Who wants to guess whether I'll beat a buyer in an SNAD case? UPDATE 5/15
airplanenut
Posts: 22,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
I happily take returns. They don't come often, but as I think any seller should, I have a full return policy in the event of any dissatisfaction. I logged into PayPal today to find an SNAD case for this.
Reason listed: "Color difference (severe)"
Comments: "The coin was advertised as extremely fine details, but I received it and the coloring is different and an aggressive cleaning was done to it and has alot of hairline scratches on both surfaces"
Now, as I said, if I had been contacted, I would have been happy to just take the return. But, the coin was delivered a month ago, the consignor long-since paid, and this positive feedback had been left: "Nice Coin Thanks Fast ship"
I should also add that the the description even said the coin was cleaned: "An attractive piece with light color. Hairlines indicate that the coin has been cleaned, but the color indicates that it is beginning to retone, and that the cleaning was likely tone long ago."
From my viewpoint, the buyer had more than enough time to contact me about a return, and my business model doesn't allow for me to financially back every item I sell indefinitely (nor should any dealer's, whether or not they sell items they own or that are consigned). So, I think this is a rare event where I have a case to make to fight the SNAD. Who wants to speculate on the outcome?
Jeremy
PS- As you can guess, the buyer also never emailed me about a problem at any point, then or now.
Reason listed: "Color difference (severe)"
Comments: "The coin was advertised as extremely fine details, but I received it and the coloring is different and an aggressive cleaning was done to it and has alot of hairline scratches on both surfaces"
Now, as I said, if I had been contacted, I would have been happy to just take the return. But, the coin was delivered a month ago, the consignor long-since paid, and this positive feedback had been left: "Nice Coin Thanks Fast ship"
I should also add that the the description even said the coin was cleaned: "An attractive piece with light color. Hairlines indicate that the coin has been cleaned, but the color indicates that it is beginning to retone, and that the cleaning was likely tone long ago."
From my viewpoint, the buyer had more than enough time to contact me about a return, and my business model doesn't allow for me to financially back every item I sell indefinitely (nor should any dealer's, whether or not they sell items they own or that are consigned). So, I think this is a rare event where I have a case to make to fight the SNAD. Who wants to speculate on the outcome?
Jeremy
PS- As you can guess, the buyer also never emailed me about a problem at any point, then or now.
JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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Comments
then you will lose. It's that simple. State your case and if the rep knows coins
then you will have a sympathetic ear, and prevail.
bob
since it is PayPal and PayPal people are not numimatists, you'll lose.
I think you have a good reason to win though, and think you should fight it. There is a chance you will win.
The hook in this case may be the color difference claim.
Do you have a professional coin photography web site you can show PayPal to prove you're no "photo loser" ??
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
penquino blocked.
With hairlined coins, you might want to consider one angled shot that at least partially shows the hairlines, just to cover yourself from buyers who refuse to read the text before parting with their money.
Issues like this are likely one of the reasons that the major auction houses take 30-45 days to pay their consignors after a sale. They want to make sure the buyer doesn't do a credit-card chargeback or some other scheme. I'm sure part of your business model is paying your consignors promptly, but this shows the risks in doing that. Maybe wait a little longer to pay consignors of raw coins, still paying slabbed coins faster. Just some ideas.
You can always buy this crab from one of his auctions...( an eye for an eye)
ebay
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....was this your coin? If so, you are being scammed.
ebay draped bust 1825
<< <i>
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....is this your coin?
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
You, sir, just won. That really better prove intent, though I like the fact that the final price on their listing was less than $1.75 more than mine, even though they disregarded the cleaning completely. Thank you for finding this!
<< <i>I blocked the s.o.b. newbie
You can always buy this crab from one of his auctions...( an eye for an eye)
ebay
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....was this your coin? If so, you are being scammed.
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
YOU ROCK DUDE
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Jeremy, I believe you will win this one.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....was this your coin? If so, you are being scammed.
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
Good job
<< <i>
<< <i>
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....is this your coin?
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
You, sir, just won. That really better prove intent, though I like the fact that the final price on their listing was less than $1.75 more than mine, even though they disregarded the cleaning completely. Thank you for finding this! >>
Sheeze, not only did he resell the coin, he listed it with your picture. I can't imagine he can get away with claiming the picture was that far off if he was willing to use it again.
I also noticed that while he sold the coin last week, he has not received feedback for that auction yet. I wonder if his buyer is claiming the coin is SNAD, and he in turn is trying to pass the buck back to you.
I have to believe you have enough evidence to bury this guy.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Good job OPA!
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
<< <i>What do you do with an eBay buyer who doesn't pay for 6 days. Silver drops $15 and then he finally messages you demanding that you cancel the transaction (so he doesn't get a Non-paying buyer strike) tells you upfront without paying that if you file the complaint that he will pay and return the coin as soon as it arrives? >>
I'd let him pay & return the coin.
edited to add... and make sure you do *everything* by the PayPal book.
