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Some thoughts on security for high-end coins kept at home...
Raufus
Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
I originally posted the below comments on a thread about a woman who was wiped out when burglars made away with her entire safe which contained $500K in coins, gold, etc.
I was thinking that it might be worthwhile to post my response to this woman's great misfortune as a separate thread for the benefit of those who didn't read the thread about the robbery.
For what it's worth, here are a few thoughts on security for those who keep high end coin collections (or any other high six or seven figure collectibles) at home...
How utterly sad to read about this.
The bottom line, if one does not want to keep such a collection in a SDB, many LAYERS of security are a MUST!!
If keeping this kind of $ in coins at home one should have good motion activated exterior lighting, well trimmed hedges w/no hiding places near the house, very solid doors, properly installed, commercial grade, highly pick resistant locks (Medico, Schlage Primus, etc.), Armor Coat type film on all first floor, deck, etc. (i.e., possible entry point) windows, a tip tier, monitored security system w/cell back up, high-end day/night security cameras w/several weeks of storage on the system's DVR (depending on how long/often one is away, remote (i.e., P.C.) accessible in-home cameras (e.g., ADT Pulse, or the like), a very heavy, TOP quality safe, (e.g., large, top tier Fort Knox or the like) ideally w/it's own security zone so which can stay armed while the rest of the system is unarmed, ideally the safe is in a safe room w/poured concrete walls and ceiling and a very high quality vault door.
Consider a big, protective dog. Criminals are absolutely terrified of dogs. FBI studies have borne this out. Professional, hardened criminals consistently cite large dogs as the single thing that scares them most.
Most importantly keep quiet and be sure that your friends and family who know about your collection do the same. Keep the safe/safe room out of sight from anyone whom you don't specifically want to know about it - and that list should be very, very short.
If some dirt bag breaks in to your home he will not be in position to just haul off a 700 lb safe. Clearly the criminal know exactly what he was going for.
If one is not VERY serious about security then don't keep a half million in coins at home.
While perhaps not for everyone, I'm a big believer in being well armed and very well trained in addition to other security measures.
If you keep a very high end collection at home and have great security some dirt bag could decide to have you access the collection at gun point. Another great reason to learn some practical martial arts - great cardo w/a survival benefit which extends well beyond just the cardio value.
The SDB is a fantastic - likely the best - idea. Of course, as a forum member noted above, one of the greatest joys of collecting is being able to enjoy your collection at will. Everything is a trade-off. Be careful.
All of the above (excusive of a firearm, firearm and DT training - highly variable cost, certainly not for everyone) can be had for less than $60K for a 5000 square foot home. If you have high six figures or seven figures to spend on coins, this is a relatively small investment in security.
It can be made to look very nice as well - security does not have to be ugly. In fact there are lots of side benefits: one or one's family can retreat to a safe room if intruders enter. A poured concrete safe room is very cheap if done when one builds. A very high quality vault door (e.g.., Ft. Knox Executive series) is only a few grand (stainless steel package is a must, it's much harder to torch).
Get slightly tinted, 100% UV blocking security window film. It will substantially lower energy costs and dramatically decrease fading of furniture, floors, photos, artwork, etc. For deck doors and windows in stairwells, if one falls on the windows one will not be lacerated by broken glass.
Connect heat, smoke, water, carbon monoxide and gas detectors to your alarm system. These may save your home and your life.
Sorry to be long-winded. I've just seen so many people with tons of money in collectibles and no security. It amazes me. They're shocked when they're hit. They get serious about security after the fact. If I can spare even one collector the grief of being robbed then I'll be thrilled.
I feel so sorry for the victim. What a huge loss. Unfortunately, other then the safe it seems that she didn't have much security at all.
(Edited: please see comments on insurance below.)
I was thinking that it might be worthwhile to post my response to this woman's great misfortune as a separate thread for the benefit of those who didn't read the thread about the robbery.
For what it's worth, here are a few thoughts on security for those who keep high end coin collections (or any other high six or seven figure collectibles) at home...
How utterly sad to read about this.
The bottom line, if one does not want to keep such a collection in a SDB, many LAYERS of security are a MUST!!
