Sending scrap to Midwest Refineries, UPDATED w/PAYMENT 04-25

Weiss · April 11, 2011 5:42AM

I mentioned earlier that I look for scrap gold and silver everywhere--on the street, at the park, in my vacant apartments and especially during remodels. I've been fortunate to find some pretty good stuff by keeping my eyes peeled. I also dabbled with a little .999 silver jewelry making about 5 years back and of course I kept all of my scraps from that. I finally decided to send my scrap in to Midwest.

Here's a breakdown:

.999 silver 101 grams/31.103 = 3.247 troy ounces pure x $40.25 = $130.69 x 90% = $117.62

.925 silver 36.1 grams/31.103 =1.16 ounces x .925 = 1.073 troy ounces pure x $40.25 = $43.18 x 90%=$38.86

14k and 18k gold 6.3 grams/31.103= .2025 ounces x .583 (to be safe) = .118 troy ounces pure x $1460 = $172.28 x 95%= $163.66

If my calculations are correct (feel free to check them), then I estimate my total at today's spot to be about $324.46. That figured could be off given fluctuations in spot, incorrectly marked pieces, and potentially other metals in my .999 sweepings.

I've asked for the check settlement option. I'll post a response when I receive it!

AUandAG · April 11, 2011 11:02AM

Just keep in mind that sterling is usually not .925 fine. You will be lucky to get .900 fine on most. Just a fact,
and if you are in the jewelry business you will understand. Also, on the gold, you will usually net less in fineness.
Gold that is marked at 14k is generally 13-14k. If it's marked 14kp or 14k pure then it will be .5833 fine.
My recent assay on sterling came in at .901 for 2.6 pounds AV. Quite a bit less than the .925 it was marked!

Keep us posted and let's hope you are spot on!

bob

Weiss · April 11, 2011 11:35AM

<< Just keep in mind that sterling is usually not .925 fine. You will be lucky to get .900 fine on most. Just a fact,
and if you are in the jewelry business you will understand. Also, on the gold, you will usually net less in fineness.
Gold that is marked at 14k is generally 13-14k. If it's marked 14kp or 14k pure then it will be .5833 fine.
My recent assay on sterling came in at .901 for 2.6 pounds AV. Quite a bit less than the .925 it was marked!

Keep us posted and let's hope you are spot on!

bob

>>

Thanks, man. That's what I figured and why I said my values "could be off given fluctuations in spot, incorrectly marked pieces, and potentially other metals in my .999 sweepings." But I knew I had to have some sort of baseline otherwise it's just a shot in the dark.

mkman123 · April 11, 2011 11:37AM

let us know what midwest refinery quotes you. Should be better than any pawn shop or cash for gold places.

cohodk · April 11, 2011 12:05PM

I've dealt with Midwest and did not encounter any problems. I sent them "bad" gold and was pleased with the settlement check I received.

I spoke to them about a 200 oz collection of sterling Franlkin Mint plates and assorted silverware. I would have gotten just a little bit more than selling to my B&M, but the shipping and insurance would have eaten up the additional money. So I sold to my B&M. Expect to get about 82-83% of spot for the sterling.

I'll be interested to know how you did on the gold scrap. Of the 6.3 grams, how much was 14k and 18k?

CaptMorgan · April 11, 2011 1:03PM

Some interesting finds there!

gdavis70 · April 11, 2011 1:49PM

Is it worth selling 90% to a refinery? Any idea what they pay relative to spot?

Weiss · April 11, 2011 1:51PM

<< Is it worth selling 90% to a refinery? Any idea what they pay relative to spot? >>

According to their website, they pay 90% of the value of the pure silver contained in 90% US silver coinage. They don't buy silver clad coins.

gdavis70 · April 11, 2011 1:53PM

hmm, not too compelling then for 90% I guess...

dontippet · April 11, 2011 2:04PM

<< hmm, not too compelling then for 90% I guess... >>

It's not great for normal junk coins, but if you have really a really bad coin here and there, then it works nicely to throw it in with your sterling.

EagleEye · April 11, 2011 2:38PM

If you have slick AG/G Barber dimes, you would do best to sell them where the value is calculated by the face value rather than the weight.

Amigo · April 11, 2011 2:47PM

Another thing you will come to realize is loss. You will loose weight in the melting process, both from burn off of some metals and impossible to have 100% recovery from the pot when it's poured. I always witness the melt at my refinery for various reasons.

On the 2500 oz pot, it's a free floating crucible that is lifted out by hydraulic chain. It doesn't have a pouring spout so that it fits nicely into the oven. I always have to remind him not to pour into the cast with the rear of the crucible hanging over the oven. When he pours, I can see the molten metal run down the underside of the crucible like spilt milk. Some becomes embedded on the outside, sometimes he still ends up allowing it to dump back into the oven, that loss is forever to me. On the 10000 oz pot, it has about a 8" pouring spout, as he has to pour slowly, there is always some hardened on the spout, in addition to the loss in the slag from previous melts from low silver volume materials.

Then there is the loss thru theft. I don't care to elaborate on that one because it would be too time consuming to name all the possible ways. It does happen.

I would also mention that if the assay is less than 90% A.S.W., then the refining costs are higher and therefore payout becomes lower percentage because of the extra cost to refine into pure silver. It is not impossible to have items stamped 'sterling', that actually are not. Especially jewelry. In the end, it amounts to keeping your fingers crossed until you get your mystery payout. I ALWAYS end up with less weight than I take in, I ALWAYS end up with less than 92.5% assay. That's with me witnessing the melt, and getting a part of the same sample for my own fire assay.