<< <i>What do you do with an eBay buyer who doesn't pay for 6 days. Silver drops $15 and then he finally messages you demanding that you cancel the transaction (so he doesn't get a Non-paying buyer strike) tells you upfront without paying that if you file the complaint that he will pay and return the coin as soon as it arrives? >>
Tell eBay what he told you...get them on your side NOW rather than wait for anything to happen. Hopefully he told you that via eBay message or email so that you can file a complaint with eBay.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
How can I speak to a "LIVE" person at eBay?
Last time I tried it has a exercise in furtility
<< <i>I blocked the s.o.b. newbie
You can always buy this crab from one of his auctions...( an eye for an eye)
ebay
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....was this your coin? If so, you are being scammed.
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
Excellent catch. How do you guys do this???
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>How can I speak to a "LIVE" person at eBay? >>
First, kudos to airplanenut & OPA! Nice when the good guys actually win!
Second: Phone number for eBay? Click Customer Support, click Contact Us, click a category, then you should have an option on the right to call during business hours.
<< <i>buyer disregarded your description, took his chances on getting it slabbed and failed to do so (explains the delay in the claim). Please provide user name so those of us that wish can block this bidder. With your feedback, your history and your clear description, paypal will side with you. >>
Hate to post this here but how do you block buyers? I've looked and can't find where I can do that on ebay.
Tempted to buy one of his items, and make it a hassle.
The one reason I prefer doing bussiness on the BST, no BS.
60 purchases, and roughly 12 items sold, with no issues.
Much easier to deal with straight shooters, then the Ebay collector.
Scott
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I believe he sold your coin on 4/30....is this your coin?
ebay draped bust 1825 >>
You, sir, just won. That really better prove intent, though I like the fact that the final price on their listing was less than $1.75 more than mine, even though they disregarded the cleaning completely. Thank you for finding this! >>
Sheeze, not only did he resell the coin, he listed it with your picture. I can't imagine he can get away with claiming the picture was that far off if he was willing to use it again.
I also noticed that while he sold the coin last week, he has not received feedback for that auction yet. I wonder if his buyer is claiming the coin is SNAD, and he in turn is trying to pass the buck back to you.
I have to believe you have enough evidence to bury this guy.
Sean Reynolds >>
That's my guess.
Hate to post this here but how do you block buyers? I've looked and can't find where I can do that on ebay.
You'll find it in the help section:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/manage_bidders_ov.html
Put a coma after each name you are blocking in the list ie: mvrhodes, penquino, etc..
<< <i>You know when crap like this happens and a good seller loses, it is time to go on strike and let PP know that you won't be using their services for X amount of time and link this case and tell them so.
You're assuming he'll lose? Paypal has become much more enlightened. "The seller always loses", if ever true, is now in the past. I predict he will win. Paypal provides a better service than credit cards at a better price. If one hates paypal, they must loathe credit cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>You know when crap like this happens and a good seller loses, it is time to go on strike and let PP know that you won't be using their services for X amount of time and link this case and tell them so.
You're assuming he'll lose? Paypal has become much more enlightened. "The seller always loses", if ever true, is now in the past. I predict he will win. Paypal provides a better service than credit cards at a better price. If one hates paypal, they must loathe credit cards. >>
I guess I shudda worked an if in there somehow. He shouldn't lose, but you never know how PP will rule.
I am glad this dirtbag was "outed". Blocked.
BTW, for those of you who think the buyer always wins a SNAD I can tell you from personal experience it is not true. I was misled about a coin and tried returning it. I blew it by not noticing the "no returns" policy. I wouldn't have stooped to a SNAD but the buyer said he would accept a return for a 60% refund. I had this in writing, FWIW, but ebay didn't care.
Ebay sided with the seller. I deserved losing and the lesson.
Lance.
<< <i>jeremy- the mother has taken her fight to ebay coin chat. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>jeremy- the mother has taken her fight to ebay coin chat. >>
I tried reading their posts on the chat room. Entertaining, in a wierd sort of way, and I'm not not sure If I feel sorry for their situation or empathize with them but they certainly have a story. I couldn't tell if the posts were written by an adult or a child. The posts alternated between both.
Sounds as if they might be a bit off plumb.
Good luck JK.
Don't the eBay terms of service have a user age requirement?
thereby voiding the return possibility
"We have concluded our investigation and have decided in your favor. Any
funds that may have been temporarily held have been returned to your
account."
A note in the claim had this message for the buyer: "After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time. The listing accurately described the item the buyer received."
After posting this thread, I wrote a long response to the claim, touching on every point I could find (it's been a month, positive feedback, the buyer re-sold the item using my photos and a more favorable description than my own, buyer never contacted me, the dispute was turned into a claim instantly so I could never reply to it...) and then had a long chat with someone at PayPal. He actually made me a bit nervous when stating that, because there was no serial number, they couldn't be positive the photo in my listing was the same coin as the one in the buyer's listing. While rare for me, I got a bit angry at the rep for that one, pointing out how idiotic such a stance is (to be fair, he agreed with me, and it seems was just being the messenger).
Either way, long story short, I think this is the first claim I've ever won on PayPal, and while I still don't really trust them, it's nice to know I'm not batting 0%. And again, major kudos to OPA for tracking down the buyer's resale of the item. I'm pretty sure that was really what clinched it.
Jeremy