If keeping this kind of $ in coins at home one should have good motion activated exterior lighting, well trimmed hedges w/no hiding places near the house, very solid doors, properly installed, commercial grade, highly pick resistant locks (Medico, Schlage Primus, etc.), Armor Coat type film on all first floor, deck, etc. (i.e., possible entry point) windows, a tip tier, monitored security system w/cell back up, high-end day/night security cameras w/several weeks of storage on the system's DVR (depending on how long/often one is away, remote (i.e., P.C.) accessible in-home cameras (e.g., ADT Pulse, or the like), a very heavy, TOP quality safe, (e.g., large, top tier Fort Knox or the like) ideally w/it's own security zone so which can stay armed while the rest of the system is unarmed, ideally the safe is in a safe room w/poured concrete walls and ceiling and a very high quality vault door.
Consider a big, protective dog. Criminals are absolutely terrified of dogs. FBI studies have borne this out. Professional, hardened criminals consistently cite large dogs as the single thing that scares them most.
Most importantly keep quiet and be sure that your friends and family who know about your collection do the same. Keep the safe/safe room out of sight from anyone whom you don't specifically want to know about it - and that list should be very, very short.
If some dirt bag breaks in to your home he will not be in position to just haul off a 700 lb safe. Clearly the criminal know exactly what he was going for.
If one is not VERY serious about security then don't keep a half million in coins at home.
While perhaps not for everyone, I'm a big believer in being well armed and very well trained in addition to other security measures.
If you keep a very high end collection at home and have great security some dirt bag could decide to have you access the collection at gun point. Another great reason to learn some practical martial arts - great cardo w/a survival benefit which extends well beyond just the cardio value.
The SDB is a fantastic - likely the best - idea. Of course, as a forum member noted above, one of the greatest joys of collecting is being able to enjoy your collection at will. Everything is a trade-off. Be careful.
All of the above (excusive of a firearm, firearm and DT training - highly variable cost, certainly not for everyone) can be had for less than $60K for a 5000 square foot home. If you have high six figures or seven figures to spend on coins, this is a relatively small investment in security.
It can be made to look very nice as well - security does not have to be ugly. In fact there are lots of side benefits: one or one's family can retreat to a safe room if intruders enter. A poured concrete safe room is very cheap if done when one builds. A very high quality vault door (e.g.., Ft. Knox Executive series) is only a few grand (stainless steel package is a must, it's much harder to torch).
Get slightly tinted, 100% UV blocking security window film. It will substantially lower energy costs and dramatically decrease fading of furniture, floors, photos, artwork, etc. For deck doors and windows in stairwells, if one falls on the windows one will not be lacerated by broken glass.
Connect heat, smoke, water, carbon monoxide and gas detectors to your alarm system. These may save your home and your life.
Sorry to be long-winded. I've just seen so many people with tons of money in collectibles and no security. It amazes me. They're shocked when they're hit. They get serious about security after the fact. If I can spare even one collector the grief of being robbed then I'll be thrilled.
I feel so sorry for the victim. What a huge loss. Unfortunately, other then the safe it seems that she didn't have much security at all.
(Edited: please see comments on insurance below.)
Land of the Free because of the Brave!
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Comments
after my late father. Now Sidney can be a rather imposing fellow when he wants to be.
Seriously though, this is an excellent thread and well thought out. You are to be commended
for again bringing up the always important issue, of security for valuable coins in the home. This
topic can never be discussed or stressed enough. Especially in the economic hard times we now
fimd ourselves in. Well said indeed.
Camelot
<< <i>Hmm. I do not have a big dog, but I do have a 28 inch tall teddy bear named Sidney
after my late father. Now Sidney can be a rather imposing fellow when he wants to be.
Seriously though, this is an excellent thread and well thought out. You are to be commended
for again bringing up the always important issue, of security for valuable coins in the home. This
topic can never be discussed or stressed enough. Especially in the economic hard times we now
fimd ourselves in. Well said indeed.
Thanks very much Bear.
Of course, of all of the security measures mentioned none has more side benefits then the pooch - joy, companionship and unconditional love - it's hard to beat that!
Happy 4th.
