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PayPal Transaction Reversal
19Lyds
Posts: 26,503 ✭✭✭✭
This is a first for me but yesterday I received the following email from PayPal:
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Hello Lee C Lydston,
We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank. A bank reversal can be requested by the bank itself or the bank account holder.
Transaction Id: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Transaction Amount: $xxx.xx USD
Email: xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com
We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until our inquiry is complete.
We are reviewing the bank reversal and will contact you again via email with information on what to do next. You may be asked to provide additional information about this transaction.
Sincerely,
PayPal
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I emailed the buyer with the above information and he replied:
"I don't know, but I did get an email from them asking that I enter a verification code when I receive the coin and verify that it is the way you described it. Could that be it?"
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The item is out for delivery this morning (8/10/2011) and fortunately, I paid for insurance plus signature confirmation so I think I'm covered. BTW this was for a roll of 64-D Kennedy's.
Aside from responding to the PayPal Resolution Center once I get the Proof of Delivery from the USPS, what more can I do? What more should I expect?
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Hello Lee C Lydston,
We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank. A bank reversal can be requested by the bank itself or the bank account holder.
Transaction Id: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Transaction Amount: $xxx.xx USD
Email: xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com
We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until our inquiry is complete.
We are reviewing the bank reversal and will contact you again via email with information on what to do next. You may be asked to provide additional information about this transaction.
Sincerely,
PayPal
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I emailed the buyer with the above information and he replied:
"I don't know, but I did get an email from them asking that I enter a verification code when I receive the coin and verify that it is the way you described it. Could that be it?"
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The item is out for delivery this morning (8/10/2011) and fortunately, I paid for insurance plus signature confirmation so I think I'm covered. BTW this was for a roll of 64-D Kennedy's.
Aside from responding to the PayPal Resolution Center once I get the Proof of Delivery from the USPS, what more can I do? What more should I expect?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
0
Comments
<< <i>I emailed the buyer with the above information and he replied:
"I don't know, but I did get an email from them asking that I enter a verification code when I receive the coin and verify that it is the way you described it. Could that be it?" >>
I have never seen paypal send that message to a buyer. The funds have been reversed (taken from you). The reason for the hold is to keep the money in paypal's possession. If his bank says give it back to us, they will, even though you have shipped.
Check the paypal details page and make sure it says OK to ship. If so you should be covered by paypal seller protection in the event things go south. Wouldn't hurt to call paypal and confirm this. Another option and the one I would take is to immediately submit form 1509 to the post office (same branch you shipped from) to recall the shipment and have it returned to you. Once buyer gets shipment no one, including paypal, can make him return it. Bottom line is you have not been paid, but you have shipped. If payment works out you can always reship to buyer.
Paragraph 5.0
Also a quick outing of the buyer would allow others to temporarily block sales to him until your problem is resolved. I don't want to take a chance with this buyer.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Check the paypal details page and make sure it says OK to ship. If so you should be covered by paypal seller protection in the event things go south. Wouldn't hurt to call paypal and confirm this. Another option is to submit form 1509 to the post office to recall the shipment and have it returned to you.
Paragraph 5.0
Also a quick outing of the buyer would allow others to temporarily block sales to him until your problem is resolved. I don't want to take a chance with this buyer. >>
As I said, the item is out for delivery this morning and I'll only out the buyer should this transaction turn south.
IF, what the buyer says is true, then Paypal is lying when they state that "a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank".
IF what PayPal says is true, then the buyer is lying.
Oh well.
The name is LEE!
Isn't something like this covered under seller's protection?
<< <i>
<< <i>Check the paypal details page and make sure it says OK to ship. If so you should be covered by paypal seller protection in the event things go south. Wouldn't hurt to call paypal and confirm this. Another option is to submit form 1509 to the post office to recall the shipment and have it returned to you.
Paragraph 5.0
Also a quick outing of the buyer would allow others to temporarily block sales to him until your problem is resolved. I don't want to take a chance with this buyer. >>
As I said, the item is out for delivery this morning and I'll only out the buyer should this transaction turn south.
IF, what the buyer says is true, then Paypal is lying when they state that "a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank".
IF what PayPal says is true, then the buyer is lying.
Oh well. >>
With your shipping confirmation, the delivering mailman will have to scan item before handing over to buyer. A quick trip to PO to reverse shipment could easily show up when he scans it. I would be at the PO right now inquiring.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>The buyer filed a chargeback. He's trying to keep your item and the money. I would call up paypal and tell them to reverse it back. >>
This is not a case where paypal is holding the funds until proof of delivery. They are holding the funds while they communicate with the bank that wants the payment reversed. Paypal will honor a bank reversal and return money to the bank. If seller protection kicks in, paypal will eat the loss. If not, seller will eat the loss. If seller shipped and paypal details page does not say "ok to ship, seller protection" then seller will eat the loss.
