42PM

<< 

<< I just don't understand why he would insure it for $300. >>

Because he wants to save some money....but in the long run it ends up costing him more

Hope you did not send him back his payment yet prior to learning that the coin was lost. He owes you 2K! >>

I only asked for a 10% down payment on it.

WTCG · September 10, 2011 12:44PM

<< Maybe should have gotten paid first? >>

In the numismatic business world that is not always feasible nor logical.

themaster · September 10, 2011 12:44PM

Looking at this unfortunate situation from a neutral position:

1. You have fulfilled your end of the deal
2. Buyer left himself liable by cheaping out on return insurance
3. Post office screwed-up
4. $300 in the pot
5. You could be the better person and agree to the $300 + however much more than $300 that you have in the coin + at least 10%
6. It is a lose/lose situation
7. Karma

Have a Great Day!
Louis

revoldlog · September 10, 2011 12:45PM

Why priority mail but without tracking number??

mrearlygold · September 10, 2011 12:47PM

<< Sounds to me like he/she owes you $2,000. >>

Yup . You do have an invoice of some kind spelling out ownership etc yes?

Alltheabove76 · September 10, 2011 12:48PM

<< Why priority mail but without tracking number?? >>

If it was insured its trackable with the insurance slip

fivecents · September 10, 2011 12:48PM

He insured the coin with USPS for $300 and self insured it for $1,700.

He owes you $2,000.

Groiny · September 10, 2011 12:48PM

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:50PM

<< Looking at this unfortunate situation from a neutral position:

1. You have fulfilled your end of the deal
2. Buyer left himself liable by cheaping out on return insurance
3. Post office screwed-up
4. $300 in the pot
5. You could be the better person and agree to the $300 + however much more than $300 that you have in the coin + at least 10%
6. It is a lose/lose situation
7. Karma

Have a Great Day!
Louis >>

I will not be taking any less than the agreed value of the coin. If the post office lost it and he insured it for the right amount then I wouldn't be so mad about it. The fact that he cheapied out on insurance and 99 CENT tracking gets me angry as all heck!

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 12:51PM

Well I will contact the buyer to get this resolved.

TheCoinGeezer · September 10, 2011 12:59PM

<< 

<< Maybe should have gotten paid first? >>

I have sent out packages worth close to $20,000 before getting paid. I try to be a trusting seller. >>

Trusting is one thing. Naivety is another. Always get the $ first. Always!
Good luck chasing down that 2 grand.

coindeuce · September 10, 2011 1:08PM

Please at least post the ZIP code that this low life has a mailing address in, if you are not going to name the individual. I do not want to ever do business with that cementhead.

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 1:11PM

<< Please at least post the ZIP code that this low life has a mailing address in, if you are not going to name the individual. I do not want to ever do business with that cementhead. >>

If he doesn't make it right I will have no problem posting his name.

jom · September 10, 2011 1:14PM

<< In the numismatic business world that is not always feasible nor logical. >>

Why? How is it not "logical" to get paid for something before you send it out? Or sending the money back after you receive a returned item?

IMO, you should only send coins out on approval when you actually KNOW the buyer, you've met them and they have good references. Otherwise get the money first.

As to this deal: the buyer clearly owes the seller $2000 for this coin.

jom

OPA · September 10, 2011 1:15PM

BTW if the label was printed on line...Delivery Confirmation is free with Priority Mail.

keyman64 · September 10, 2011 1:16PM

Go get your 2k!

vibr0nic · September 10, 2011 1:17PM

Or maybe the buyer is full of sh*t and kept the coin and he is scamming you?

I would suggest that you pressure the heck out of the buyer and demand payment for the agreed original amount.

BAJJERFAN · September 10, 2011 1:18PM

<< 

<< Please at least post the ZIP code that this low life has a mailing address in, if you are not going to name the individual. I do not want to ever do business with that cementhead. >>

If he doesn't make it right I will have no problem posting his name. >>

If he saved his receipt he should go over to his post office and ask them to track it through the insurance tracking number. It my not be lost after all. They may charge him a small fee for the service.

coinpictures · September 10, 2011 1:18PM

Conspiracy theory alert!

Buyer likes coin but doesn't want to pay for it
Buys postage/insurance online, insuring coin for $300
Never takes parcel to post office, so it appears to be magically "lost"
Tries to foist obligation onto seller.

TomB · September 10, 2011 1:18PM

The buyer just "bought" a $2,000 coin for $2,000.

