Possible scam has me a bit puzzled

notwilight · May 18, 2011 11:56PM

I'm about as good as smelling a scam as anyone. Conversely, I'm willing to walk closer to the edge of being scammed than most because of my confidence that I can avoid the scam. As a result I've completed many good sales that others would have walked away from.

I got an email that looks 90% scammish to me but I'm not sure what to think. I don't think there is a way that scammers can get info they can use just by you sending them an invoice, is there?

Here is the email I got:

Hi, I would like to buy this but I do not have an ebay account nor do I wish to make one. However, I do have a PayPal account. I am willing to pay the listed price plus the cost of FedEx overnight shipping to Bronx, NY. I assure you that I am a serious buyer. If you can kindly remove item from auction and send me a PayPal money request of TOTAL after shipping to xxxxxxxxxxx256@gmail.com . I will have the funds sent within 24 hours.

Thank You!
Jessica

now there are a few red flags here: in a hurry, specifying shipping method that I don't usually use, tone of note, name doesn't match email return address... and finally, the email they sent me doesn't have a paypal account associated with it.

Normally I would send the invoice and see if I got paid. I replied that I would be using USPS express mail insured and that paypal tells me that there is no account associated with this email. So what can they gain from having me send an invoice to this email other than they intend to pay it with a hijacked account? Now I was planning to check with paypal for a hijacked account before shipping...but there is no account, hijacked or otherwise, associated with the email. BTW, I have xxx'd out the email address to keep wannabe internet superheros from sending them "pre-emptive" emails. I think there is a 5-10% chance they are legit.

Any thoughts?

--Jerry

ricko · May 19, 2011 12:00AM

You could be right...no apparent problem. However, scammers keep coming up with new, ingenious ways to fleece the unknowing. With the danger signs apparent, I would not do business with this 'customer'. Cheers, RickO

TomB · May 19, 2011 12:02AM

You have expended more energy dealing with this person by simply typing out this post than I would have expended.

astrorat · May 19, 2011 12:02AM

I think your gut feeling is correct. I am imagining the distraught email sent to PayPal, "I trusted this seller and he sent me an empty box! I don't know why he would do that! I need my money back so I can buy food for my family. Please help me!"

Perhaps the requirement of a USPS money order(s) would scare off a scammer? (assuming that the MOs were not forged or stolen)

Bobbo50 · May 19, 2011 12:05AM

<< I'm about as good as smelling a scam as anyone.
...
Any thoughts? >>

You're kidding right?
This scam should be obvious on its face.
I am surprised you even wasted your time wondering about it.

mingot · May 19, 2011 12:07AM

"Jessica"

lol

Anyhow, the english is pretty good, but this is not a native speaker to boot. It's funny to me, because playing female is probably something that works better in most cases, but not with coins.

notwilight · May 19, 2011 12:11AM

<< 

<< I'm about as good as smelling a scam as anyone.
...
Any thoughts? >>

You're kidding right?
This scam should be obvious on its face.
I am surprised you even wasted your time wondering about it. >>

Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry

sonoranmonsoon · May 19, 2011 12:14AM

Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item.

Bobbo50 · May 19, 2011 12:16AM

<< Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item. >>

TheBigB · May 19, 2011 12:17AM

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

Then you should proceed.

notwilight · May 19, 2011 12:18AM

<< Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item. >>

That was my thought too but as I said, there is no paypal account associated with the email address.

--Jerry

notwilight · May 19, 2011 12:19AM

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

Then you should proceed. >>

Maybe I should dance with the one that brung me and keep following my instincts. I'm looking for comments from those who also have good instincts, not sarcasm from the peanut gallery. --Jerry

habaraca · May 19, 2011 12:19AM

I have one now trying to get me to send $200 to a shipping company for a listing I have on Craigs list.

Then the shipping company will give me a code number that I send back to paypal and they will release
the $700 that is in a holding account to be put into my account.

I have gotten 3 or 4 very official looking e-mails from ""Paypal""" telling me of this reserve account and
asking for the shipping number, so they can out the $700 into my account.

One way to check is to hit RETURN on the e-mail and see the address it is going back to.

These SCAMMERS are really going to a lot of work to try and steal our dollars

Bobbo50 · May 19, 2011 12:22AM

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

It's your choice.
I wouldn't touch that deal under any circumstances, just far too many red flags for my liking.