Protection or no protection will be determined by what the paypal details page for the item says. My experience with bank reversals has always been the buyer ending up with the item and the money if his intention from the begining was to do so. A policy (in the item description) of shipping only to paypal confirmed address does not completely eliminate this problem but does help to minimize it.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>The buyer filed a chargeback. He's trying to keep your item and the money. I would call up paypal and tell them to reverse it back. >>
This is not a case where paypal is holding the funds until proof of delivery. They are holding the funds while they communicate with the bank that wants the payment reversed. Paypal will honor a bank reversal and return money to the bank. If seller protection kicks in, paypal will eat the loss. If not, seller will eat the loss. If seller shipped and paypal details page does not say "ok to ship, seller protection" then seller will eat the loss.
Protection or no protection will be determined by what the paypal details page for the item says. My experience with bank reversals has always been the buyer ending up with the item and the money if his intention from the begining was to do so. A policy (in the item description) of shipping only to paypal confirmed address does not completely eliminate this problem but does help to minimize it. >>
This is mostly correct. The only thing I'd add is that a confirmed address no longer has any bearing on seller protection. The SPP covers any address, confirmed or not, as long as it is the one provided by PayPal.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I'd be running to the Post Office. in a flash. >>
The item is already out for delivery from the buyer's post office. It cannot be recalled.
Russ, NCNE
per Russ's reply I was once told by the post office that a request to return a shipment electronically flags the hand held device that the delivery mailman uses to scan the item upon delivery. How quickly the handheld device gets the data is another matter.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i> This is mostly correct. The only thing I'd add is that a confirmed address no longer has any bearing on seller protection. The SPP covers any address, confirmed or not, as long as it is the one provided by PayPal. >>
Shipping to only a confirmed address gives a seller the added peace of mind that the buyer jumped through the hoops to prove his identity and location to paypal. In my opinion this reduces the odds of the buyer being bogus.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>So if the buyer paid from his bank account then all he need do is run down to his bank and say I want money money back from this here transaction, get it for me please? >>
A buyer purchasing anywhere can do that.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i> This is mostly correct. The only thing I'd add is that a confirmed address no longer has any bearing on seller protection. The SPP covers any address, confirmed or not, as long as it is the one provided by PayPal. >>
Shipping to only a confirmed address gives a seller the added peace of mind that the buyer jumped through the hoops to prove his identity and location to paypal. In my opinion this reduces the odds of the buyer being bogus. >>
The problem is that it's unenforceable. Unconfirmed addresses cannot be blocked for eBay sales, and the seller is required to ship to the address provided by PayPal, confirmed or not.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>So if the buyer paid from his bank account then all he need do is run down to his bank and say I want money money back from this here transaction, get it for me please? >>
A buyer purchasing anywhere can do that.
Russ, NCNE >>
Of course, if he doesn't return the merchandise he becomes eligible for a fraud charge. Just depends on how far the losing party wishes to push it and how slow business is at the cop shop.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>So if the buyer paid from his bank account then all he need do is run down to his bank and say I want money money back from this here transaction, get it for me please? >>
A buyer purchasing anywhere can do that.
Russ, NCNE >>
My bank will not honor such requests. Such requests must be made between the buyer and the merchant. I tried this once when I purchased some gold on eBay at a too good to be true deal only to think a few minutes later that somebody's account was in fact, hijacked. I recovered my money via Paypal (after I reported my investigation to them and they were quick to agree with me on what happened), but not through the bank reversal method because again, my bank told me to pound sand and I'd have to deal with it directly. Now had it been a CHECK, they could have done something, but it would had cost me five dollars. I guess that is the way of SOME small town banks.
<< <i>My bank will not honor such requests. >>
You need to change banks.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> This is mostly correct. The only thing I'd add is that a confirmed address no longer has any bearing on seller protection. The SPP covers any address, confirmed or not, as long as it is the one provided by PayPal. >>
Shipping to only a confirmed address gives a seller the added peace of mind that the buyer jumped through the hoops to prove his identity and location to paypal. In my opinion this reduces the odds of the buyer being bogus. >>
The problem is that it's unenforceable. Unconfirmed addresses cannot be blocked for eBay sales, and the seller is required to ship to the address provided by PayPal, confirmed or not.
Russ, NCNE >>
Still a good deterant. The few times I've returned a payment and informed the buyer of my policy that is clear in my description, the buyer never pursued it with ebay. Chances were they were good buyers, but why take the chance.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
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Just for the record.