R-
<< <i>Farmers underwriter plan~
I think that insurance is an absolute must. That said, I've spoken with some high-end collectors who've made substantial security investments who forgo the insurance thinking that robbery is very improbable given that security and because the insurance premiums are high. I disagree. I think that insurance is a key component no matter where the collection is kept.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Also helpful if you're going to keep lots of valuable stuff at home:
Be fit, and trained, and always On Guard
For many, it's just not practical to try to maintain vigilance at all times, and live like a target in a spy movie
SDB takes care of storage of the stuff, vigilance can be utilized in small doses in an "ordinary" life
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Excellent post... very complete. I have always kept my home secure with measures such as outlined above. I prefer my collection at home....to enjoy.. that is why I collect. Cheers, RickO[/q
Quite agree , home security is paramount and the advice given on the thread sound. Nothing beats a well loved dog,your love is returned in spades with extra scoops of loyalty.My own hears things long before i do and is already telling me before i catch on or see headlights etc ... Mr Smith and Mr Wesson are constant companions out here in the boonies and bylaws such as open carry do deter attempts i believe.
Larry L.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Bottom line on many things. I notice (and do not disagree with) many who are 'pro-force' when faced with a home invasion / robbery / home defense scenario. We always approach, but seldom confront, the main issue of being armed at home. 'When faced with a serious (maybe not automatically "life or death", but serious) threat at home, can you instantly react and use deadly force on an intruder without remorse, doubt, or future issues (yes . .when fully warranted by logic and law)? Many of us can . . . some cannot. If you choose to use a layer of defense which includes deadly force, you must come to terms with the thought well in advance. Training is key, but at the heart of the matter, can you defend your coins (and of course your family), with deadly force? Taking a life (or lives) is a concern for some, when it comes down to actually pulling the trigger.
Have you made that decision and played the outcome through in your mind? I do not have any issues with it . . .but I believe that is the key component to home defense many firms, contractors, and specialists fail to fully confront.
I have no qualms with any form of home defense or defense of your coins should you decide to keep them at home. But . . .
Have you made the decision yet?
Drunner
One is enough two is better, each weigh about 125 lbs.
Very alert and rome freely. You might make it to a window, and may even get
in, but you won't make it out.
Also, yes, don't leave anything that you can't afford to lose or with sentimental value in the home. A visit to the SDB once in awhile to admire your collection, is well worth the cost and hassle involved.
<< <i>I originally posted the below comments on a thread about a woman who was wiped out when burglars made away with her entire safe which contained $500K in coins, gold, etc.
I was thinking that it might be worthwhile to post my response to this woman's great misfortune as a separate thread for the benefit of those who didn't read the thread about the robbery.
For what it's worth, here are a few thoughts on security for those who keep high end coin collections (or any other high six or seven figure collectibles) at home...
How utterly sad to read about this.
The bottom line, if one does not want to keep such a collection in a SDB, many LAYERS of security are a MUST!!
If keeping this kind of $ in coins at home one should have good motion activated exterior lighting, well trimmed hedges w/no hiding places near the house, very solid doors, properly installed, commercial grade, highly pick resistant locks (Medico, Schlage Primus, etc.), Armor Coat type film on all first floor, deck, etc. (i.e., possible entry point) windows, a tip tier, monitored security system w/cell back up, high-end day/night security cameras w/several weeks of storage on the system's DVR (depending on how long/often one is away, remote (i.e., P.C.) accessible in-home cameras (e.g., ADT Pulse, or the like), a very heavy, TOP quality safe, (e.g., large, top tier Fort Knox or the like) ideally w/it's own security zone so which can stay armed while the rest of the system is unarmed, ideally the safe is in a safe room w/poured concrete walls and ceiling and a very high quality vault door.
Consider a big, protective dog. Criminals are absolutely terrified of dogs. FBI studies have borne this out. Professional, hardened criminals consistently cite large dogs as the single thing that scares them most.
Most importantly keep quiet and be sure that your friends and family who know about your collection do the same. Keep the safe/safe room out of sight from anyone whom you don't specifically want to know about it - and that list should be very, very short.
If some dirt bag breaks in to your home he will not be in position to just haul off a 700 lb safe. Clearly the criminal know exactly what he was going for.
If one is not VERY serious about security then don't keep a half million in coins at home.