TheBigB · May 19, 2011 12:27AM

<< 

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

Then you should proceed. >>

Maybe I should dance with the one that brung me and keep following my instincts. I'm looking for comments from those who also have good instincts, not sarcasm from the peanut gallery. --Jerry >>

It's only sarcasm because you are not open to advice and spending much time on a possible scammer.

What is the upside here?

Bobbo50 · May 19, 2011 12:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

Then you should proceed. >>

Maybe I should dance with the one that brung me and keep following my instincts. I'm looking for comments from those who also have good instincts, not sarcasm from the peanut gallery. --Jerry >>

I didn't detect any sarcasm in the responses, I certainly didn't mean to sound sarcastic.
No need to start insulting people for the "crime" of responding to your query, is there?
I've been selling on eBay since it started and feel my instincts are as good as any.
The scenario you presented is obviously an invitation for trouble, IMO.
You, of course, are free to follow your instincts and do as you feel is best.

llafoe · May 19, 2011 12:28AM

Jessica said " I assure you... I am... serious..." Nope, no red flags there!

Justacommeman · May 19, 2011 12:28AM

I vote fishing. Spit it out and swim away. Remember trophy fish get caught as well.

Jessica from the Bronx just rolls of my tongue funny. Maybe it's just all my years of living in NYC that jades me.

There will be other buyers for your item right?

MJ

notwilight · May 19, 2011 12:30AM

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

It's your choice.
I wouldn't touch that deal under any circumstances, just far too many red flags for my liking. >>

And I'm not trying to change that. Those of you would would immediately turn and run should continue to do so.

The real root of my curiosity is whether there is a new scam out there where I am asked to send an invoice to an address that has no account associated with it yet. I can see no way that they can get info about my account that way. Paypal will send them a note asking if the invoice is expected and inviting them to open a paypal account and pay it. All quite legit if they are a legit buyer. But if they are a legit buyer they will respond to my email and tell me what went wrong...so far no response.

--jerry

AUandAG · May 19, 2011 12:37AM

Jerry, do you just want to walk the line? Obviously you have the coin up on ebay. Send Jessica there if she wants it.

If she does not buy it won't it sell on Ebay? Ebay is still free to sign up for, right? She, as a buyer, would get the coin
right away, right?

Good luck, but do just walk and thank her kindly.

bob

mrcoin3 · May 19, 2011 12:41AM

Not having a paypal account associated with the email addy you received the inquiry from isn't too odd. I have several email addys, but only one with a paypal account tied to it. If you receive money from his paypal account wouldn't it have a confirmed addy to ship to; making a hijacked account a mute point? You could also check the account with paypal after you receive the $$.

One thing that bothers me is her saying that she doesn't have an eBay account and doesn't want one. So, why is she shopping on eBay then?

Justacommeman · May 19, 2011 12:46AM

<< 
One thing that bothers me is her saying that she doesn't have an eBay account and doesn't want one. So, why is she shopping on eBay then? >>

I actually don't and won't have an Ebay account. Yes, I will surf EBAY from time to ime. Once in a great while something will jump out at me and I have contacted the seller directly.

Markie from Manhattan

LALASD4 · May 19, 2011 12:55AM

Let her know that once an item is listed on Ebay it is against Paypal rules to use Paypal without using Ebay. Ask her to send the money by Western Union.

coirn · May 19, 2011 12:59AM

Considering Jessica (we're not as suspicious of women than we are of other men) could easily purchase the item you are selling (based on perusing your listings and seeing the type of material you sell) within blocks of the Bronx you must ask yourself, "why is she going to such trouble with me?".

When that question is not so easily answered, walk away.

It's healthy and fun to walk close to the scammers edge I suppose, but you are also the same individual that has had preventable difficulties with other (an overseas buyer rings a bell) sales- or at least that is the impression you offer via many of your past threads on this type of topic.

19Lyds · May 19, 2011 1:03AM

<< 

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

It's your choice.
I wouldn't touch that deal under any circumstances, just far too many red flags for my liking. >>

And I'm not trying to change that. Those of you would would immediately turn and run should continue to do so.

The real root of my curiosity is whether there is a new scam out there where I am asked to send an invoice to an address that has no account associated with it yet. I can see no way that they can get info about my account that way. Paypal will send them a note asking if the invoice is expected and inviting them to open a paypal account and pay it. All quite legit if they are a legit buyer. But if they are a legit buyer they will respond to my email and tell me what went wrong...so far no response.