NEVER EVER - click a link from an email stating it is from any site. Go to the site directly by typing in the url or using a bookmark.
The amount of phishing emails from "paypal" "ebay" and several other sites I use are on the rise 10 fold. Not being paranoid, it is just that I've seen some really creative
looking ones claiming this and claiming that and almost clicked the link in the email. Every one I suspected of being a "false" email that I contacted the "real" site about stated that it was in fact a "false" email and to NEVER EVER click links contained in them.
Once I logged in NOT using the link in the email I found the information to be inaccurate.
Obviously your situation can be verified easily by simply logging into paypal to see if the funds are in fact placed on temporary hold.
Since you did state that the buyers bank reversed their funding that means you received an E-check and usually that takes 3 days to clear give or take and you obviously DO NOT ship during that period no matter what because even if someone is honest they may accidentally over-draw their account and not have over-draft protection which puts you in the hot seat if you've already shipped.
If everything is as you say it is then my best wishes are with you.
.
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I guess I'll see where it goes from here.
The name is LEE!
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I've seen one of those letters from PayPal before.
My guess is the guy went overdrawn, probably big time, in his account and now the bank is trying to get what money back they can by requesting PayPal to cancel the transaction.
just a guess.
It sounds like you should be covered by PayPal. They covered me but my funds were never held that I know of.
<< <i>what did the paypal details page say: Ok to ship or do not ship? that will determine if you are covered. >>
OK to Ship. "Shipping address - confirmed"
The name is LEE!
<< <i>We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank >>
Sounds like a case of NSF. It takes about 2 -3 days for PayPal to receive their funds, they take that chance every time a payment is made from an existing checking account.
<< <i>
<< <i>We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank >>
Sounds like a case of NSF. It takes about 2 -3 days for PayPal to receive their funds, they take that chance every time a payment is made from an existing checking account. >>
Normally while awaiting for a bank transfer to process, paypal will instruct seller not to ship (on the details page). Is it possible that this was a credit card reversal (a bank issued card) by the buyer after payment went through and paypal said OK to ship? Had that happen to me once, paypal covered the loss.
Time to out the ebay buyer, chances are paypal hasn't shut him down. His mailing address would be nice to add to my bad buyer list because he may be back with another ebay user name.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
In both cases, the buyer waited at least 30 days to file a dispute (resolution). In neither case did the buyer state that the item was not received. Here are the scenarios:
1 - The buyer claims (exactly 30 days after card was mailed) that their paypal account was subject to 'unauthorized use' - however, the transaction as well as the adddress were confirmed by paypal. It turns out that the name (and possibly address) that I shipped the card to is not associated with that account any longer. I was charged back and told that there is nothing I can do about it. I keep asking paypal how I am responsible for access to another person's account, whether it is authorized or not - they confirmed the seller's address, and that it was okay to send the item.
2 - This transaction is still in 'resolution', although the funds have been taken back by paypal. Paypal says that the buyer's bankcard company has disputed the transaction, and it may take up to 75 days to get an answer from the bankcard company. In this case, I emailed the card numbers and pin to the seller after receiving the funds via paypal (with no problem mentioned by paypal telling me to wait to ship item). Again, 30 days later, the seller's 'bank' disputes the transaction and paypal asks me for proof of delivery. I send them a copy of the emails from the seller asking for the card numbers, and my response with the card numbers. The card was used online 2 days after I sent the numbers - I am contacting the store to see if they will tell me where the order was shipped.
I don't believe that Paypal's 'investigation dept' even exists - they provide no seller protection and I am doing all of the legwork trying to find out where & when the card was used. I think that buyers are starting to realize that they can dispute just about any transaction with paypal and get there $$ back, plus keep the item. I have never had this happen before - only since I started selling gift cards, which I quickly stopped selling!
Also, is there a way to 'neg' a non-paying eBay buyer, or does the seller have to use the dispute resolution ('report a problem with buyer')? I can't even neg a bidder who placed 8 bids on an item over 5 days, then said he was surprised he won, and asked that I cancel his bid???? Of course he had a zero FB when he won, so he'll just create another ID......but still.
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
<< <i>Also, is there a way to 'neg' a non-paying eBay buyer... >>
No. Buyers are all perfect. Any problems with a transaction are the fault of the seller (eBay doesn't say this explicitly, but based on their evolving policies, they might as well have).
<< <i>This is very interesting to me. I am currently battling with paypal over two reversals that were charged to my account. The transactions do not involve coins, but gift cards sold on eBay.
