Grade Opinion on my Bust Dime (Poll)

STONE · March 21, 2011 6:16AM

I have a love/hate relationship with 1809 Bust Dimes.
I love how difficult these are to find in nice, original condition, but I hate that grading these is so difficult and IMO inconsistent!
The strikes on these are rarely equal between the obverse and reverse, which also makes grading difficult!

To get to the chase, here is an 1809 Dime I am having trouble putting a grade on and I want this forum's assistance.

For comparison's sake, here's Dimeman's 1809 in PCGS VF-35

MikeInFL · March 21, 2011 6:21AM

I graded your coin a 20.

The 35 coin has luster.

DIMEMAN · March 21, 2011 6:22AM

I gave it a 25 because the rev. is so strong.

STONE · March 21, 2011 6:26AM

Dimeman's piece was strictly added for posterity.
I would add other graded 1809's if I wasn't so lazy

roadrunner · March 21, 2011 6:29AM

I'd go VF30 because it is close to a twin to the other coin, other than the luster. But without the other coin for comparision I probably
would have been at 20/25.

roadrunner

guitarwes · March 21, 2011 6:32AM

I gave it a 20 net grade for the weaker obv and the small scratch. Difficult coin to nail down a grade for me though since the rev is nice.

RichieURich · March 21, 2011 6:40AM

Obverse VF-20 / Reverse VF-30. Possibly slabbable, worth a shot, especially since most 1809 dimes are nowhere near slabbable.

Edited to add: I like both coins, especially Dimeman's!

16DMERC · March 21, 2011 6:43AM

Difficult to gade. The reverse is VF quality, while the Obverse is F quality, mainly based on the lack of detail in the curls, that do not have VF characteristics. I would give it an F15

llafoe · March 21, 2011 7:03AM

I think you should sell it to the member that graded it EF45 and then buy another 09 dime.

BillJones · March 21, 2011 7:03AM

I graded you coin as a VF-20. Yes, the reverse is strong, but the obverse determines most of the grade and there you have a lot of wear plus what appears to be a scratch from the third star to Ms. Liberty's neck.

BTW I'm not all that impressed with Dimeman's coin as a VF-35. To me a VF-35 should be a coin where there is a debate as to whether or not it is an EF. I don't seen any debate on that coin. It's a VF, and I'd call it a VF-25 or 30. I'd have to see it in person to decide how much weakness is due to strike and how much is due to wear. The coin has lots of wear, and really does not come close to EF IMO. Rarity does not raise the grade.

STONE · March 21, 2011 7:07AM

<< Difficult to gade. The reverse is VF quality, while the Obverse is F quality, mainly based on the lack of detail in the curls, that do not have VF characteristics. I would give it an F15 >>

That was my exact thinking

It is interesting to see the vast range of grade opinions so far, but I am also happy to see that 1 or 2 grades are semi-unanimous!
My experience and conservative opinion was F-15

DoubleEagle59 · March 21, 2011 7:07AM

I gave it a 25 but I really don't have much experience with these early dimes.

Moldnut · March 21, 2011 7:14AM

I also think the TPG over grade these dimes. To me yours is no higher than VF20. My coin, that you can see on CoinFacts as a VG8, I think should be graded Good.

Billet7 · March 21, 2011 7:15AM

I think 15 all day long, shot at 20, but since it's the obverse that's weak, I say they stick it to you at a 15.

It will easily holder IMHO. Anyone who keeps it out of a holder should have their head examined

Strange that you did a thread about an 1809 dime. Just the other day I found an AG-G coin at the coin shop...I was blown away, I never thought I would see one in my local coin shop...and it's SUPER original. In my haste I almost ripped my money in half trying to get the dealer the $67.50 he wanted for it!!! Made my day!

Edited to add...I really don't think luster has anything to do with the grade of either coin.

keyman64 · March 21, 2011 7:44AM

I guessed 25.

Baley · March 21, 2011 7:44AM

Nothing better than a bell-curve!

VF-22

DennisH · March 21, 2011 8:06AM

I graded it VG10 because the rims are not complete on either side and the obverse scratch is just distracting enough to my eye. That seems pretty darn harsh considering how much detail it has overall, but it's what I'm going with.

I also don't know squat about grading Bust anything.

BaseballAbs · March 21, 2011 8:34AM

I don't think Dimeman's coin is a VF35 that reverse is much too weak. At first glance my oppinion was solid 20 on yours Stone. I would have graded it higher if not for the light scratches, but because of Dimeman's which i really don't like the fact that you put it up next to yours because it makes me want to change my opinion to a higher grade to a 25.

I would like to see the rim more clear on Dimeman's. In hand I may go with a 30, but I think PCGS is off.

RedneckHB · March 21, 2011 8:51AM

I graded yours vf20 and Dimemans vf25.