--jerry >>

I can't see how they would extract anymore information than what they already have Jerry other than what your PayPal email address might be.

mingot · May 19, 2011 1:10AM

OP, it's a remailer scam. Hijacked paypal. Remailer in the US (another victim, usually) will repackage your merch and shoot it off to (most likely) russia or ukraine.

erickso1 · May 19, 2011 1:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< Like I said, I've made sales to buyers you would walk away from. --Jerry >>

It's your choice.
I wouldn't touch that deal under any circumstances, just far too many red flags for my liking. >>

And I'm not trying to change that. Those of you would would immediately turn and run should continue to do so.

The real root of my curiosity is whether there is a new scam out there where I am asked to send an invoice to an address that has no account associated with it yet. I can see no way that they can get info about my account that way. Paypal will send them a note asking if the invoice is expected and inviting them to open a paypal account and pay it. All quite legit if they are a legit buyer. But if they are a legit buyer they will respond to my email and tell me what went wrong...so far no response.

--jerry >>

As long as I didn't have anything on the line I would have probably teased this out also. Be interesting, and possibly educational, to see what the end result would be. Best to hear of a new scam that was brought to light under a controlled environment then through a post of actual loss.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Billet7 · May 19, 2011 1:33AM

Not worth it.

Julian · May 19, 2011 3:42AM

I got the exact same email last evening and replied to her this morning!!

ianrussell · May 19, 2011 3:45AM

This does not look right.

- Ian

ElKevvo · May 19, 2011 3:56AM

Yeah something is up...I suspect the person is going to attempt to have you ship the items while Paypal fixes the 'problems' with their account. If you have an alt email address that you use I would send an email from that addr asking for their PayPal account email so you can verify first. I would not contact them with my PayPal info...

But I live in a world of Internet security so am always suspicious of these things....just how I would approach it to avoid getting burned and letting them know more about me and my paypal acct.

K

silverpop · May 19, 2011 3:59AM

scam

MsMorrisine · May 19, 2011 4:19AM

<< Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item. >>

I agree.

Jerry might chance it on this one, but I would not.

My fears is that it is a hijacked PayPal account.

I wouldn't bother to reply.

I would contact eBay about a proposed off eBay transaction, since they do own PayPal and the two together might look into this.

Chump4Change · May 19, 2011 4:28AM

Scammers are the most creative individuals; most are smarter than me, so I don't know what the scam is here. Although I'm confident this is a scam and wouldn't touch this as there are far too many red flags (the urgency, money is no object, stating they are "serious" or "not a scam", aren't registered/verified by companies that have safeguards in place to prohibit their scam from working, anonymous email, their lack of mentioning the specific item you're selling, etc). The email address provided is a proxy of some sort and will be used to launder the exchange. I'm betting the paypal address they'll provide you will not be verified.

silverpop · May 19, 2011 4:34AM

the old saying" if it sounds too good to be true it is"comes to mind on this

derryb · May 19, 2011 4:40AM

<< 

<< Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item. >>

That was my thought too but as I said, there is no paypal account associated with the email address.

--Jerry >>

That's because "Jessica" was able to hijack the paypal account but not the associated email account. "Jessica" is having to use a different email account to contact you.

Chump4Change · May 19, 2011 4:41AM

Basically any time there are special requests that go outside of a normal process/transaction; those should be avoided. If someone wants an item that bad, then they'll go through the proper channels to obtain it. And if not, I'm sure there are others who will want it equally as bad that will.

notwilight · May 19, 2011 4:42AM

<< the old saying" if it sounds too good to be true it is"comes to mind on this >>

nothing about this sounds too good to be true. Offering to buy at my sell price. --jerry

notwilight · May 19, 2011 4:43AM

<< OP, it's a remailer scam. Hijacked paypal. Remailer in the US (another victim, usually) will repackage your merch and shoot it off to (most likely) russia or ukraine. >>

Not a hijacked acct. They asked me to send an invoice to an email address which does not have an account. --jerry

notwilight · May 19, 2011 4:44AM

<< I got the exact same email last evening and replied to her this morning!! >>

That raises my scam confidence to 99.5%. --jerry

notwilight · May 19, 2011 5:03AM

Still no reply from Jessica and still don't understand how or who she was trying to scam but I'm thoroughly convinced this is a scam now. I think it is worthwhile for us to know how this scam works and who the target is (me or paypal). I wonder if paypal is offering seller protection without good data on new accounts to bring in business and they get left holding the bag if I sent out the invoice as requested.

