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CBH's - Relative Value Compared to Other Series
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I read a comment on Bear's 1812 thread that suggested this series was overpriced. I like to hear some various opinions regarding this. Seems to me that there is a relatively large and growing collecting base and at current prices I think there is some relative value compared to other series (especially for the cool factor, history of these coins and addicting nature of the series - overdates etc...).
Let's hear what you have to say.
Let's hear what you have to say.
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<< <i>I read a comment on Bear's 1812 thread that suggested this series was overpriced. I like to hear some various opinions regarding this. Seems to me that there is a relatively large and growing collecting base and at current prices I think there is some relative value compared to other series (especially for the cool factor, history of these coins and addicting nature of the series - overdates etc...).
Let's hear what you have to say. >>
I'm the one who felt they were overpriced. Perhaps it is because I have been collecting for fifty years and regard the CBH series as essentially just common coins. They were the Morgan dollars of their era (even though they were half dollars), were often used as bank reserves and had a high survival rate in high grade.
When I go to my local shows and see dozens of common date CBHs, both slabbed and unslabbed, in the cases of Sunday Bourse dealers it tells me that those coins aren't rare or even scarce.
<< <i>
<< <i>I read a comment on Bear's 1812 thread that suggested this series was overpriced. I like to hear some various opinions regarding this. Seems to me that there is a relatively large and growing collecting base and at current prices I think there is some relative value compared to other series (especially for the cool factor, history of these coins and addicting nature of the series - overdates etc...).
Let's hear what you have to say. >>
I'm the one who felt they were overpriced. Perhaps it is because I have been collecting for fifty years and regard the CBH series as essentially just common coins. They were the Morgan dollars of their era (even though they were half dollars), were often used as bank reserves and had a high survival rate in high grade.
When I go to my local shows and see dozens of common date CBHs, both slabbed and unslabbed, in the cases of Sunday Bourse dealers it tells me that those coins aren't rare or even scarce. >>
Interesting comments with which I generally disagree. However, I do acknowledge that they BHs generally are available at coin shows, and that in the grade many collectors look for, AU-58, prices have gone up a ton in the last few years (though they have come down a bit recently also). But finding nice ones in any grade, especially AU+ is still quite a challenge and these coins are still relatively cheap. And choice, original XFs are a real bargain IMO. I'm a relatively new member of the BHNC group but they are an avid group and form part of an active collecting base that sustains demand and, in turn, prices, and I suspect this will continue in the future. I also agree that, because of how they were used, they are relatively plentiful, compared with other denominations of the period, but I also think they are relatively cheap. I, too, am curious to hear what others have to say.
Tom
I would tend to agree that choice XF or even VF35 coins are undervalued, especially compared to some of the recent prices in the upper AU grades.
But in MS to Gem, the demand for nice ones far exceeds the supply. And for the rare dates, and scarce varieties, collectors may wait for years to find the right one for a serious set.
I have been at it for 10 years, and look at every AU to MS coin in auction, and on dealer sites.
Pops-- PCGS has graded 33,853 in 25 years. A little over 1% have made Gem( MS 65). Of those, no more than 15% are nicely toned and PQ for grade. We are talking about 50 to 60 coins.
Less than .001 have graded MS 66.
I recently purchased a fab MS 66 for under 30,000. It was pop 3, none higher. A similar Walker might cost over 100,000.
So to answer the OP question, yes and no. Plenty of low grade halves of this series can be had for less than the cost of a carton of cigs, but the rare ones are way behind the rarities of many series.
I am looking for CBH in AU to 63 (hopefully 64-65 in a couple of years), and to be honest I have only found one coin since the FUN show in January. I like many on here are trying to have the set have the same "look" throughout the collection.
If I wanted to just buy CBH's it would be as easy a buying Morgans or Peace dollars. Even in the AU range some of these are hard to find with the right "look" and can cost a few thousand dollars.
I do believe that CBH's are undervalualed compared to many of the more main stream series being collected. If the same amount of people collected CBH's that collect pennies or barbers, walking liberty halves, it would make it impossible to find the coins you want at a reasonable price.
My 2 cents not adjusted for inflation, so it reality it might be worthless.
Gary
Indeed, the large jump in AU prices the past five years, have not included the common R1-3 late date CBHs.
This drives demand and while problem coins are readily available, problem free coins are often in very firm hands. I have been building a modified Red book set for about 6yrs and still trying to
find some af the varieities in really nice Vf-EF.
I started on this series just over 4 years ago and have moved up from a XF set to a choice AU - low MS REDBOOK set.
I am finding out that the nicely toned choice AU bust halves are far and few between, and when they do become available, one has to really pay up as the competition has picked up quite a bit in the last few years IMO.
I also agree with Dale that this series is still undervalued, especially in the upper tier MS range, as compared to some other series.
The reason I started collecting bust halves in MS or better in 2001 is based on comparative value. I had almost finished my Barber halves and realized that the MS 65 and higher grades in the CBH series were totally out of line.
A scarce MS 66 Barber was bringing 8K to 10K. And 67's were 12 to 15K. The 64's and 65 generics were at 1200 and 3000--and were plentiful.
Nice CBH's were trading for around 1700 in 63, 2250 in 64 and 5900 in 65. And the pops were really low.
Only 300 MS 65's had been graded by PCGS, and less than 40 66's. I found a pop 3- 1 higher 1823 for 6500 and was on my way.
Okay, what about today. A pq 65, nicely toned will range from 11,000 to 13,000. But a pop 1 or 2 scarce date in 64 can still be bought for under 30,000. A rare 1812/1 large 8 has jumped to over 20K in AU 45 or better, but is still a nice value, considering the rarity.
When there are no MS coins, and the highest graded is AU 53, an XF 45 is a Condition Census coin.
Ease of sale: The Solomon collection sold at ANA Chicago brought out multiple bidders for almost all the coins( Early bust, with emphasis on Halves). An 1823 Broken 3 in AU 58 sold at 7800 with an estimate of 3500 to 4500. The 181.7 in 55 for 4100(est. 1400 to 2000). And the 1805 in 58--18,000. Price guides for this date and grade had been around 11K before the sale.
The 1803 sm 3 is a serious rarity in AU 55 and better. Pop 2, with 3 higher. I paid 3700 for my AU 55 in 2002. This one brought over 16K. And the sole AU 58 sold for over 30K this year.
Maybe a few of the really hard to find dates are catching up!
I love the Bust halves, personally. Where else can you get coins that are large, silver, and dated in the early 1800s, which the average collector can still afford in upper circulated grades? Answer: only in foreign coins. The Bust Half series, along with early large cents, is also a Mecca for variety collectors. There are many things to like about Bust halves, even if well-worn pieces are plentiful. I feel comfortable with the coins I own as a long-term investment.
As Dale pointed out, these coins had a huge run up in price between 2001 and 2008 in MS 65. I looked for a type coin in MS 65 and gave up after four years, and haven't bothered to seriously look in the last four years. NGC pops are far higher than PCGS pops, and if you've looked at enough NGC coins in this series in this grade, you'll know why. The Blue Sheet tells you as much.
Many of the coins I've seen in TPG holders in 4 and 5 imo have been work-ed on, or have questionable toning. Many of such toned coins, imo, if sent in raw today, would bag. What I've typically seen offered to me as of late in a 5 holder runs between $9-$11K and has problems.
For this money, I bought a better date, original, AU 1802 Narrow Date Bust $ in PC 53 with a sticker. To me, said Bust $ is worth far more than a type CBH in a 5 holder, regardless of its originality.
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