USMoneylover · March 21, 2011 10:09AM

I voted F15, but definitely a shot at vf20.... If there was an AVF18 (Almost very fine) that would have been my grade

Great coin!

STONE · March 21, 2011 11:21AM

Well, I am going to make one final statement on this thread.

I purposely threw in Dimemans's 1809 because I think the details don't merit the numerical grade, and thus I presented a good bit of bias into the grade determination of my coin from several of the forum members who voted. If I presented a VG or Fine coin from either TPG in conjunction with my example I don't think the guesses would be as generous as I feel they have been. It really comes down to being familiar with this coin and date, and knowing the various striking inconsistencies it can have. In fact, if you go to Heritage and see some of the VG's, F's and VF's there, my coin will look closest to a F-15, although the wear pattern on my coin is somewhat unusual and uneven.

I would equate the TPG grading of this Date/Denomination to that of the 1815 Bust Quarter. Many of the collectors on this board who collect Bust Quarters will tell you that PCGS and NGC are all over the board with this coin, and a couple of the posts here prove it very definitively.

To clarify:
The "scratch" on the obverse which a couple of you pointed out is hardly noticable and will never be a cause for this coin to BAG at a TPG.

DIMEMAN · March 21, 2011 12:10PM

Boy, I'm glad I had PCGS grade my 1809 and not this bunch. I think they (PCGS) realize you don't grade an early bust dime the same way you would grade a Mercury dime.

I think my 1809 is graded correctly based on several things including the strong detail on Miss Liberty and the nice surfaces on both sides.

robkool · March 21, 2011 5:31PM

VF25... Grades on these tend to be more liberal due to weak striking.

UncleJoe · March 21, 2011 9:26PM

<< I graded you coin as a VF-20. Yes, the reverse is strong, but the obverse determines most of the grade and there you have a lot of wear plus what appears to be a scratch from the third star to Ms. Liberty's neck.

BTW I'm not all that impressed with Dimeman's coin as a VF-35. To me a VF-35 should be a coin where there is a debate as to whether or not it is an EF. I don't seen any debate on that coin. It's a VF, and I'd call it a VF-25 or 30. I'd have to see it in person to decide how much weakness is due to strike and how much is due to wear. The coin has lots of wear, and really does not come close to EF IMO. Rarity does not raise the grade. >>

+1

Exactly what I was thinking and then I saw that it was written already.

Joe.

MFH · March 22, 2011 2:09AM

I agree that your Dime is 5 points lower than Dimeman's.
I don't feel that his coin is a 35. More like a 25. JMHO.

coolest · March 22, 2011 4:52AM

Any more rim wear on Dimemans coin and I would have to grade it G6, as per PCGS standards.

llafoe · March 22, 2011 4:57AM

I was one of the first 3 to vote, so I wasn't swayed by all the verbiage... I voted F12. After you submit it; if you receive an F12, do I win this coin?

STONE · March 22, 2011 5:09AM

<< I was one of the first 3 to vote, so I wasn't swayed by all the verbiage... I voted F12. After you submit it; if you receive an F12, do I win this coin?

>>

If you can find me a nice 1811 I will think about it

BaseballAbs · March 22, 2011 5:16AM

<< Well, I am going to make one final statement on this thread.

I purposely threw in Dimemans's 1809 because I think the details don't merit the numerical grade, and thus I presented a good bit of bias into the grade determination of my coin from several of the forum members who voted. If I presented a VG or Fine coin from either TPG in conjunction with my example I don't think the guesses would be as generous as I feel they have been. It really comes down to being familiar with this coin and date, and knowing the various striking inconsistencies it can have. In fact, if you go to Heritage and see some of the VG's, F's and VF's there, my coin will look closest to a F-15, although the wear pattern on my coin is somewhat unusual and uneven.

I would equate the TPG grading of this Date/Denomination to that of the 1815 Bust Quarter. Many of the collectors on this board who collect Bust Quarters will tell you that PCGS and NGC are all over the board with this coin, and a couple of the posts here prove it very definitively.

Speaking of the 1815 quarter being all over the place I have noticed many of the 1822 quarters with the same consistency, all over the place.

llafoe · March 22, 2011 5:18AM

<< 

<< I was one of the first 3 to vote, so I wasn't swayed by all the verbiage... I voted F12. After you submit it; if you receive an F12, do I win this coin?

>>

If you can find me a nice 1811 I will think about it

>>

I will find you a nice RAW 1811 Barber dime... give me a day or two!

rkp · March 26, 2011 3:05AM

SamByrd · March 26, 2011 5:03AM

what a good post this is, The discussion about the grade specifics are very insightful. I myself look at the coin as a VF20. One can not buy the coin for VF 20 money though as it is far better then most for the grade. Bill Jones offered very good observations on the coin as well in my opinion.

Grade Opinion on my Bust Dime (Poll)

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