I'll post if I find out anything.

I will also add for those of you who think this is a grand waste of time:

1. understanding how the scam works is key to detecting a scam. I still want to know how this one works.
2. I may have warned someone else, (most of us are able to recognize this as highly likely to be a scam) and finding that others got the same email was helpful.
3. I have several repeat customers who don't communicate well including one with poor english, one with poor "social skills" for lack of a better term, both have been kicked off ebay and both buy from me frequently. They send me emails and we do the deals off ebay. I keep it simple and we have no conflicts. I have some older customers who just don't like computers or trust sending money through the internet. They read ebay and call me up to buy things and mail a check. So I don't have a problem with buyers without ebay accounts.

--Jerry

lkeigwin · May 19, 2011 5:04AM

<< 

<< I got the exact same email last evening and replied to her this morning!! >>

That raises my scam confidence to 99.5%. --jerry >>

Yup! That would do it for me. Before this came up I was thinking of plausible explanations -- borrowed ebay account, email from a friend's computer, I knew a Jessica when I worked in the Bronx and liked her...

Lance.

LindeDad · May 19, 2011 6:39AM

Ok now that the scam is most likely exposed how do we get it shut down? Even though many of us will not be targets is there an easy way to get cyber crime officials to act on identified wrong doers?

jdillane · May 19, 2011 8:31AM

If you want to have fun, I like the Western Union payment idea. Or, advise that you have business in the Bronx next week and offer to arrange for a face to face exchange.

Coins101 · May 19, 2011 8:57AM

<< I have one now trying to get me to send $200 to a shipping company for a listing I have on Craigs list.

Then the shipping company will give me a code number that I send back to paypal and they will release
the $700 that is in a holding account to be put into my account.

I have gotten 3 or 4 very official looking e-mails from ""Paypal""" telling me of this reserve account and
asking for the shipping number, so they can out the $700 into my account.

One way to check is to hit RETURN on the e-mail and see the address it is going back to.

These SCAMMERS are really going to a lot of work to try and steal our dollars >>

I had one of those "Scams" a couple years ago from a listing on Craig's List. However, instead of using PayPal, he overnighted a cashier's checks to me. Well, he sent it to my local PD Office. I strung this guy on for weeks, using a false name and a gmail account just to have fun. But, after a bit, i decided to come clean and tell him I snookered him.

As for the OP, a USPS MO should do the trick.

BillyKingsley · May 19, 2011 9:16AM

Just FWIW, I do at least dozen paypal transactions every year, not related to ebay, sometimes more, but I don't have a paypal account. I do all the set up and then use my mom's account, tied in to her email. (an email she created just specifically to use on Paypal)

Not everyone who doesn't have a paypal account tied to their email is a scammer.

mingot · May 19, 2011 9:36AM

op wanted details of what sort of scam it is

bestclser1 · May 19, 2011 11:41AM

If it looks like a duck,and quacks like a duck,chances are its a freaking duck

Coins101 · May 19, 2011 11:52AM

<< If it looks like a duck,and quacks like a duck,chances are its a freaking duck

>>

You would have thought I would have said that but my icon an't no duck, that's a target even though it's a spoony.

sonoranmonsoon · May 19, 2011 10:32PM

<< 

<< Sounds like it is a hijacked Paypal account. If you are still tempted, check with Paypal and see what they think. Just don't mention it involves an ebay item. >>

That was my thought too but as I said, there is no paypal account associated with the email address.

--Jerry >>

I forgot about the no paypal account associated with the email address. If you still want to proceed, then agree to the deal. Once they pay you, you will know the account. DO NOT SHIP COINS UNTIL YOU CHECK EVERYTHING OUT! Once you have the paypal email account contact PayPal and see if the deal is legit. Also, email the account directly yourself to verify ownership. If it is a scam, they will reverse the payment, and you will still have coins in hand, because you delayed shipping. No loss. If the deal looks legit, wait a little longer, then ship. There may still be a risk of a later reversal, but you will have reduced your risk considerably. They can not neg you on the shipping delay, because the deal will be off ebay.

WillieBoyd2 · May 19, 2011 11:16PM

Several years ago I sold a number of high-value items (not coins) on Ebay.

I would get letters like the one here, wanting me to stop the sale and ship the item somewhere,
accompanied by a story.

Scam.

Possible scam has me a bit puzzled

Comments

Leave a Comment