While perhaps not for everyone, I'm a big believer in being well armed and very well trained in addition to other security measures.
If you keep a very high end collection at home and have great security some dirt bag could decide to have you access the collection at gun point. Another great reason to learn some practical martial arts - great cardo w/a survival benefit which extends well beyond just the cardio value.
The SDB is a fantastic - likely the best - idea. Of course, as a forum member noted above, one of the greatest joys of collecting is being able to enjoy your collection at will. Everything is a trade-off. Be careful.
All of the above (excusive of a firearm, firearm and DT training - highly variable cost, certainly not for everyone) can be had for less than $60K for a 5000 square foot home. If you have high six figures or seven figures to spend on coins, this is a relatively small investment in security.
It can be made to look very nice as well - security does not have to be ugly. In fact there are lots of side benefits: one or one's family can retreat to a safe room if intruders enter. A poured concrete safe room is very cheap if done when one builds. A very high quality vault door (e.g.., Ft. Knox Executive series) is only a few grand (stainless steel package is a must, it's much harder to torch).
Get slightly tinted, 100% UV blocking security window film. It will substantially lower energy costs and dramatically decrease fading of furniture, floors, photos, artwork, etc. For deck doors and windows in stairwells, if one falls on the windows one will not be lacerated by broken glass.
Connect heat, smoke, water, carbon monoxide and gas detectors to your alarm system. These may save your home and your life.
Sorry to be long-winded. I've just seen so many people with tons of money in collectibles and no security. It amazes me. They're shocked when they're hit. They get serious about security after the fact. If I can spare even one collector the grief of being robbed then I'll be thrilled.
I feel so sorry for the victim. What a huge loss. Unfortunately, other then the safe it seems that she didn't have much security at all.
(Edited: please see comments on insurance below.) >>
I nominate this for "Post of the Day". OK, so I'm 1 day late...
Some very good tips for those who choose to take the risk of not storing your expensive coins in a safety deposit box.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>I've heard of people having two safes...one obvious safe that has most of the stuff in it, but the better stuff kept in a hidden safe. >>
I've always wanted a secret safe in the floor of my living room
Successful Transactions With: JoeLewis, Mkman123, Harry779, Grote15, gdavis70, Kryptonitecomics
<< <i>I've heard of people having two safes...one obvious safe that has most of the stuff in it, but the better stuff kept in a hidden safe. >>
Shhhhhh...
That said, last night we did have a rare disturbance coming home from the fireworks show... a helicopter was doing laps around our neighborhood and police cars were driving up and down many of the streets. Don't know what happened there, but I'll lay odds that whoever they were looking for got caught, as it got silent again after only 15 minutes or so. In the ten years I have lived there, this has only happened to my recollection twice.
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>I originally posted the below comments on a thread about a woman who was wiped out when burglars made away with her entire safe which contained $500K in coins, gold, etc.
I was thinking that it might be worthwhile to post my response to this woman's great misfortune as a separate thread for the benefit of those who didn't read the thread about the robbery.
For what it's worth, here are a few thoughts on security for those who keep high end coin collections (or any other high six or seven figure collectibles) at home...
How utterly sad to read about this.
The bottom line, if one does not want to keep such a collection in a SDB, many LAYERS of security are a MUST!!
If keeping this kind of $ in coins at home one should have good motion activated exterior lighting, well trimmed hedges w/no hiding places near the house, very solid doors, properly installed, commercial grade, highly pick resistant locks (Medico, Schlage Primus, etc.), Armor Coat type film on all first floor, deck, etc. (i.e., possible entry point) windows, a tip tier, monitored security system w/cell back up, high-end day/night security cameras w/several weeks of storage on the system's DVR (depending on how long/often one is away, remote (i.e., P.C.) accessible in-home cameras (e.g., ADT Pulse, or the like), a very heavy, TOP quality safe, (e.g., large, top tier Fort Knox or the like) ideally w/it's own security zone so which can stay armed while the rest of the system is unarmed, ideally the safe is in a safe room w/poured concrete walls and ceiling and a very high quality vault door.
Consider a big, protective dog. Criminals are absolutely terrified of dogs. FBI studies have borne this out. Professional, hardened criminals consistently cite large dogs as the single thing that scares them most.
