Is this Lincoln error real???

Manorcourtman · June 25, 2011 10:12AM

Double struck??

morgansforever · June 25, 2011 10:25AM

Interesting indeed, but is it a genuine Mint error?

Coins911 · June 25, 2011 10:29AM

i saw one like that before but it they want $2,900 they should spend $50 and send it to PCGS

OffMetal · June 25, 2011 10:30AM

Something isn't adding up for me. It looks like the strikes were done with different dies.

Ben

GrumpyEd · June 25, 2011 10:36AM

I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw?

Rampage · June 25, 2011 10:38AM

It does not look genuine to me. I have many on-center double strikes, and none look like this one.

JamesMurray · June 25, 2011 10:45AM

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics

LALASD4 · June 25, 2011 10:53AM

Does not look right to me.

CoinCoins · June 25, 2011 10:55AM

interesting.........

everything he's selling/has sold is in slabs for the most part, except this '53 and this indian - i betya he's tried but they kicked it back.

i dunno, would that classify as a doubled die (if it actually was a mint made thing)?

GrumpyEd · June 25, 2011 11:00AM

<< same seller sold.. I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

Interesting, the buyer liked that raw 1799.

<< great seller, fast shipping, good communication >>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<< i dunno, would that classify as a doubled die (if it actually was a mint made thing)? >>

If it is a real mint error it would be a rotated double struck coin.

astrorat · June 25, 2011 11:22AM

Not real.

BlindedByEgo · June 25, 2011 11:54AM

<< Not real. >>

You say that with confidence. Please elaborate.

CaptHenway · June 25, 2011 1:00PM

Looks like a false die double strike to me.
TD

seanq · June 25, 2011 1:56PM

<< Looks like a false die double strike to me.
TD >>

I agree, the kicker is that the second strike was slightly off center yet the planchet did not distort and the coin does not appear broadstruck. A genuine double strike would have been under much more pressure, the coin would have expanded and the original strike details much less prevalent.

Sean Reynolds

greatnortherncoin · June 25, 2011 2:02PM

what does fred think

mkman123 · June 25, 2011 2:58PM

Aren't the Chinese faking errors too?

MsMorrisine · June 25, 2011 3:00PM

I trust sean's opinion, too.

I also note that the reverse double is also very much offset differently than the obverse.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · June 25, 2011 6:19PM

I think it's real.

gonzer · June 25, 2011 9:40PM

Fake. The IHC is also comical in their attempt to suggest a DS.

astrorat · June 25, 2011 11:44PM

<< 

<< Not real. >>

You say that with confidence. Please elaborate. >>

Sorry...I left my computer after my response. My thinking was as follows:

1. The first strike looks off-center, but doesn't have the appearance of an out of collar strike (i.e. broadstrike).
2. The date from the first strike is weak even though it was struck into the field area of both strikes.
3. The strength of "RTY" and the date from the first strike look wrong (too strong) as if metal flow was different from between strikes. [not a good explanation of what is bouncing around in my head, but the best I can do at this hour!

)
4. Overall it just looks off ... something about it seems wrong.

JRocco · June 26, 2011 12:17AM

Some very wise voices have spoken.
I concur for the record.

LALASD4 · June 26, 2011 1:43AM

I recall seeing many of this kind of fakes in the past, The strength of the 1st and 2nd strike looks almost the same.

BlindedByEgo · June 26, 2011 1:56AM

<< 

<< 

<< Not real. >>

You say that with confidence. Please elaborate. >>

Sorry...I left my computer after my response. My thinking was as follows:

1. The first strike looks off-center, but doesn't have the appearance of an out of collar strike (i.e. broadstrike).
2. The date from the first strike is weak even though it was struck into the field area of both strikes.
3. The strength of "RTY" and the date from the first strike look wrong (too strong) as if metal flow was different from between strikes. [not a good explanation of what is bouncing around in my head, but the best I can do at this hour!

)
4. Overall it just looks off ... something about it seems wrong. >>

Thank you. I asked so that I might learn more, rather than questioning your judgement.

astrorat · June 26, 2011 5:43AM

<< Thank you. I asked so that I might learn more, rather than questioning your judgement. >>

That's what I figured ... no worries.

errormaven · June 26, 2011 12:37PM

This could be a genuine double strike with a weak, slightly off-center second strike. Such errors do exist, but they're quite rare. That said, I've seen too many double strikes (mostly in-collar on both strikes) that look like this from the 1940's and from the 1950's to grant them the benefit of the doubt.