BAJJERFAN · September 10, 2011 1:21PM

<< Conspiracy theory alert!

Buyer likes coin but doesn't want to pay for it
Buys postage/insurance online, insuring coin for $300
Never takes parcel to post office, so it appears to be magically "lost"
Tries to foist obligation onto seller. >>

Tracking number will show if it was ever accepted at a P. O. or not. Also if he bought insurance online an investigation and audit of his account will reveal it.

braddick · September 10, 2011 1:23PM

I sure hope it wasn't that beautiful Peace dollar of yours as that coin is irreplaceable.

Unknown · September 10, 2011 1:35PM

This content has been removed.

TonedRarities · September 10, 2011 1:36PM

<< I sure hope it wasn't that beautiful Peace dollar of yours as that coin is irreplaceable. >>

As a matter of fact it WAS.

AMRC · September 10, 2011 1:47PM

He owes you $2,000. But I doubt if you will ever see it. If you had an invoice in the box you shipped, and he cannot show evidence of delivery back to you, and you can show evidence that he requested you to send the coin, you can sue him in small claims. Slam dunk. If he has bought from you before hopefully you have a copy of his check(s) from the past as that gives you the account you can attach once you win a judgement. He is an arrogant buttocks and should be outed.

Shamika · September 10, 2011 1:48PM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think $300 is all you're ever going to get.

How does the post office / law / insurance company define or determine "replacement value"? This is were things will likely get sticky.

jesbroken · September 10, 2011 1:51PM

My post office has never charged me for tracking the coins I ship with insurance purchased from U.S.P.S. Only they have the capability of tracking the package and should gladly assist someone with the request. I cannot fathom why the shipper told you their was no tracking number as it is on his copy of the insurance receipt. Good luck.
Jim

magikbilly · September 10, 2011 1:52PM

this may not end well. i hope it does.

Eric

dollarsandcents · September 10, 2011 2:03PM

<< I try to be a trusting seller. >>

Big mistake, right there.

Tdec1000 · September 10, 2011 2:14PM

<< 

<< I try to be a trusting seller. >>

Big mistake, right there. >>

Agreed, only ship to trusting individuals who you have done multiple transactions with before. Good Luck on getting your money back. I feel this isn't going to end well. Please out this person if it doesn't go well.

erickso1 · September 10, 2011 2:17PM

Just so dealers know, I don't think all buyers are like what has been represented. I prefer not to take shipment until PIF, and I remember a thread here where a good majority of the people agreed w/ that thought (it wasn't my thread, nor my thought). You shouldn't be able to get any product, and I mean any product, w/o PIF'ing it in full. You take out loans through a bank/CC for your home, car, Lowes lumber, airline flights, etc. But the seller gets PIF, the lender of funds is on the hook for the cash. I don't know why the belief is so pervasive in the coin industry that coins can be shipped before PIF, especially outside of people you trust. It makes no sense.

edited to add: this is just my opinion. If I buy a coin from you, I don't want to see it on my doorstep any sooner then PIF. Sincerely, yours.

magikbilly · September 10, 2011 2:17PM

Out the person..I think the important information is "outed" already - ship to those you know etc. We can all ignore the buyer, but I'll learn more from the seller in this situation.

Eric

123cents · September 10, 2011 2:19PM

You are certainly owed $2000, I just hope you are able to collect.

Bochiman · September 10, 2011 2:25PM

Is it a forum member? That's what I want to know.

In my eyes, I see a couple of things here:

In this particular case, if you told him $2000 and he agreed to buy it, with a return policy, then he is agreeing to $2000.
If he chose to insure for $300 and no tracking, then he is self-insuring for $1700, in my opinion.

I hope you have all this in emails as you may need that if it ends up needing an attorney or small claims court.
He may even be deciding to "lose the coin" and keep it (under $500 (I believe that's the amount) can be done online and not need to even go to a post office to have them take care of it when mailing).

In the future, if you are going to play dealer, and deal with coins over a few hundred dollars, you may want to have a business account set up that you can have people use when they return products, that way they won't try to be cheapasses. Yes, it is a cost, but it may save you money in the long run, particularly in cases like this.

derryb · September 10, 2011 2:28PM

Possession is 9/10 of the law. Who has the money and why?

19Lyds · September 10, 2011 2:29PM

Before I render an opinion, I'd first like to see a record of the communication exchange and a photo of the coin involved. Otherwise, its your word against the buyers as to what its true value may or may not be.

Severely ticked off. Am I Wrong?

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