In both cases, the buyer waited at least 30 days to file a dispute (resolution). In neither case did the buyer state that the item was not received. Here are the scenarios:
1 - The buyer claims (exactly 30 days after card was mailed) that their paypal account was subject to 'unauthorized use' - however, the transaction as well as the adddress were confirmed by paypal. It turns out that the name (and possibly address) that I shipped the card to is not associated with that account any longer. I was charged back and told that there is nothing I can do about it. I keep asking paypal how I am responsible for access to another person's account, whether it is authorized or not - they confirmed the seller's address, and that it was okay to send the item.
2 - This transaction is still in 'resolution', although the funds have been taken back by paypal. Paypal says that the buyer's bankcard company has disputed the transaction, and it may take up to 75 days to get an answer from the bankcard company. In this case, I emailed the card numbers and pin to the seller after receiving the funds via paypal (with no problem mentioned by paypal telling me to wait to ship item). Again, 30 days later, the seller's 'bank' disputes the transaction and paypal asks me for proof of delivery. I send them a copy of the emails from the seller asking for the card numbers, and my response with the card numbers. The card was used online 2 days after I sent the numbers - I am contacting the store to see if they will tell me where the order was shipped. >>
In both cases you failed to follow the seller protection policy. In both cases, had you done do, PayPal would have covered you.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Kind of small fry for a sophisticated criminal, wouldn't you say? >>
poor choice of my words ;
how about those animals in prison that use library computers and our tax dollars to orchestrate any sort of sham they can dream up ?
better ??
I sent him an email inquiring about the "verification code" and whether or not I out him will be dependent upon the reply.
Thanks for all the help and advice as its quite distressing to watch a "slow train wreck" that affects you directly, of which you can do nothing about other than watch and wait.
I did call PayPal and the funds were released. The person I spoke with stated that it looked like an NSF which occurs frequently as folks have a difficult time understanding the relationship between PayPal, their bank accounts and their credit cards with where payment will actually come from. I know it's bitten me on the butt a couple of times.
Again. depending upon the buyers response to my inquiry will dictate whether or not he should be blocked since mistakes do happen.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
I did call PayPal and the funds were released. The person I spoke with stated that it looked like an NSF which occurs frequently as folks have a difficult time understanding the relationship between PayPal, their bank accounts and their credit cards with where payment will actually come from. I know it's bitten me on the butt a couple of times.. >>
It's not always that people have a difficult time understanding the paypal/bank acct/credit card relationship and where the funds come from, but rather that paypal never lets it default to the CC and it isn't always caught
Many times, people don't keep the funds in their attached bank account and if you don't catch it (the process changes sometimes and depends on the checkout process), or you go in and out and think that the setting was saved, then you are hit with it. And, once you submit the payment, even if you did catch it, you can't undo it.
Out of all the gripes about paypal that I see/hear around here, this is the only one I really agree to complain about.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I wish I had half his financial saavy!
<< <i>Normally while awaiting for a bank transfer to process, paypal will instruct seller not to ship (on the details page). >>
Not so, PayPal will ok to ship in 99.9% of the time when buyer makes the payment. Only in cases where PayPal had a problem in the past, will there be an extended hold. As I indicated before, this had the M.O. of an NSF and it turned out to be that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Normally while awaiting for a bank transfer to process, paypal will instruct seller not to ship (on the details page). >>
Not so, PayPal will ok to ship in 99.9% of the time when buyer makes the payment. Only in cases where PayPal had a problem in the past, will there be an extended hold. As I indicated before, this had the M.O. of an NSF and it turned out to be that. >>
My experience as a seller has been that paypal does not considered payment made until funds clear into the buyer's paypal account. I have had to wait a number of times 3-5 days before the OK to ship statement shows up on the details page. There are also cases where paypal will advise seller not to ship while paypal does a check on a credit card payment by my buyer. I assume paypal sees flags that are only visible to them.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Normally while awaiting for a bank transfer to process, paypal will instruct seller not to ship (on the details page). >>
Not so, PayPal will ok to ship in 99.9% of the time when buyer makes the payment. Only in cases where PayPal had a problem in the past, will there be an extended hold. As I indicated before, this had the M.O. of an NSF and it turned out to be that. >>
My experience as a seller has been that paypal does not considered payment made until funds clear into the buyer's paypal account. I have had to wait a number of times 3-5 days before the OK to ship statement shows up on the details page. There are also cases where paypal will advise seller not to ship while paypal does a check on a credit card payment by my buyer. I assume paypal sees flags that are only visible to them. >>
I've been selling on eBay for over 10 years and have never experience what you indicated. The only time when there is a delay if the payment was made via PayPal e check.