Most importantly keep quiet and be sure that your friends and family who know about your collection do the same. Keep the safe/safe room out of sight from anyone whom you don't specifically want to know about it - and that list should be very, very short.
If some dirt bag breaks in to your home he will not be in position to just haul off a 700 lb safe. Clearly the criminal know exactly what he was going for.
If one is not VERY serious about security then don't keep a half million in coins at home.
While perhaps not for everyone, I'm a big believer in being well armed and very well trained in addition to other security measures.
If you keep a very high end collection at home and have great security some dirt bag could decide to have you access the collection at gun point. Another great reason to learn some practical martial arts - great cardo w/a survival benefit which extends well beyond just the cardio value.
The SDB is a fantastic - likely the best - idea. Of course, as a forum member noted above, one of the greatest joys of collecting is being able to enjoy your collection at will. Everything is a trade-off. Be careful.
All of the above (excusive of a firearm, firearm and DT training - highly variable cost, certainly not for everyone) can be had for less than $60K for a 5000 square foot home. If you have high six figures or seven figures to spend on coins, this is a relatively small investment in security.
It can be made to look very nice as well - security does not have to be ugly. In fact there are lots of side benefits: one or one's family can retreat to a safe room if intruders enter. A poured concrete safe room is very cheap if done when one builds. A very high quality vault door (e.g.., Ft. Knox Executive series) is only a few grand (stainless steel package is a must, it's much harder to torch).
Get slightly tinted, 100% UV blocking security window film. It will substantially lower energy costs and dramatically decrease fading of furniture, floors, photos, artwork, etc. For deck doors and windows in stairwells, if one falls on the windows one will not be lacerated by broken glass.
Connect heat, smoke, water, carbon monoxide and gas detectors to your alarm system. These may save your home and your life.
Sorry to be long-winded. I've just seen so many people with tons of money in collectibles and no security. It amazes me. They're shocked when they're hit. They get serious about security after the fact. If I can spare even one collector the grief of being robbed then I'll be thrilled.
I feel so sorry for the victim. What a huge loss. Unfortunately, other then the safe it seems that she didn't have much security at all.
(Edited: please see comments on insurance below.) >>
I nominate this for "Post of the Day". OK, so I'm 1 day late...
Some very good tips for those who choose to take the risk of not storing your expensive coins in a safety deposit box. >>
Thanks - glad that you found it helpful :-)
<< <i>For those with very valuable collections in the high 6 or 7 figures I think multiple SDB's are a must. I would be far more concerned with a forced break in while family members are at home and a possible hostage situation or murder. No "stuff" is worth that kind of risk IMO. >>
dragon,
If some dirt bag(s) think you have your stuff at home, do you think they are going to really believe you when you say it is in a SDB? If so, then if you have it at home, just tell them it is in a SDB.
<< <i>Bottom line on many things. I notice (and do not disagree with) many who are 'pro-force' when faced with a home invasion / robbery / home defense scenario. We always approach, but seldom confront, the main issue of being armed at home. 'When faced with a serious (maybe not automatically "life or death", but serious) threat at home, can you instantly react and use deadly force on an intruder without remorse, doubt, or future issues (yes . .when fully warranted by logic and law)? Many of us can . . . some cannot. If you choose to use a layer of defense which includes deadly force, you must come to terms with the thought well in advance. Training is key, but at the heart of the matter, can you defend your coins (and of course your family), with deadly force? Taking a life (or lives) is a concern for some, when it comes down to actually pulling the trigger.
Have you made that decision and played the outcome through in your mind? I do not have any issues with it . . .but I believe that is the key component to home defense many firms, contractors, and specialists fail to fully confront.
I have no qualms with any form of home defense or defense of your coins should you decide to keep them at home. But . . .
Have you made the decision yet?
Drunner >>
Good points. A lot more to gun protection than just owning a gun.
Like Ricko, I enjoy my coins at home and could never be happy with a SDB for coins.
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've heard of people having two safes...one obvious safe that has most of the stuff in it, but the better stuff kept in a hidden safe. >>
Shhhhhh... >>
Buy some cheap copies off Ebay, and let 'em have those. Most thugs don't know the difference right away. Only the smarter ones.