I do gold melts as well. The loss in finess is MUCH greater than for sterling.

AUandAG · April 12, 2011 12:51AM

I don't know about your B&M's but mine does not buy Sterling. No way, not even spoons and forks
from known brands. They just won't mess with it as it's too time consuming and the purity is not
easily determined over the counter at the shop. So, I put an ad each month in my very local, what's
going on magazine, and get several calls a month (usually).

I used Midwest for the first time last month and was very pleased. Previously I was using a local
refinery but they no longer accept from the public and only do business with business licensed folks.
I'm not in that class and even though I have a history with them I was cut off. It's okay and I do
understand why they implemented this rule. Every John Q Public was showing up at their door lately.

Here is a pic of my Midwest settlement for those that wonder and have not done it before:

Check them out online for all the information you need to supply when submitting metals.

bob

cohodk · April 12, 2011 1:14AM

<< I don't know about your B&M's but mine does not buy Sterling. No way, not even spoons and forks
from known brands. They just won't mess with it as it's too time consuming and the purity is not
easily determined over the counter at the shop. So, I put an ad each month in my very local, what's
going on magazine, and get several calls a month (usually).

I used Midwest for the first time last month and was very pleased. Previously I was using a local
refinery but they no longer accept from the public and only do business with business licensed folks.
I'm not in that class and even though I have a history with them I was cut off. It's okay and I do
understand why they implemented this rule. Every John Q Public was showing up at their door lately.

Here is a pic of my Midwest settlement for those that wonder and have not done it before:

Check them out online for all the information you need to supply when submitting metals.

bob

>>

?----Weight after melt would be the weight after the impurities are taken out--slag skimmed off the top? What is left is then silver? But then why is it only assayed at 90%? Are there still other metals in the silver than cannot be removed from from a simple melt and this needs to be refined further?

Just commenting as I see many sellers on the BST selling sterling by simply taking the total weight and multiplying by .925. They think this is the amount of silver and are asking this amount x spot. In your example, 31.815 oz times .925 would be 29.42 oz. Using numbers in your case the seller might be asking $1125 (29.42 x $38.25). This is a far cry from the $950 you received. I think its important for people to realize that their sterling is only worth 75-80% of total weight. Not the 92.5% commonly asked. More simply stated, people should realize that sterling is not 92.5%, but closer to 75%.

AUandAG · April 12, 2011 1:29AM

?----Weight after melt would be the weight after the impurities are taken out--slag skimmed off the top? What is left is then silver? But then why is it only assayed at 90%? Are there still other metals in the silver than cannot be removed from from a simple melt and this needs to be refined further?

Yes, 90% silver not 92.5% silver. My submission was all hallmarked and stamped STERLING SILVER. I wanted
to see what exactly Midwest does and am pleased. I was rather surprised and happy that it was 90% and not
less. Your 75% figure is low.

bob

SportsModerator · April 12, 2011 1:38AM

I have used Midwest for years. Fast, fair, and straightforward.

storm888 · April 12, 2011 6:02AM

<< I have used Midwest for years. Fast, fair, and straightforward. >>

////////////////

Yup.

Tho, some towns/cities have outfits that pay only a little
bit less, and folks can avoid the shipping/waiting game.

As the price of equipment to perform XRAY FLUORESCENT SPECTROMETRY
comes down, more and more metal-buyers will acquire the gadgets.

They will be able to immediately melt the metals you want to sell, throw the
resulting pile in the machine, and pay you a price that is very close to what
the big smelters now pay.

The machines can also examine single or multiple unmelted items.

gizmo

The whole process takes just a few minutes. Sellers are in and out fast; limited
only by the number of workers at the buying locations.

.

66Tbird · April 12, 2011 8:07AM

I had great payout with Midwest when I cashed in fine placer. I knew it assayed at .92 gold- .04 silver. I had the 30 year old reports in hand. Back in the day I could go local and that report was all I needed. Fast forward twenty years and that report means nothing and the best quote I got was 40% of spot from a B&M. Midwest did 95% and it was quick enough. They all get all the rest of my scrap.

Weiss · April 25, 2011 5:39AM

Ok, so this morning the check was sitting in my PO Box.

My original estimates: about $324.46.

Midwest's settlement: $309

A difference of $15.46 or about 4.5%--not at all unreasonable, in my opinion, considering the scrap was such a wide variety of marked pieces.

Positives on my first experience with Midwest:
No hassle, just box and ship
Payment well within my margin of comfort

Negatives:
No communication. I got insurance but no tracking, Midwest never emailed to tell me my package arrived.
Turn-around a little slower than I anticipated--about 2 weeks start to finish.

Both of the negatives are pretty minor. I could have gotten package tracking (and probably should have). And I imagine refiners are working around the clock right now to process shipments like mine, so a slightly longer lag time should be expected.

Would I deal with them again? Absolutely. 100% satisfied with my first refinery shipment. Now I just wish I'd picked the settlement to be in silver bullion instead of this worthless paper

guitarwes · April 25, 2011 5:50AM

nevermind, was looking at the wrong figures.

glad you had a good experience.

AUandAG · April 25, 2011 10:57AM

Good job!

bob

Sending scrap to Midwest Refineries, UPDATED w/PAYMENT 04-25

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