In this coin, the most disturbing feature is the impression of the internal margin of the design rim of the second strike in the field below and to the left of Lincoln's bust. This feature should only show up with a particularly strong second strike. A weak strike shouldn't show it at all.

I'd say the preponderance of the evidence indicates a second strike delivered by a fake pair of dies. I have seen one or two coins like this slabbed by reputable grading services. But that doesn't mean they're genuine. It just means that they're very well executed.

ambro51 · June 26, 2011 12:39PM

You look at what happened when Dan Carr made a new Peace Dollar die and overstruck.

All trace, or most trace, of the undertype is obliterated.

I dont know about that penny, but I dont think it ever seen the inside of a US mint.

stealer · June 26, 2011 12:45PM

<< 

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

That looks a bit small to be a bust dollar...

gonzer · June 26, 2011 9:31PM

<< it ever seen the inside >>

Ambro, you should be ashamed!

Alltheabove76 · June 26, 2011 11:57PM

<< 

<< 

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

That looks a bit small to be a bust dollar... >>

He got a positive feedback for it and it was a BIN. So id say it was fine.

seanq · June 27, 2011 12:26AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

That looks a bit small to be a bust dollar... >>

He got a positive feedback for it and it was a BIN. So id say it was fine. >>

And I'd say positive feedback is a lousy way to authenticate something. I wouldn't assume either the buyer or the seller knows what they are doing.

Sean Reynolds

FredWeinberg · June 27, 2011 12:30AM

Good Morning -

I'd say it's a counterfeit 2nd Strike,
with false dies. (based on what I
can see in the scans)

It's very similar in appearance to
most of the Double Struck in collar
Cents that are illustrated in the
old Spadone book on Mint errors -
it was either done around the same
time as those in the book (probably
the early-mid '60's), or at least by
the same method.

seanq · June 27, 2011 12:38AM

<< You look at what happened when Dan Carr made a new Peace Dollar die and overstruck.

All trace, or most trace, of the undertype is obliterated.

I dont know about that penny, but I dont think it ever seen the inside of a US mint. >>

The coin itself is genuine so it saw the inside of the Mint when it was born, but the second strike was most likely done outside.

Sean Reynolds

astrorat · June 27, 2011 12:46AM

<< Good Morning -

I'd say it's a counterfeit 2nd Strike,
with false dies. (based on what I
can see in the scans)

It's very similar in appearance to
most of the Double Struck in collar
Cents that are illustrated in the
old Spadone book on Mint errors -
it was either done around the same
time as those in the book (probably
the early-mid '60's), or at least by
the same method. >>

Thanks, Fred. So, are you saying:

1. It's a counterfeit second strike (with false dies) on an original (authentic) cent?
2. The images of double-struck in collar pieces in Spadone's book are of counterfeit errors?

I'm not arguing, I just want to be sure I understand.

Lane

CaptHenway · June 27, 2011 1:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

That looks a bit small to be a bust dollar... >>

For the record, that's not a 2x2. It's a 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 cardboard. They used to make them to hold foreign crowns and other coins larger than a standard dollar, like this one.

FredWeinberg · June 27, 2011 1:38AM

Lane,

1. Yes

2. Yes - at least for the vast majority of them

astrorat · June 27, 2011 4:04AM

<< Lane,

1. Yes

2. Yes - at least for the vast majority of them >>

Thanks, Fred.

stealer · June 27, 2011 4:33AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I don't trust it.

Like the listing says get it graded for top money, since the seller knows that why is he selling it raw? >>

same seller sold..

I wouldnt have expected this to be in a 2x2 and dodgy pics >>

That looks a bit small to be a bust dollar... >>

For the record, that's not a 2x2. It's a 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 cardboard. They used to make them to hold foreign crowns and other coins larger than a standard dollar, like this one. >>

Thanks

greatnortherncoin · June 27, 2011 4:58AM

fred knows

Manorcourtman · June 28, 2011 12:18PM

Thanks for the replies everyone! Maybe someone should send the seller a link to this thread!

Is this Lincoln error real???

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